Thinkpads Forum

will be mine, just a few days and i will have this phenomenal machine. X61 with T9300. Any other guys or girls in here with such a nice and rare thing?

Oh well, i already have one of this tiny and well made machines, this is an T7100 with 4GB Ram and a fast Hitachi 7200 Upm hdd in it, i don't even like ssd.....(this is already sold and instead of it i have now the X61s with L7700)

but what now will come to me.....hoooray!

Have fun with that little powerhouse!

4:3...this is the biggest advantage of this little machines, i don't like this modern widescreen design!

Hope this X61 will work for quite a long time...otherwise i would have to look around, which manufacturer would have a better choice than this modern thinpads would be.

I don't like this "modern" design at all.

Sincerly,

PT

I don't think I've ever seen an X61 laptop with a T9300 modded to have the SXGA+ IPS from one of the tablets. THAT would be an absolutely incredible machine. I'd have one.

PandorasThinkpad wrote:4:3...this is the biggest advantage of this little machines, i don't like this modern widescreen design!

I never understood why people prefer 1024x768 over 1280x800 or 1366x768. They offer more screen resolution and due to the wider screen, a full sized keyboard. Now, if it was the SXGA+ you'd have a stronger case. The X220 or X230 in particular can offer you factory IPS, which is a more tangible benefit than a taller screen if you don't mind the higher PPI.

Congrats on the upgrade. I had the opportunity to review the X61s over at Notebook Review. It's a terrific little ultraportable outside of the average screen. It would have been even better had Lenovo put a nicer screen in it.

ZaZ wrote:I never understood why people prefer 1024x768 over 1280x800 or 1366x768.

Whenever you are viewing documents in applications that scale to the size of the screen and not by pixels (like Microsoft Word, like Adobe Reader), the fact that the 4:3 screen is physically taller makes the document scale larger and the print is therefore bigger and more readable.

And if you are a programmer, or a person who writes e.g. stories, you want screen HEIGHT, not width!
Only people with too much time (and not much else) watch movies on a laptop.
For any other computer purpose, widescreen is useless!

I never understood why people prefer 1024x768 over 1280x800 or 1366x768. They offer more screen resolution and due to the wider screen, a full sized keyboard.

I never, ever... everevereverever compare screen resolutions between aspect ratios, because then you're comparing aspect ratios, which are different tiers of screens, for a different tailored purpose.

To be fair though-you do have a point. Because 1280x800 is the cheap 16:10 resolution, and 1366x768 is the cheap 16:9 resolution. And any day of the week, I'd prefer those resolutions(especially 1280x800) over the cheap 4:3 resolution, which is 1024x768. If 4:3 had clung on for a bit longer, then it'd have a better cheap resolution(like 1280x960, or 1400x1050), but it didn't. Sad days.

I'm thinking of trying out an X201T over my X60T, even though it has a 16:9 aspect ratio... because a few friends of mine may want one, and I need to use another tablet besides my X60T, because it's realistically a collectible X60T, and not one I should be using daily. But I do... because it's just too lovable.

Ever since I got my SXGA+ X60, I've seen really no point in having an XGA X60. Maybe with WinXP on it, but Win Vista and 7 just looks not at home on an XGA screen. Plus- for graphic arts and word documents, it's just too tiny of a resolution.

Only people with too much time (and not much else) watch movies on a laptop.
For any other computer purpose, widescreen is useless!

Yes... but few companies anywhere have the huevos to place orders for screens not in a widescreen aspect ratio... because it's just not financially responsible. One slip drops you out of the race, so no one has any creative thought anymore. We have yet to see a company deploy a 4:3 portable machine en masse, and until we do, I guess we'll just have to sit on this forum and complain.

The only machine in recent times that comes instantly to my mind.. that has stuck a big needle in the eye of the statement above, is the Google Chromebook Pixel. Anyone got any word on that?

I'm with medessec and ZaZ about 1280x800 being a win win over 1024x768, you got a taller resolution in both height and width.

