Hooray, i've made it,....T9300... *16KB PIC*

[FryPpy]

Maybe this post for separate thread...

When i have searched for X61 with penryn i have digged tonns of info and make this table FRU numbers of penryn motherboards for X6:
42W7858, 43Y9000, 60Y4010 - Т8100
42W7860, 43Y9002, 60Y4012 - Т8300
42W7862, 43Y9004, 60Y4014 - Т9300
All 3 motherboards exists in 3 reincarnations. I belive that 42Wxxxx was the initial mother board and Y - was updated. I don't know what updates where made to these motherboards. Once i know: that such update 42W -> 43Y was made in T61 non-penryn motherboards when nvidia bug was fixed.

And my $0.02 to the war 4:3 vs wide format. Yes classic keyboard is a BIG advantage of X2xx. But in X6x tablet 4:3 is the best aspect ratio for reading e-books. Industry makes wide screens for movies (to hide black gaps above an below picture), but books still printed on classical paper. And when i read scanned classical books it is best viewed on 3:4 (tablet mode) screen (with minimal black gaps above and below white page).

And other thing. With the fixed diagonal size wider screen have less visible area. And i (we) want more visible area to see more letters of text. Higher resolution can accomodate more text, but the letters become smaller and harder to see (for me).
For example
X6x visible area is 245.8mm x 184.3mm = 45300.9 mm^2
X20x visible area is 261.1mm x 163.2mm = 42611.5 mm^2
And if one divide this screen for 2 documents placed side by side - visible area for text become very small.

[Cigarguy]

^^^ LOL, that's a pretty technical debate on 16:10, or worse 16:9 and 4:3.

I get what you are saying and agree. But the biggest factor is my eyes. Of the 16+ laptops that I have only the X61T, T42 and T60 are 4:3. At any one time my favourite laptop to use is one with a 4:3 screen size with the occasional 16:10 mixed in for diversity. My 16:9 T420 and Elitebook 8470w hardly get used much even though these two combined costs more than all the rest.

[Medessec]

Very interesting research on the X6x laptop motherboards.

As for the screen aspect ratio, I fully agree that for everything except movies, such as web browsing, productivity, multimedia production, file navigation, text editing... pretty much everything that we use computers for primarily, 4:3 is the better aspect ratio, hands down. Widescreen "works", and that's why some will claim that it's better, but for what you use your computer for 95% of the time... you don't need to have the top and bottom bits of your monitor chopped off.

The main reason widescreen was adopted, the MAIN reason, is what hurts me the most inside. Because the media world adopted widescreen, LCD panels made in widescreen became a lot cheaper to make. Laptop/Monitor manufacturers noticed this, and swept on it, triggering the eventual exclusivity and eventual fiscal impracticality of the 4:3 and other productivity aspect ratios. We can't fight it because the only people complaining is us, the masses won't mind, and the frontline market glorifies widescreen as a multimedia advantage for the monitor or laptop in question. I talk to numerous classmates and older people around, and they all grumble under their breath that they still loathe the complete disappearance of 4:3 laptop computers.

But it's absolutely ridiculous. The SXGA+ X60/61 Tablet's resolution is 1400x1050, and that's more screen estate in BOTH dimensions, than the 1366x768 X220 Tablet's resolution. It's insane.

[PandorasThinkpad]

Hello Fryppy!

Thanx a lot for sharing this informations to us!

My personal opinion, depending on displays, is, i even like the 4:3 much more than any other format, this is quite fact for me.

I have an T23 to watch movies, this has the resolution of 1024x768 an this quite enough to watch movies with.


For now i like this X61-T9300 very well, it is fast and small, i have an mint13 in 64 bit working on it. The best fan for it should be the one with FRU 42X3805 .




Greets,

PT

[E350]

PT: Congratulations on your T9300!

My two X61 are T8300 at 2.40GHz running W7 64-bit with 8GB RAM and Seagate Hybrid HD.

I have always been intrigued by the T9300 but I always thought that the only difference was the .10GHz faster CPU speed (2.50GHz with the T9300). So, if there are other differences / capabilities would you mind listing them? I would really like to know the difference.

FryPpy, PT, axur-delmeria and other X61 T9300 Aficionados: Can I assume that 60Y4014 is the best motherboard for a X61 T9300?
And what is the NVIDIA "bug" that was fixed with what motherboard?

FYI, since I read for a living, 4:3 aspect all the way baby!

[FryPpy]

So, if there are other differences / capabilities would you mind listing them? I would really like to know the difference.

T8xxx is a Penryn 3M series CPUs with a half of cache (3Mb), while T9xxx is a full featured Penryn CPUs (6Mb cache).

FryPpy, PT, axur-delmeria and other X61 T9300 Aficionados: Can I assume that 60Y4014 is the best motherboard for a X61 T9300?

