Thinkpads Forum

Okay so earlier today I won a X61 7673 on Ebay for a bargain price of approx $80 with 3GB RAM and a T7500 CPU. The latter is important as I believe the 'T' in the CPU name means it will be socketed and therefore easier to upgrade? So my next questions are what is the fastest CPU you recommend installing, that does not require additional modding to keep cool etc and should I avoid the ones from Ebay in China? Also once I have done the Middleton BIOS thing, which type of RAM should I buy to increase it to the 8GB total? I'm not sure what I will be using the X61 for yet, but it will either be a general use machine and watching internet TV and YouTube, or it will be a music sequencing multimedia powerhouse like I already have with my larger Z61p.

I have read a few other topics on the forum and one seems to suggest that the T9300 CPU is great for HD video decoding, but it runs very hot and overall performance for most applications is no better than with the T8100 CPU. I also have a Broadcom Crystal HD MiniCard BCM70015 Decoder Card knocking around, which I have not been able to use yet as my other X61s has a locked BIOS and I think that may have been a factor in why the card did not work. However hopefully the X61 that is on the way to me soon will not have those issues, and I can finally use the Broadcom video card to be less of a burden on the main CPU. By the way do I have to remove the WWAN card and use that slot for the video card?

I've been looking for a reasonably priced X61 in nice condition for a couple of years, so I am looking forward to receiving it soon.

Shredder11 wrote:Okay so earlier today I won a X61 7673 on Ebay for a bargain price of approx $80 with 3GB RAM and a T7500 CPU. The latter is important as I believe the 'T' in the CPU name means it will be socketed and therefore easier to upgrade?

Nope. Full-voltage CPU soldered onto the board.

Also once I have done the Middleton BIOS thing, which type of RAM should I buy to increase it to the 8GB total?

DDR2 PC-5300 or PC-6400.

By the way do I have to remove the WWAN card and use that slot for the video card?

No.

All X61/X61s/X61t machines have their CPU soldered onto the motherboard.
As for RAM, 2x4GB PC2-6400 (ca. $90-100) is the best that machine can do.
PC2-6400 is usually more available and cheaper than the original PC2-5300.

The current market prices for DDR2 ram do no justify exceeding a 4GB kit in my opinion. A wireless N PCI-E card is another upgrade you may want to consider with dual band 2.4/5ghz radios.

Shredder11 wrote:By the way do I have to remove the WWAN card and use that slot for the video card?

If you are asking about Broadcom Crystal HD in WWAN slot - YES it will work fine in WWAN slot and you should remove WWAN card beforehand. BE WARNED about tight screws - unscrew WWAN card with caution!

If you are asking about external PCIe video card.... May be it can be possible. WWAN mini PCIe slot have one PCIe lane but classical approach is using ExpressCard to obtain PCIe lane and can be detachable. All X61 haven't ExpressCard slot - only PCMCIA.

FryPpy wrote:All X61 haven't ExpressCard slot - only PCMCIA.

My X61 would disagree.
The X200/201 Expresscard Slot can be made to fit. It does take some soldering work.
Pic warning 210KB: http://i.imgur.com/r5E2Osh.jpg

That is a shame about the CPU.....maybe I read about the socketed CPU from another similar machine?

Regards the video card I just wondered if there was already an internal slot free, or if I was forced to remove an existing card like the WWAN.

I see the prices of 8GB RAM kits are HUGE but once I have decided on the role of the machine, I may not need 8GB as I might stick with 32-bit Windows and the 3GB it comes with will suffice. However 4GB kits are a quarter of the price of the 8GB ones, so that is something to bear in mind.

You want to use a 64 bit OS, it's more secure. 2 x 2GB kits are around $20 or less on ebay for DDR2. I got a Hynix PC2-5300 kit a few weeks ago for $17.

wileE wrote: My X61 would disagree.

Cool

wileE,
That's one crazy mod.

wileE wrote:

FryPpy wrote:All X61 haven't ExpressCard slot - only PCMCIA.

My X61 would disagree.
The X200/201 Expresscard Slot can be made to fit. It does take some soldering work.
Pic warning 210KB: http://i.imgur.com/r5E2Osh.jpg

That looks fun!

I would worry about interference, crosstalk etc. with the wires though. How well does it work?

It works just like an expresscard slot is supposed to work.
No problems. And I did the first machine some months ago, so I do not expect there will be any problems.

X61 are great machines for doing mods.

wileE wrote:X61 are great machines for doing mods.

My only complaint is the X3100... not supported under OS X and doesn't support Optimus for the eGPU stuff :/

Tempted to try these things with my X201, but it feels more flimsy physically. Not a huge fan...

As far as upgrades go, feel free to pick things that interest you from my "$500 upgrades" thread further down. Most of them involve soldering and lots of hacking if that's your thing.

