Thinkpads Forum

axur-delmeria wrote:Is the X61 heatsink enough to cool it down at full tilt? My T9300 goes over 80c on torture tests, and surely a T9900 will put out more heat.

Undervolting and TPFC is needed, temperature is 70-75C, guess under IBT it'll be ~90. That's why I didn't went for the T9900. P8800 is much better in temperature and battery life, and just about 15-20% weaker in performance.

I put a P8800 motherboard in X61s and full load temperature seem to be okay without undervolting (more or less the same as the T9300 X61). Comparing to the previous L7500 motherboard(1.0125V on default, 0.85V lowest), I got about 5% less battery life and 10C hotter on P8800, but much much better performance.

This looks like way too much work. I'm intending to build up a mini-itx box and
use it as a network-attached server. It should be portable enough to pack up
in my luggage. I need ECC, anyway.

Eventually, pico-itx or nano-itx will come along, thus allowing us to use our favorite
Thinkpads as terminals. Take that, Steve Jobs!

Update about the X62 project:
PCB design finished, in manufacturing process.

Pic:

The USB on left side is USB 3.0, on right side are two USB 2.0. VGA is replaced by miniDP and mini HDMI
source: http://forum.51nb.com/thread-1542238-1-1.html

chen_xin_ming wrote:Update about the X62 project:
PCB design finished, in manufacturing process.

Pic:

The USB on left side is USB 3.0, on right side are two USB 2.0. VGA is replaced by miniDP and mini HDMI
source: http://forum.51nb.com/thread-1542238-1-1.html

Do you have any information about production volume, availability and pricing?

chen_xin_ming wrote: PCB design finished, in manufacturing process.

This is like New Year Present to all of Thinkpadders - COOL!
I will wait and pray!

But i don't understand drawing it's like a right portion of mainboard. will be a daughterboard (like in X20x)?
2 miniPCIe slots are moved to the left and there are no more place for expresscard (bad things, but we have USB3 onboard and it is fine)? What about HSF? I see 4 screw holes in rectangular bracket while old HSF have other mounting holes configuration. Termal problems? Left part where CPU is live may be wery HOT - CPU + PCH + WiFI + WWAN in a single place:( And what about cardreader? I see it is here, but what type is it - SD? SDXC? + MS + XD?

AND The main question - what CPU is choosen one?

Pokrzept wrote: Do you have any information about production volume, availability and pricing?

This step is just sample produce, only several boards will be produced and debugged.
The first large volume produce will be about 200 pieces. Whether there will be a second batch depends on the feedback.
Average cost is about $300 each, including the board and CPU, HOPE has not announced any price yet.
I don’t know if HOPE will make it internationally available this time. But the mass production is not going to happen within 2 months, so let's not worry about it now.

FryPpy wrote: But i don't understand drawing it's like a right portion of mainboard. will be a daughterboard (like in X20x)?
2 miniPCIe slots are moved to the left and there are no more place for expresscard (bad things, but we have USB3 onboard and it is fine)? What about HSF? I see 4 screw holes in rectangular bracket while old HSF have other mounting holes configuration. Termal problems? Left part where CPU is live may be wery HOT - CPU + PCH + WiFI + WWAN in a single place:( And what about cardreader? I see it is here, but what type is it - SD? SDXC? + MS + XD?

AND The main question - what CPU is choosen one?

Yes, thanks to the high integration of the new Intel CPU, it’s smaller than the original board (it’s good for cost reduction, too), there will be a daughter board on the right, connecting to main board with cable.
The CPU is Intel® Core™ i7-4558U, low voltage, TDP is 28W. This is even smaller than X61’s original CPU. So I wouldn’t concern about the heat.
The heat sink mounting hole is designed for the models without s, so if you have X60s and X61s, you are probably out of luck.
Express Card is gone. SD card reader is there, not sure about its type.

chen_xin_ming wrote: So I wouldn’t concern about the heat.
The heat sink mounting hole is designed for the models without s, so if you have X60s and X61s, you are probably out of luck.
Express Card is gone. SD card reader is there, not sure about its type.