I don't know why Lenovo makes 2 upgrades (bugfixes) to X61 mainboards. I don't have T9300 too (i'm stuck at T8300, but it is working well for me).
I don't know if the 43Y9004 was made prior to 60Y4014.

And what is the NVIDIA "bug" that was fixed with what motherboard?

This is infamous problem plagued T61 series thinkpads. But X61 haven't nvidia GPU and not affected by this bug.

[E350]

42W7862 43Y9004 and 60Y4014 motherboards are on ebay with more purchasers of the latter model number which is also described as "SLAZB."

What is "SLAZB" ?

T9300 is:

http://ark.intel.com/products/33917/Int ... SB?q=T9300

T8300 is:

http://ark.intel.com/products/33099/Int ... SB?q=t8300

Only difference between the two that I see is T8300 has 3MB L2cache while T9300 has 6MB L2cache.

From wisegeek:


"Level 2 or L2 cache is part of a multi-level storage strategy for improving computer performance. The present model uses up to three levels of cache, termed L1, L2 and L3, each bridging the gap between the very fast computer processing unit (CPU) and the much slower random access memory (RAM). While the design is evolving, L1 cache is most often built into the CPU, while L2 cache has typically been built into the motherboard (along with L3 cache, when present). However, some CPUs now incorporate L2 cache as well as L1 cache, and a few even incorporate L3 cache.

The job of CPU cache is to anticipate data requests, so that when the user clicks on a frequently used program, for example, the instructions required to run that program are at the ready, stored in cache. When this happens, the CPU can process the request without delay, drastically improving computer performance. The CPU will check L1 cache first, followed by L2 and L3 cache. If it finds the needed bits of data, this is a cache hit, but if the cache doesn’t anticipate the request, the CPU gets a cache miss, and the data must be pulled from slower RAM or the hard drive which is slower still."

Question: Does anyone with the T9300 notice any difference having twice the L2cache over the T8300?

Inquiring minds want to know...

FryPpy: Thanks.

[FryPpy]

What is "SLAZB" ?

It is processor "S-Spec". You can see it in intell's site (check right column from your link).

Question: Does anyone with the T9300 notice any difference having twice the L2cache over the T8300?

We can run SuperPi and check results.

But "Inquiring minds MUST to know"... bigger cache is good for longterm computation tasks. Like audio / video encoding, 3D rendering (using CPU), working with big databases. It is useless for bunch of small tasks which occupy CPU for a couple of ticks and leave (office + web-browser + audio player in background). Modern OS and our multitasking habbits makes big caches useless.
You can grab info for new intel core-i CPUs and may notice - they have less cache (4Mb for 2 cores and 6/8Mb for 4 Cores) then our Penryn C2D (C2Q - up to 12Mb Only old Xeons have bigger caches - eg 16Mb for 2core.

[E350]

Hmmm... Sounds like the same solution that hard drive makers are employing, putting flash on a mechanical drive (Seagate) pairing a smaller SSD with a mechanical drive (WD Black2). So cache sits between the hard drive and the CPU and anticipates regularly used commands. Probably faster than flash-or-SSD/mechanical drive pairing but doesn't seem to warrant the expense of a $250 motherboard to me.

But PT we (I at least) want to hear about your real world experience. It is fun to get new gear!

[John H]

mmm no wonder why the 's' model is declared rare and sought after

The "s" models are not rare per se. Only the ones with WXGA+

IIRC X201s with such a screen are really rare, while the X200s with WXGA+ were a little bit more common. I'm with RBS that these are the best X-series you can get, the generations post X201 stick to "just" 1366x768

I LOVE having 2 X60s machines going. Instead of opening a new window I just open a new laptop!

So I'm considering a third X60s. But maybe I should get a used X200s or X201s. They're avaiilable for less than a Chromebook or iPad or whatever. 4x3 screen is OK with me. I don't need widescreen altho I can make good use of widescreen on the T60 or T520 when I use one.

Any suggestions? Any offers?

[RealBlackStuff]

I have a very nice Frankenpad X601sF for sale.
It's an X60s chassis with the motherboard from an X61s.

So it has these specs from the:
X61s (7666-3EU)
L7500(1.6GHz) CPU, RAM and HD to be discussed, 12.1in 1024x768 LCD, Intel X3100, Intel wifi, Bluetooth, Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, 8c Li-Ion, WinXP Pro
with the additional WWAN from the original X60s (1702-A11).
This Frankie can use up to 8GB RAM (with a 64-bit OS)!
And the 8-cell battery is good for up to 5 hours.
It also has the Middleton BIOS with Slic2.1, SATA-II speed and whitelist removed .
PM me if interested.

FYI: both X200 and X201 series are widescreen 16:10.
I also have an X200 and an X200s for sale, both with WXGA (1280x800) and webcam.