R

Well it took a full week to arrive which is more than double, and being the UK it was disgustingly dirty and sticky and horrible, with bits missing or broken. So naturally I gave it a thorough cleaning and then switched it on. To my relief it booted to the Windows 7 desktop, but within minutes the whole computer was boiling hot at around 92°C. It turned out the CPU fan was not spinning, so I switched off and took things apart. The fan looked fairly clean and free of dust, so I gently flicked it with my finger and it began spinning and has done ever since. While I had it disassembled I installed my Broadcom Crystal HD BCM70015 MiniCard. Luckily the screws on the WWAN card were not too tight and were removed easily. I also covered up the loose antenna connector with some tape, to avoid any unwanted contact with other circuits etc. Finally I realised I had some spare parts to sort out the missing screws, and the grubby red trackpoint nipple; I have a new replacement battery arriving soon.


After reassemblng everything I tried to flash the BIOS with the Middleton version. I say tried because it threw up errors when launching the Windows updater application, so I made a bootable CD disc and tried that. This also threw up errors, at first due to the battery being damaged and so I used a known working good battery. The BIOS update app stopped giving battery errors and then complained about the files on the disc being wrong. At this point I returned to Windows to have another go, and then I decided to copy the BIOS files from my NAS drive to the X61 internal drive. This seemed to do the trick and there were no more errors and the BIOS update completed successfully.


So I now have a working Broadcom Crystal HD BCM70015 card which makes a massive difference; I get almost zero CPU useage with say 720p videos, and around 50% with 1080p YouTube and everything is silky smooth. So my X61 now outperforms my larger Thinpad Z61p with the ATi FireGL 5200 GPU.


My only real concern is how hot the temperatures the computer is running at. I know that the X61 is known to run hot but what is the typical temperature for a T7500 based model like mine? Within minutes mine is at 60°C and rising to 80°C or more, with the ambient room temperature around 25°C.

Shredder11 wrote:Well it took a full week to arrive which is more than double, and being the UK it was disgustingly dirty and sticky and horrible, with bits missing or broken. So naturally I gave it a thorough cleaning and then switched it on. To my relief it booted to the Windows 7 desktop, but within minutes the whole computer was boiling hot at around 92°C. It turned out the CPU fan was not spinning, so I switched off and took things apart. The fan looked fairly clean and free of dust, so I gently flicked it with my finger and it began spinning and has done ever since. While I had it disassembled I installed my Broadcom Crystal HD BCM70015 MiniCard. Luckily the screws on the WWAN card were not too tight and were removed easily. I also covered up the loose antenna connector with some tape, to avoid any unwanted contact with other circuits etc. Finally I realised I had some spare parts to sort out the missing screws, and the grubby red trackpoint nipple; I have a new replacement battery arriving soon.


After reassemblng everything I tried to flash the BIOS with the Middleton version. I say tried because it threw up errors when launching the Windows updater application, so I made a bootable CD disc and tried that. This also threw up errors, at first due to the battery being damaged and so I used a known working good battery. The BIOS update app stopped giving battery errors and then complained about the files on the disc being wrong. At this point I returned to Windows to have another go, and then I decided to copy the BIOS files from my NAS drive to the X61 internal drive. This seemed to do the trick and there were no more errors and the BIOS update completed successfully.


So I now have a working Broadcom Crystal HD BCM70015 card which makes a massive difference; I get almost zero CPU useage with say 720p videos, and around 50% with 1080p YouTube and everything is silky smooth. So my X61 now outperforms my larger Thinpad Z61p with the ATi FireGL 5200 GPU.


My only real concern is how hot the temperatures the computer is running at. I know that the X61 is known to run hot but what is the typical temperature for a T7500 based model like mine? Within minutes mine is at 60°C and rising to 80°C or more, with the ambient room temperature around 25°C.

Downlad TPFanControl and run it in bios mode at first. See how your temps are with TPFanControl.

TPFanControl is something I use on all my Thinkpads except my G40 and G41 which is does not support. Even with the fan going at 5000rpm and more it struggles to keep the temps down. So I am thinking either my CPU needs new thermal paste or it is just the X61 range is overly hot? My X61s with the energy efficient CPU runs at half the temperature.

The Core 2 Duo T7500 is a 65nm Merom CPU, so it runs hotter than the 45nm Penryn CPUs (T8100, T8300, T9300) in later models of the X61 .

Your best recourse is to undervolt the CPU and disable IDA (Intel Dynamic Acceleration, primitive form of Turbo Boost).

Shredder11 wrote:TPFanControl is something I use on all my Thinkpads except my G40 and G41 which is does not support. Even with the fan going at 5000rpm and more it struggles to keep the temps down. So I am thinking either my CPU needs new thermal paste or it is just the X61 range is overly hot? My X61s with the energy efficient CPU runs at half the temperature.

Sounds like your thermal paste is dried up or gone. I had a the T7500 on my T61 before upgrading to the Penryn T8300 which runs cooler. The T7500 still ran cool. My hunch is that you may have got yourself a lemon or what I term a junker laptop. Those are the most difficult to rehabilitate and get up running efficiently. It's all based on your original description of what you had on your hands when you received it.

Hans Gruber wrote:

Downlad TPFanControl and run it in bios mode at first. See how your temps are with TPFanControl.

BIOS mode does absolutely nothing since TPFC is effectively off in it, the fan is controlled by its native EC code. Running Smart Mode 1 or 2 should work.