Thanks for the clarification. I have red google translated 51nb original topic... but i don't know your language and google translation is sometimes funny

Yes i understand that this "small" design is for cost reduction. Many people asked about right USB3 ports... but this can be done only with full sized mobo
Ideas for using freed space (in lower right corner) for LiPo battery can be very interesting for enthusiasts who can mount such battery securely.

mSATA is a good feature that makes X62 good counterpart of X220+.

T50 project have some heat problems from PCH and WLAN combination in one hard place. Yes ULV 4nd gen CPU can make less heat but cumulatively this place may become big heat generator. I think Debugging stage can show this thing occur or not.

If i'll be in their team i'll better make unified design. With 3 mini PCIe slots (msata + WLAN + WWAN) may be with some M.2 slots... and try to make design compatible with all range of X6x series (including X6x tablets) but i understand that this needs much more work and much more investments. But this can gain more demand and may faster pay off.

Any way i'll wish good luck to 51nb TEAM.
And if you will find some good news pleas post it here we are waiting.

and try to make design compatible with all range of X6x series (including X6x tablets)

That's hard, since Tablets are different in certain areas, like:

1. LCD connector, to support the digitizer panel and tablet buttons.
2. microphone (non-Tablets have it below the right arrow key, while Tablets have it beside the Tablet buttons)
3. Pen-related circuitry

mSATA is a good feature that makes X62 good counterpart of X220+.

I agree. mSATA is one of the reasons I got an X220 instead of an X201.

Too bad the X62 doesn't have a hassle-free IPS upgrade option, unless nb51 can also find the means to manufacture flex cables with the modified wiring layout.
Once that's out of the way, only the physical modifications (removing the mounting tabs, securing the IPS panel to the lid) need to be done.

The Boe-Hydis 1400x1050 IPS panel has about 70% of the screen area of the X240's Full HD panel, and is a definite upgrade from the X220's 1366x768 display.

One idea though: Why not put one or two USB3.0 ports on the opening of the Cardbus slot?

FryPpy wrote:and try to make design compatible with all range of X6x series (including X6x tablets)

The reason that they can't make it compatible with X60s and X61s is simply because their heat sink is not big enough to cover the new CPU... this can not be overcome unless the user makes major mod to the heat sink and the mounting holes.
HOPE did mention that tablet version will be able to use this board, but they will lose the digitizer function though.

FryPpy wrote:T50 project have some heat problems from PCH and WLAN combination in one hard place. Yes ULV 4nd gen CPU can make less heat but cumulatively this place may become big heat generator. I think Debugging stage can show this thing occur or not.

Yes, I understand your concern. But T50 was using the first gen of Core i CPU, which is infamous for their heat. Haswell is much better. I have an ASUS laptop (Gen 1 i7) with standby temp at over 50C, and my T440s’s standby temp is only 35C. i7-4558u has the PCH integrated, that’s one less heat source.

axur-delmeria wrote: One idea though: Why not put one or two USB3.0 ports on the opening of the Cardbus slot?

One possible reason may be the USB 3.0 socket needs through-hole and it will conflict with the card reader on the other side?
I believe HOPE has made many hard decisions to cut some of the features, the board must be kept simple, otherwise the debug procedure will take too long and drain their funding.
You can always use mpcie to convert to many peripherals, and there is plenty of room under the right palm rest now

You can always use mpcie to convert to many peripherals, and there is plenty of room under the right palm rest now

Now it's the left palmrest that's going to heat up.

lol finally someone can help with translating stuffs, Great!
Still don't understand why HOPE doesn't get the express card slot.... It can help most people satisfying their personal needs (for a better graphics card, USB3.0, more USBs or firewire or hundreds more)
but first of all, let's hope those boards can be shipped abroad

News:
The prototype PCB of X62 came out from the factory. The components will be purchased and soldered after Chinese New Year. Hopefully they can be ready for test in March.

chen_xin_ming wrote:News:
The prototype PCB of X62 came out from the factory. The components will be purchased and soldered after Chinese New Year. Hopefully they can be ready for test in March.

