Thinkpads Forum

I have read the threads over the last few years but I thought I would revisit the topic and ask if anybody has actually succeeded in watching movies on an external monitor or HDTV attached to the X61 or X61T. (Either streaming or DVD/Blu-Ray.)

If you have succeeded in doing it please tell us how, including name brand/model of monitor/HDTV, connector(s), etc., regardless of cost.

I have two X61 2.4GHz 8Gb RAM 750Gb Seagate Hybrid running W7 64-bit plus dock. And two X61T 1.8GHz with the same configuration and dock at different locations but basically doing the same things.

I have a partial answer for you on this, I think. I've got a very similar config on my main X61T (1.8GHz 750GB Seagate Momentus XT, 4GB RAM, Win 7 64-bit, plus dock).

When docked, it is connected to two monitors, one is an ancient LaCie electron22blue III (a high end 22" CRT), and one is a Dell 2007FP (a 20" IPS LCD with max res 1600x1200). The CRT is connected via a VGA cable. The LCD is connected via one of those Lenovo USB-DVI adapters.

I don't play Blu-Ray discs yet, but I have some experience with a range of MP4 and AVI files in a variety of codecs and resolutions up to HD. I found that the laptop would often stutter when I tried to play a 1080p video. 720p and lower were usually fine. Some videos were worse than others, which I assumed was due to different codecs and frame rates.

I've since installed a Broadcom Crystal HD PCI card (model BCM970012) where the WWAN card was originally installed, and that has considerably improved playback. Not perfect, but very good, including with full HD 1080p MP4 and AVI files. I have an identical X61T that I intend to use as a media player. In that second machine I'm going to install the slightly better Broadcom Crystal HD model BCM970015. And I'm going to try running the XBMC media player software on it. The key info about the two Broadcom cards and about which one supposedly works better with XBMC is available here:
http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Br ... ystal%20HD

More info from Broadcom about the BCM70012/BCM970012:
http://www.broadcom.com/products/Consum ... s/BCM70012

I got my BCM970012 for about $10 from Hong Kong or somewhere via eBay. The BCM970015 was around $40, also from Hong Kong or China via eBay.

Currently, I'm still running an old 36" standard def Sony Trinitron TV (top of the line, in its day). When I move to a 1080p LCD, I'm planning on getting one with a VGA input and am hoping I'll be able to run full true HD through that, though I assume I'll lose something in the transfer from VGA to digital. I'm hoping to have the XBMC media player running in the next couple weeks, but it will be outputting to my old standard def, so anything 1080p will be downsampled to standard TV def.

Phil.

pkiff's explanation is excellent. I am a bit surprised to learn that the 1.8GHz X61T would stutter with 1080p content, but I guess there is just some very heavy 1080p out there. It might depend a lot on the decoder. Back in the day when I tested 1080p, I found CoreAVC to be the champion of performance, bringing *some* HD 1080p capabilities even to "ancient" systems such as a P4-HT 3GHz. But a lot have changed this then with ffmpeg-mt coming around with its multi-threading support as well.

I haven't tried the Crystal HD cards myself, but it's good to know they can improve decoding performance and it's great that the X61 series has that WWAN slot to utilize them.

Unfortunately, the architecture of the X6x series imposes some serious limitations on digital video output to an external LCD. It's basically impossible. USB2-to-video adapters like pkiff's can get some basic signal out, and thus be useful for multi-monitor setups for office use. They will not, however, be able to provide the smooth performance needed for video or gaming at high resolution, because USB2 just does not have the bandwidth, not even close.

The lack of an ExpressCard slot makes it impossible to connect any reasonable external GPUs, or USB3 cards and USB3-to-video adapters (which would provide improved performance). The dock has no digital video out, and the X6x series is not compatible with the T6x docks.

So the only reliable way to output a consistent smooth HD signal from the X6x is the good old VGA port. Of course, VGA does not transmit audio, so it will have to be routed separately out of the speaker jack.

Therefore, make sure to get an HDTV that:
(1) has a VGA input
(2) has settings to adjust VGA timings (clock, phase, whatever), either automatically or manually (otherwise one might get an offset or cut picture)
(3) has a 3.5mm input jack to receive audio when VGA is used for video

Fortunately, the vast majority of high-end and middle range televisions will have all said features.

dr_st wrote:I am a bit surprised to learn that the 1.8GHz X61T would stutter with 1080p content, but I guess there is just some very heavy 1080p out there. It might depend a lot on the decoder.

Well, the mobile intel 965 chip in the X61T doesn't have a built-in hardware decoder for standard 1080p blu-ray video content, it only has one for MPEG 2 (DVDs), so the X61Tt has to do everything brute force in software. Full HD with sound requires a pretty powerful CPU to decode on the fly I think. Maybe at least 2 or 3 GHz?

dr_st wrote:USB2-to-video adapters like pkiff's can get some basic signal out, and thus be useful for multi-monitor setups for office use. They will not, however, be able to provide the smooth performance needed for video or gaming at high resolution, because USB2 just does not have the bandwidth, not even close.