Medessec wrote:I'm thinking of trying out an X201T over my X60T, even though it has a 16:9 aspect ratio

X201T is 16:10

Personally, I generally like 16:10, (but hate monstrosities like WXGA in 14".1 and above) I particularly like WUXGA on 15" or higher and I also like WXGA/WXGA+ on 12.1.

Months ago I replaced my X61T couch surfing machine with a X200T. My wife started complaining that using the X61T she had to horizontally scroll a lot in most of the sites she surfed. I also realized many sites I was visiting needed more horizontal scrolling as well.

Now, back to the TS's T9300, I hope the cooler can cope with the heat, now he only needs a SXGA+ screen and it will be a hell of a TP

Cheers!

T

I have an X61 T9300 as well.

I'm planning an SXGA+ upgrade, but the IPS panel I have isn't in the best condition (salvaged from an X61 Tablet and removed the protective glass myself, hence the slight damage), that's why it's in the back burner instead of being a priority.

Undervolting can help lower the temps, especially since the T9300--at least, the one I have-- has a lower minimum core voltage (0.9375v) compared to the T8100 (0.95v) inside my previous X61.

Tasurinchi wrote:I'm with medessec and ZaZ bout 1280x800 being a win win over 1024x768, you got a taller resolution in both height and width.

And yet, it's a fundamental fact, which many people seem to ignore, that for certain uses, the resolution does not matter nearly as much as the physical dimensions, and in those applications, a taller/larger screen, even with a lower resolution may win.

Well, I suppose. I won't argue that point. But for what I do- which is some degree of gaming, web browsing, video editing, multimedia enhancement, animation, and then finally... sketching/drawing, it's really a matter of the highest resolution wins. Which means that for everything else, preference is down to the aspect ratio. Which is why all of my machines have absurdly high screen resolutions: Both my D900F and W700ds have WUXGA panels, my Frankie has a UXGA(would've been a QXGA if I could be bothered, and if some veterans on here didn't discourage it), and my X60T has the SXGA+.

And I don't own a single 16:9 machine. Even the monitors I plug into my Clevo when it's on my desk are 16:10 1680x1050 HP LA2205WG monitors. The monitor behind my 2503 is an old cruddy Sharp 19", that uses the good 'ol fashioned 1280x1024 res. Talk about vertical space, that was an aspect ratio that had it.

Even if you want to point out that your needs aren't the same as mine, I generally believe that XGA is just too small nowadays for anything that anyone would need to get done. Again, unless you use XP, and all you do is web browsing and type up documents, XGA can't even provide as much as the minimum screen estate required for those tasks.

X201T is 16:10

Wow. I totally missed that. I thought the X201 was when they started deploying the 1366x768 res 16:9 panels. Guess it's not... and I'm an idiot.

Medessec wrote:...they started deploying the 1366x768 res 16:9 panels

That started with the X220/T... (and the T/W510 generation)

For the W/XGA screens, I think the X200 is better than the X61s.
Fullsize keyboard and the pixels are about the same, slightly better spec'd for the most part.
But since I've gone SXGA+ on the X61T, its hard to go back to XGA again. The X200T I've got has a weird panel, it gets blurry at certain angles, my guess is the screen protector. I don't notice it on the X200.
I think I prefer my X61T still, but if I get a mint WXGA+ X201T. I think I'll be fine on the small compromise but much better performance.

Medessec wrote:I generally believe that XGA is just too small nowadays for anything that anyone would need to get done. Again, unless you use XP, and all you do is web browsing and type up documents, XGA can't even provide as much as the minimum screen estate required for those tasks.

Well, I sort of tend to agree with this assessment. It certainly isn't enough for me. However, "web browsing and type up documents" still constitute, for a large percentage of user, the very thing they "need to get done".

Saucey wrote:but if I get a mint WXGA+ X201T

I was of the opinion that only the X201s got that screen resolution (at least ex-factory)

Oh really?!
Hmmm no wonder why the 's' model is declared rare and sought after.
I've been laying off my homework with ThinkPads.