...wow...

Shame about the loss of digitizer on X61T-- I'd have gladly paid double to keep that (feel free to pass that along!) but I'll definitely still be hoping to purchase at least one or two of these for testing. I hope the queue isn't too long!

Good news indeed.

I do have a X61 so I will follow this project to see where it leads.

But I have a question or a suggestion for "chen_xin_ming" or "RMSMajestic" how about whispering in Hope's ear about a X301 motherboard project in the future.

chen_xin_ming wrote:News:

Good news.

xiphmont wrote:Shame about the loss of digitizer

This things (T50, X62) is for enthusiasts - hardware hackers... May be it is still possible to get wacom wires and connect it to external COM port (there is plenty of space under palmrest now).

shawross wrote:about a X301 motherboard

May be. But X30x is less common model than X6x.

I have successfully done the 1400x1050 screen mod in my 1.8GHZ X61s. (Otherwise stock -- the 1.8ghz vs the standard 1.6ghz was due to a custom corporate program I think).

I am really glad to see others working on the X6x platform.

I am about to repeat the SXGA modification on a second X61s, in case my main Frankenpad breaks. Three quick questions:

1. (to show I'm not completely highjacking the thread) Are you guys doing anything to deal with the heat in this machine? Either with a stock processor or otherwise? I have the 2x2 AGN wifi card, and between it and the processor, I find that the laptop freezes (I think due to heat) anytime I'm using wifi on a solid surface for more than 2 hours. I need to replace the fansink anyway, and would *love* to replace with something that could cool more.

2. The machine has a cellular card in it, with its own "second fan." I don't use the cellular card, but is it possible to turn that fan on to decrease heat?

3. If someone can remind me the model # and/or source of the SXGA screen, I'd appreciate it. It's biohydis 12xxxxx something, and I know one very similar model # has the screen glued to the surface of the glass protector, making it unusable for the mod.


Thanks in advance, and good luck to everyone hanging on to a great form-factor machine.

I find that the laptop freezes (I think due to heat) anytime I'm using wifi on a solid surface for more than 2 hours. I need to replace the fansink anyway, and would *love* to replace with something that could cool more.

You need to back this up with some temperature readings. There's also the possibility that the wifi card is causing it.

For the X60s/61s, the second one from the left is the better heatsink: http://blog-imgs-49.fc2.com/t/o/k/tokub ... 3f251a.jpg

Undervolting is a sure-fire way to reduce CPU temps. It's only time-consuming because you have to stress-test the CPU (to ensure stability) with every voltage change.

The machine has a cellular card in it, with its own "second fan." I don't use the cellular card, but is it possible to turn that fan on to decrease heat?

Why not just remove the cellular card?

If someone can remind me the model # and/or source of the SXGA screen, I'd appreciate it. It's biohydis 12xxxxx something, and I know one very similar model # has the screen glued to the surface of the glass protector, making it unusable for the mod.

You already did the mod once, but didn't keep notes/datasheets? This is something that can be solved by a google or forum search you know? Boe-Hydis HV121P01-100, as used in the X60 Tablet. The X61 Tablet uses the HV121P01-101, which usually has the protective glass bonded with one of the most annoying adhesives I've ever encountered.
The two are identical save for the method of bonding the protective glass, but sometimes 101's are available without the glass.

Sourcing: X60Ts; some Motion LE1700 laptop/tablet hybrids have the SXGA+ panel, but it's the same type as the X61T http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=114666.