[E350]

RBS: Thank you for confirming that the X200/X201 is 16:10 display. I stopped at the X61 because it was the last of the 4:3 aspect ratio displays.

[PandorasThinkpad]

@E350

This is even for me the reason that i don't really get started with newer thinpad models...

The 16:10's i have are T61, Z61t and X200s.

Just bought some days ago a X61s with the L7700, this is also a model that isn't very often to find.

But the X61 with the T9300 is still a very very rare thing. Up to now anything on this machine is runnig very fast....i'm using it with a mint13 in 64 bit.

If you really want to know my experiences with this machine, what do you really want to know at least?

I don't write any blog or so, so just ask questions and i hope i would be able to answer them.


Nice greets,

Pandora

[E350]

PandorasThinkpad: Yes, X61 (T8300 2.4GHz), X61T and T61p are the Thinkpads I use. The T61p (which I am using as we speak is used when I need maximum size for document, pdf or spreadsheet viewing. Otherwise I prefer the X61. I started with X61s and then transitioned the memory, Wifi cards, and hard drives (with W7 64-bit OS) to the X61.

As far as specific questions for your experience with X61 (T9300 2.5GHz), I guess could be:

1) quantitative: How much faster do you percieve the machine?

2) qualitative: Does the T9300 do things that the T8300 will not? I.e., permit the attachment of different things (like video out - VGA, SVGA, DVI etc.).

Live with your machine for a while and then post up your thoughts.

Again congratulations your purchase!

[PandorasThinkpad]

Hi again


Just a few words on it...

To 1) Even films in the highest resolution run without any judding, therfore a Broadcom Crystal HD MiniCard BCM70012 BCM970012 Decoder Card is quite a useful thing.

To 2) Don't really know, because i have no T8300 to take any comparison, in fact the T9300 is doing every job quite fast and fine. It is never working to capacity.

Well, at the moment the only machine that is offered is this...http://www.ebay.de/itm/231245913467?ssP ... 1423.l2649 But you even will be able to make a proposal, how much you will be willing to pay..no, this is not me, i will keep my X61.

But i really will use it often and in different ways...so this will take some time...i even use my other thinkpads,....

Kind regards,

Pandora

[axur-delmeria]

E350:

Being an owner of a T9300 X61 and a T8100 X61 before that, I'll pitch in as well:

1. Decoding 1080p H.264 10-bit video via CPU results in less frame drops and stuttering on both Windows 7 and Linux compared to my previous X61 T8100 (2.1GHz). Some test runs result in zero frame drops.
This is where the extra CPU power is felt. Otherwise, it's indistinguishable performance-wise from my previous X61.
If you're looking for snappy responsiveness, an SSD is what you need.

Also, the minimum Core Voltage is lower on this particular T9300 (0.925v) compared to my previous T8100 (0.95v). This results in a slightly better undervolting experience (below 2GHz at least).
This isn't true for all T9300's though, as I've read of a different X61 T9300 which had a minimum VCore of 0.95v and an X61 T8100/T8300 with 0.925v.


2. The only difference is the faster CPU-- the system board is the same. This means all the limitations of the X61 series apply: no DVI, HDMI, USB 3.0, Expresscard, and mSATA.

Some of these could be added though modifications, but getting newer X-series Thinkpads are a better option.

IMO the greatest weaknesses of the X61 are weak integrated graphics, short battery life, and lack of an Expresscard slot.

Also, the slower RAM (DDR2-667 compared to DDR3-1066 and faster on newer thinkpads) may be causing the teasing I experience when I'm playing 720p and 1080p video on an external monitor.
That, or because I'm using a single stick of RAM (no dual-channel mode, lower memory bandwidth).

[E350]

axur-delmeria: I believe this was addressed a year or two ago, but I was never able to figure it out. How are you able to do the following?

"playing 720p and 1080p video on an external monitor"

[axur-delmeria]

"playing 720p and 1080p video on an external monitor"

Plug in a monitor, set it as the only display device (On windows, Fn+F7 works once you've installed the Lenovo hotkey app, or try Win+P for Win7), then open the video file.

For linux, there are a number of programs for setting up multi-monitor. I use Arandr.

It's as simple as that.

I can also extend the desktop to the 2nd monitor. I just moved the media player application window to the secondary monitor.

If you're having problems, it could be a driver problem, or the VGA port is damaged.

[PandorasThinkpad]

Well, hey there, maybe anyone would be able to help me in this,....

so i like to do the display mod, build an sxga+ display in, which tablet should i look for and which sort of display would fit without big changes in construction?

The main problem would be to find such an display, or to find any suitable display without paypal paying and so on...

In case there would be an x60t to find, which one should it be, certainly one with this higher resolution, but which types of x60t would this be?

Thanx for all given help.

Kind regards,

PT