I have an X200s (7466-3JU) with standard LED-WXGA+ (1440x900).
I prefer that over my X61s, because it's so much lighter.

Saucey wrote:mmm no wonder why the 's' model is declared rare and sought after

The "s" models are not rare per se. Only the ones with WXGA+

IIRC X201s with such a screen are really rare, while the X200s with WXGA+ were a little bit more common. I'm with RBS that these are the best X-series you can get, the generations post X201 stick to "just" 1366x768

I saw an image of an X220 that had a modded WUXGA display.
Soldering had to be done on the LCD cable and there seemed to be some done on the mobo itself.
Looked like a hassle, especially the LCDs pins/contacts were done with precision. They were within 1mm solders, unsure if my hand is that steady.
It had a 51nb watermark on it, I'll see if I can find the TP I had saved the photo from.

Saucey wrote:I saw an image of an X220 that had a modded WUXGA display

You probably refer to Leo Kim, the Korean guy that do bad@ss mods

But I think it was a FHD panel what he got, not WUXGA

This has got a little bit out of the point.

Now, by myself i have to declare, that i don't like this screen format which occured after the T61, this is the one i have in 14"wide (1440x900). My Z61t has also the 1440x900 screen. More than that i don't need at all, even not as an artist, and i'm quite no artist in any simple way, just some internet presence will have been realized with such an machine, some music streaming, some conversation to people all over the world. Well, sometimes there will be really something designed, made.....but for me this will be as easy done on the XGA of the X61 as on the WXGA+ of the T61.

I've opened this post because of the X61 with T9300, this is/ will be quite a hot awsome thing and even much more rare than the T61 with an X9000 CPU.

Just take this as my personal opinion.

Nevertheless thanks for answering.

Best wishes,

PAndora

Sorry for the hijacking!

Enjoy that little TP and keep her cool!

Hey Folks!

Well...well...this machine is thunder...it's an original T9300 machine...the next i would like to realize is an mod from mini pci slot to expresscard slot, or to usb 3.0, but without great working zones, the best would be the way card----cable----card, without any need to change in hardware...so might there be anything to realize this?

Maybe there even will be a display mod, of course the change to an SXGA+....


Best wishes,

Pandora

The Expresscard mod is probably next to impossible... if I recall, the CardBus cage is a single-deck slot and it's soldered onto the board. If I'm wrong and it's modular like it is on the T61, it might be possible, but I don't think they ever made ExpressCard parts, and modding one would be quite a doozy.

The SXGA+ mod is definitely possible and quite a few people on here have done it. Someone will probably be able to share their experiences, or someone more familiar with specific topics on this forum can link a topic that outlines the mod.

ExpressCard mod is actually very easy because there is an adapter for it.

http://www.hwtools.net/ExtenderBoard/P26S-P26F.html

Well, I figured there would be a Mini-PCI Express adapter for it- but that means you have to sacrifice a valuable Mini PCIE slot for it. In my case, it's a split decision... but for someone else, who has no plans to use 3G/4G net or a Mini PCIE to USB adapter, and so on, it may be a no brainer.

But then you'd have the issue of getting the 34mm slot PCB into where the CardBus slot normally goes. If you don't mind your devices not being flush with the Thinkpad, I suppose you can just squeeze it into the existing CardBus cage, securing it somehow and leaving the rest of your CardBus slot intact in case you want to maintain your Thinkpad's originality. Or, if you explicitly want ExpressCard, you can chop up your CardBus slot and place the PCB in the correct position, essentially giving your X61 a proper 54mm ExpressCard slot. Doesn't sound bad at all... but in my mind, still a messy job, because you had to do away with your CardBus slot, and sacrifice a Mini PCI-E slot for it.

Up to you I guess.

Hi!

That's no problem at all, i just have an empty mini pci slot for such an rebuild, i'd like to realize this....http://www.hwtools.net/ExtenderBoard/P26S-P26F.html
Picture here:
http://www.hwtools.net/jpg/KZ-B26_1.jpg
but here in germany, there is no source for such a thing....for anyone able to pay with paypal it would be a nice thing to do....