[Huh, an edit attempt resulted in a double post. Deleting this one.]

axur-delmeria wrote: The two are identical save for the method of bonding the protective glass, but sometimes 101's are available without the glass.

Sourcing: X60Ts; some Motion LE1700 laptop/tablet hybrids have the SXGA+ panel, but it's the same type as the X61T http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=114666.

Be careful sourcing the -101 without the glass. The majority of these that I've bought are reclaimed units that have had the adhesive (and glass) chemically dissolved off. That apparently also damages the front polarizer, and so they also had a new but inferior front polarizer film. The polarizers are the most expensive part of the screen (not the panel itself!) and they have a substantial effect on contrast and color stability. These particular panels showed off-angle color shift-- kind of defeats the whole point of IPS!

I believe if you buy a glassless -101 panel and the front polarizer has square instead of rounded-off corners, it's not original (but I'm not 100% sure of that-- I also bought three screens that had a square-corner polarizer, and these specific screens had color quality as good as the originals. Was it a different original polarizer, or did that particular reclaimer just use a high quality replacement? I can't see any evidence of residual adhesive in those three panels either. They might just have done a really good job, whereas the others were kinda cheap and crappy.)

Thanks a lot, axur-delmeria and xiphmont. Very helpful.

I'll report back if I get better data on the temperature issue.

axur-delmeria wrote:

I find that the laptop freezes (I think due to heat) anytime I'm using wifi on a solid surface for more than 2 hours. I need to replace the fansink anyway, and would *love* to replace with something that could cool more.

You need to back this up with some temperature readings. There's also the possibility that the wifi card is causing it.

For the X60s/61s, the second one from the left is the better heatsink: http://blog-imgs-49.fc2.com/t/o/k/tokub ... 3f251a.jpg

Undervolting is a sure-fire way to reduce CPU temps. It's only time-consuming because you have to stress-test the CPU (to ensure stability) with every voltage change.

The machine has a cellular card in it, with its own "second fan." I don't use the cellular card, but is it possible to turn that fan on to decrease heat?

Why not just remove the cellular card?

If someone can remind me the model # and/or source of the SXGA screen, I'd appreciate it. It's biohydis 12xxxxx something, and I know one very similar model # has the screen glued to the surface of the glass protector, making it unusable for the mod.

You already did the mod once, but didn't keep notes/datasheets? This is something that can be solved by a google or forum search you know? Boe-Hydis HV121P01-100, as used in the X60 Tablet. The X61 Tablet uses the HV121P01-101, which usually has the protective glass bonded with one of the most annoying adhesives I've ever encountered.
The two are identical save for the method of bonding the protective glass, but sometimes 101's are available without the glass.

Sourcing: X60Ts; some Motion LE1700 laptop/tablet hybrids have the SXGA+ panel, but it's the same type as the X61T http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=114666.

BE CAREFUL. I use a x61s which I already modified with an x60 tablet`s sxga+.
That´s no problem by using the right cable.
Now I got an extra Motion LE1700 with SXGA+. It is true, that the display also has an SXGA+ in 12", but there
are several models.
The LE1700 with ViewAnywhere displays use Toshiba panels, which are NOT pin-compatible!
The LE1700 with UltraViewAnywhere uses "our" Hydis -101, but they are even harder to find than
an X6x with SXGA. It doubt if it´s possible to connect the Toshiba panel because of using dual LVDS.

The Toshiba panel is: LTD121KM2M, it es easy to find about $30..

News:
The SMD process of X62 prototype is finished. Now HOPE is in the process of debugging.


Also, HOPE says the X62 will be released with a customized heat sink.

chen_xin_ming, it's a great news. Any thoughts on when the motherboard could be released?

mdancer wrote:chen_xin_ming, it's a great news. Any thoughts on when the motherboard could be released?

I've no idea... It all depends on how the debug goes. Even if everything works, I think they may need another 2~3 months for mass production. If there are severe bugs we may never see it coming out.