Yes, dr_st is sure right about that. I should have noted that you can't play smooth video at any resolution through that cable. But it is great for displaying email, PDFs, or other static docs in a multi-monitor setup

dr_st wrote:Therefore, make sure to get an HDTV that:
(3) has a 3.5mm input jack to receive audio when VGA is used for video

I've got another alternative here, if you want to continue to try to push your system. I've got a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 box that connects via USB 2. Currently, I'm using it with my T60p, but I intend to test it out with my X61T media center and to pick up another for my T60p if necessary. I have found that there is too much noise when you run anything through the headphone/out jack in the X61T dock. Or the T60p Advanced Mini dock for that matter. Indeed, I've found that problem with every dock for every Thinkpad I've owned. Sound through the Creative SB X-Fi is clean and clear and pure:
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/multimedi ... 51-p1.html

Needless to say, there are better base system options than an X61T if you want to build a media center, especially if you want one with good digital out capabilities which as dr_st points out, are non-existent in the Thinkpad X6x series.

Phil.

You both are good people. Thank you for the time you spent sharing your knowledge. If and when you move to the next video/media level with your X61 or X61T please post your results. In the interim I will look into both your suggestions.

One part of my standard PC benchmark is to play video files of various resolutions and encodings to gauge the system's performance. I do this to most laptops and desktops I work on, my X61 2.1GHz included.

Because I've played those videos so many times on different machines, I have a fair idea of how much CPU power is needed for each video in my test collection, and what video player software works best for them.

DVD resolution H.264 video is easy-- even a Thinkpad T4x series with 1.7GHz Pentium M will play it with no problem.

720p video is the next step, and from my tests, a 1.6GHz Core 2 Duo is more than enough.

1080p (Full HD) is another matter though. As pkiff has said, without video decoding hardware like the Broadcom Crystal HD, it's a purely CPU-bound process.

The most CPU-intensive video in my test collection is a one and a half minute 1920x1080 video encoded in H.264 High 10 Profile @ 19.5 mbps, with styled subtitles. This results in a file size of 221 megabytes for a 1:30 video.

It's more demanding than normal 20 mbps H.264 video since the High 10 Profile encoding requires around 30% more CPU power compared to High Profile (which Blu-ray uses). But don't worry since High 10 Profile is used mostly by anime fansubbing groups and pretty much no one else.

This particular video plays well, but maybe not perfect, in my 2.1GHz X61 connected to a 1440x900 19.1 inch LCD monitor via VGA. It also doesn't play as smoothly in my aunt's 1.83GHz X60.

I use Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) with LAV codecs and xy-vsfilter (subtitle renderer) on Windows, and Mplayer2 on Linux. Windows and MPC-HC have an advantage due to the subtitle renderer being much faster (and can use multiple CPU cores) than Mplayer2. VLC is not good since it uses the same subtitle renderer as Mplayer2

In short:

If your videos are much more than 150MB per minute, you'll probably need that Broadcom card.
If it's below 150MB per minute, it's highly likely that your 2.4GHz X61 can handle it.
If it's less than 100MB per minute, your 1.8GHz X61T can handle it.

axur-delmeria (and others): Thank you for posting. I believe this was covered above, but what would be the best way to connect my X61 2.4GHz to what type of monitor to play movies?

I assume that VGA is the only way, but I want to check for understanding. I.E., is there a box to put in the middle between the laptop and the monitor, etc.?

VGA is the only video output available to the entire X60/X61 family. Period.

Most if not all LCD monitors have VGA input. Just use a VGA cable. No converters needed.

As for HDTVs, it depends on whether the particular model has VGA input or not. If you already have an HDTV at home, just read the manual or look at the back if the VGA connector is present.

If you don't have an HDTV yet, browse the catalogs, read review articles, ask around so you can get one with good VGA input, because our LCD TV at home can support up to 1680x1050 with the HDMI connection, but only up to 1366x768 when connected via VGA.

is there a box to put in the middle between the laptop and the monitor, etc.?

You only need one if your HDTV doesn't have VGA input.

HDMI input is standard on new HDTVs, while slightly-older ones have DVI -- you could use a VGA to HDMI/DVI converter box. However, better do your homework (read reviews, forums, etc.) because some VGA to HDMI/DVI converters are better than others.

If your HDTV is an older one (usually before 2004) without HDMI or DVI input, check the manual if it supports RGB component input. If yes, you might be able to make it work with a VGA to RGB component cable. I can't find any successful report from the forums though.

But if the manual says YCbCr or YPbPr component input, you're going to need a VGA to YCbCr/YPbPr component video converter box. Like the VGA to HDMI/DVI converter, some converters are crappy while some are better.

If your HDTV only has S-video or Composite input, don't bother with a converter box because the video quality is very poor compared to VGA. Just replace the TV.

Don't have the TV's yet. So I will look for the best VGA inputs out there. Thanks, again.