It's the same with usb 3.0, there's also no way the get the parts for this mod in gernany if you don't have a credit card or paypal..

If anyone would be able to do the mod with this part of the given picture, please let us know about...

Greetings,

Pandora

Concerning the discussion between 4:3 vs (16:10 and 16:9):
I have four 4:3 laptops (2 X61 and 2 T61 frankenpad) and a 16:10 T500 with very good (IMO) Sharp UWXGA LCD.
I prefer to use T500 only when doing large Excel tables. In other cases, even when watching movies, I prefer 4:3 ones.
For me, the advantages of 4:3 screen not only in less vertical scrolling, but also in size, in both terms of screen size and laptop size. For example, comparing 12.1" X61 (4:3) and X200 (16:10) you will have 10% more screen space in X61 than that of X200, besides, the footprint of 4:3 X61 (268x211mm) is much smaller than X200 (295x210mm).
Another reason why I prefer 4:3 laptops because widescreen thinkpads look very ugly due to their very big LCD bezels.

Concerning X61 with T9300:
I have an X61 T8300 with SXGA+ mod, and recently bought a X61 with T9300. The T9300 is much hotter and noisier than the T8300 one and therefore I still keep the T8300 as my primary mobile solution.
The fans on all of my X61s are much noisier and less effective than the ones in T61s, may be this due to some defects in design.
I observed that all Penryn CPU on my X61s is less power effective than ones in T61s. They have higher LFM voltage (the T9300 have 0.95v, comparing to 0.925v of all others) and can not undervolt well (T9300 2.4Ghz@1.075v, T8300 2.4Ghz@1.050v in X61, comparing to T9500 2.4Ghz@1.0125v in one of my T61). I was hoping Intel and Lenovo will test BGA CPUs before putting them into ultra compact laptops, but it wasn't true.
Regarding XGA screen on X61, I have seen and use X61 with Samsung, IDTech, and CMO(?), and TMD(?) XGA screens, and the Samsung one is a way better than others in term of contrast ratio and viewing angle, thought it can not match to IPS (AFFS aka Flexview) screen.
Regarding X61 SXGA+ vs T61 UXGA BOE-Hydis AFFS screen, my eyes are much more strained when working with X61 SXGA+ than that with T61 UXGA, and that not only because the pixel size of X61 is smaller that that in T61, but also due to something else (may be the sparkling effect is more noticeable on X61).

They have higher LFM voltage (the T9300 have 0.95v, comparing to 0.925v of all others)

My personal experience is the reverse: my X61 T9300 goes down to 0.925v (from 600MHz to 1.6GHz) while my former x61 T8100 can only do 0.95v. :O

(T9300 2.4Ghz@1.075v, T8300 2.4Ghz@1.050v in X61, comparing to T9500 2.4Ghz@1.0125v in one of my T61)

Undervolting capability varies per processor, and you cannot safely make generalizations like this.

You might find a T9300 that can do 1.025v@2.5GHz, but another T9300 might need 1.050v or more.
The advantage of having socketed CPUs (like on the T61) is that you can buy a bunch of processors and test all of them until you find the one that undervolts the best.

Unfortunately, ultraportables like the X61 have CPUs that are soldered to the system board--it truly takes the luck of the draw to find one that undervolts well.

The fans on all of my X61s are much noisier and less effective than the ones in T61s, may be this due to some defects in design.

The cooling system of the X61 is smaller than that of the T61--the number and total surface area of the cooling fins, the size of the fan, etc.

In short, its cooling capacity is lower than that of the T61.
Its smaller fan has to spin faster to blow enough air over the cooling fins.
Higher RPM means more noise. Simple as that.


What I'd call a design defect would be HP-Compaq's CQ40 series, especially the models with AMD CPUs. These are 14-inch widescreen laptops, similar in size to the T61, whose cooling performance is worse than that of the X60/61 series. Now that is unforgivable.