In case anyone has time, money, and spirit for experimentation, I encountered these unusual cards while searching for a true DVI output solution for my X61:

MPX-750 Mini-PCIe card with DVI and VGA output http://www.commell.com.tw/Product/Perip ... PX-750.HTM
Manual here: http://www.commell.com.tw/Download/Manu ... al_V10.pdf


MPX-SDVOD Mini-PCIe card with DVI output http://www.commell.com.tw/Product/Perip ... -SDVOD.HTM

It will plug into the second Mini-PCIe slot (where the useless Turbo Memory card is supposed to be) but the challenge is how and where to run the cable inside the confines of the X61 chassis.
Sacrificing the RJ-11 modem port seems like a good idea.

Would either fit in the dock?
And which is better, DVI or VGA?

Would either fit in the dock?

The cards don't go in the dock.
They go inside the X61 itself. on the slot beside the wifi card.

There's a cable that plugs into that card, and at the other end of that cable is the DVI port.

The questions:
1. Will the card work at all?

2. Is there enough space for the cable? It's almost certain that there's no space for the DVI port without sacrificing the Cardbus slot or the hard drive, and the modem port may be too confining.

And which is better, DVI or VGA?

DVI is better. Allow me to provide a rather long-winded explanation:

Computers are digital devices, while VGA is an old video standard that uses analog signals.

The video card must perform a Digital to Analog conversion to send the video signal to the monitor. It was OK at the time because CRT monitors are analog devices.

But since an LCD monitor is a digital device, the analog VGA signal must be converted back to digital inside the monitor. This is where the problem lies.

The conversion from Digital to Analog then back to Digital results in degradation of the video. Remember what I said about some HDTVs can have poor VGA input? This is the reason.
A combination of cheap VGA cables, poor filtering and processing in the analog to digital conversion inside the monitor (or converter box) will result in a less-than-stellar display.

The solution is to switch to a purely digital connection between the computer and the monitor-- that's where DVI comes in.

axur-delmeria and others:

Obviously trying first would be best before permanently installing the DVI port.
Assuming some HDTV's do in fact come with DVI input ports, are there variations in DVI quality among tv mfgs? If so, can you recommend a mfg or advise what to look for in my research?

Then if it worked, is the DVI output port the same physical dimension as the oem VGA output port on the left side of the laptop (X61) and could the DVI simply be installed in place of the VGA output port?

DVI and HDMI are electrically compatible, so only a passive adapter (no electronics) is needed to convert a DVI port into an HDMI port.

Such an adapter looks like this: http://www.monoprice.com/products/produ ... 1&format=2

Take note that audio can't be sent to the HDTV from a DVI to HDMI adapter.

While HDMI can carry both audio and video on the same cable, the DVI is a video only port.
The audio has to be run through the headphone/speaker jack.

Obviously trying first would be best before permanently installing the DVI port.

Of course. There's actually no guarantee that the card will work on the X61. That's why I mentioned the "spirit of experimentation".

Then if it worked, is the DVI output port the same physical dimension as the oem VGA output port on the left side of the laptop (X61) and could the DVI simply be installed in place of the VGA output port?

DVI port is physically larger than the VGA port so you can't replace it. See here: http://codinghorror.typepad.com/.a/6a01 ... 15a970b-pi

Besides, keeping the VGA port will allow for triple display setup: X61 LCD + VGA monitor + DVI monitor.

There's no space on the X61 for a DVI port without compromises.

One way is to snake the cable out of the laptop and let the DVI port dangle like a tail.
Another way is to sacrifice the cardbus slot, but the DVI port will stick stick out.

are there variations in DVI quality among tv mfgs?

No such variations exist. Period.

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned DVI at all. You're only getting confused with all this.

Stick to researching the quality of VGA inputs of HDTVs, and ignore any mention of DVI unless you want to taken on that experiment.

axur-delmeria: Your explanations are golden. It is true that I check for understanding by asking questions which expose my ignorance.* But because I do, I generally learn from masters like you and others rather quickly. So, no, you were correct to mention DVI. And yes, I believe in doing the experiment just as Dr. Bill Wattenburg extolls. So no worries and no negative repercussions.

* I like telling the story about a group exam when in response to my question the examiner said, "Remember, Tim there are no stupid questions, only stupid people asking questions." Everybody laughed but me...

But I passed the exam and went on to pass others, and that particular examiner is great fun and he and I have mutual respect for each other.

When I (or maybe someone else who has been helped by this thread) do the experiment, we will post the results.

Thanks for all your help. It is appreciated.

axur-delmeria wrote:While HDMI can carry both audio and video on the same cable, the DVI is a video only port.

Strictly speaking, that's not true. DVI and HDMI carry the exact same electrical signal on the exact same pins. There are no special pins for audio on HDMI - it uses the same data pins. Which means that if someone was to encode audio as part of the signal, it would run fine through any DVI cable and DVI connector.

The questions are - does the output device send this audio signal, and does the input device know how to process it.

When HDMI was defined, audio was included as a mandatory part of the spec. With DVI that was not the case. Therefore, most video cards do not output audio over DVI (some of the newer ones do), and most or all of the DVI-equipped monitors are not built to process audio over that interface. But there's nothing impossible in it.