Hans Gruber wrote:
Sounds like your thermal paste is dried up or gone.

I concur.

The T7500 still ran cool. My hunch is that you may have got yourself a lemon or what I term a junker laptop. Those are the most difficult to rehabilitate and get up running efficiently. It's all based on your original description of what you had on your hands when you received it.

I disagree. X61 sports a full-blown Merom in a tiny shell, with a small fan to boot. These machines were always known for running hot. After re-pasting the system, the original 4965AG/N card should be replaced with a cooler-running one as well, be it an Intel 5***/6*** or an Atheros unit.

The Smart 1 and Smart 2 settings work fine. It's been my experience that running in bios mode cools the computer faster because it reads the bios sensor. For whatever reason the fan runs at higher RPM's based on my observations on several Thinkpads. I use Smart mode as a default for everything but the T500. I was just making a suggestion until he gets his temperature on his CPU under control. He could also run manual mode fan setting 7.

Hans Gruber wrote: It's been my experience that running in bios mode cools the computer faster because it reads the bios sensor. For whatever reason the fan runs at higher RPM's based on my observations on several Thinkpads.

Correct. But there's no difference in running the system with TPFC in BIOS mode or running it with no TPFC installed at all.

I use Smart mode as a default for everything but the T500. I was just making a suggestion until he gets his temperature on his CPU under control. He could also run manual mode fan setting 7.

If one has to run the Manual mode unless they're doing something very CPU-intensive (WU, stress test, etc.) there's something wrong with their cooling system.

Which is why I suggested the bios mode setting in TPFanControl. It reads the bios temp setting off the motherboard. Based on the OP's discovery upon receipt of his X61, he said it was running very hot.

George, give it a try on one of your thinkpads. In TPFanControl click on the Bios mode and watch the RPM's crank up vs. smart mode. You can try it out simply while your Thinkpad idles.

Doesn't BIOS mode simply mean that TPFC lets the EC firmware manage the fan speed?

I prefer hand-tuning the fan speed settings in TPFC. Something like:
I think this was how I configured my aunt's X60, which had a Core 2 Duo T5600 and ran quite hot.

Undervolting yields a lot of benefits in terms of reducing the CPU's heat output (consequently lowering its temperature) and a slight increase in battery life.
In Windows, I use RMClock while testing for stable voltages, then transfer those settings to IBM_ECW.
IBM_ECW also has fan control functionality, so it's better than running RMClock + TPFC.

Refreshing the thermal paste is always a good idea, especially since it's a second-hand laptop and you don't know if any sort of maintenance has been done on it.
Also buy a small thermal pad for the northbridge, in case you damage the pad during disassembly.

axur-delmeria wrote:Doesn't BIOS mode simply mean that TPFC lets the EC firmware manage the fan speed?

Yes. That's what I've been trying to point out all along.

Undervolting yields a lot of benefits in terms of reducing the CPU's heat output (consequently lowering its temperature) and a slight increase in battery life.

The problem here is that the undervolting properties of C2D CPUs are pretty bad, especially when compared to something like Pentium M.

Refreshing the thermal paste is always a good idea, especially since it's a second-hand laptop and you don't know if any sort of maintenance has been done on it.
Also buy a small thermal pad for the northbridge, in case you damage the pad during disassembly.

Yep. These machines are 7-8 year old now and one should always presume that no re-pasting has ever been performed.

ajkula66 wrote:The problem here is that the undervolting properties of C2D CPUs are pretty bad, especially when compared to something like Pentium M.

It's still better than not undervolting it.
My aunt's X60 went from "always on the edge of thermal shutdown" to "still hot but at least it's 10C cooler now" thanks to undervolting.

Thanks for all the replies which seem very sound to me. I'm finding that booting from stone cold it displays 60°C and then after say an hour of light browsing and no videos, the temperature rises to 80°C, and if I then begin playing YouTube videos for a short while the temperature can reach 90°C+. One thing I have noticed when compared with my other X model Thinkpads, is that the GPU temperature is a good 10°C lower than the CPU. I do agree that the WiFi is rather hot and maybe I should replace that. Do I need to be careful of which Ebay seller I use, or do I simply seek out the cheapest model?

Despite my earlier description of the overall condition of the notebook, it does not appear to be a lemon. The keyboard is in good condition with no shiny keys and all of them working etc. The screen is bright with no dead pixels and the hinges seem reasonable. I'm still waiting for my new battery to arrive, although another impulse purchase arrived today and this is handy, although the Lenovo Power Manager gets confused with it connected...

A few hours ago I took apart my X61 and removed the heatsink, cleaned everything with Akasa TIM cleaner and then applied a blob of Arctic MX-4 thermal compound to the CPU. After a couple of hours of being on and playing 1080p YouTube videos, the temps never rose higher than 70°C. Playing those videos without the help of the BCM70015 decoder card, resulted in almost 100% CPU load and 70°C temps. Once I utilised the decoder card the CPU load fell to around 10 to 15% and the temps were around 60°C. General internet use and reading pdf files resulted in temps of 54°C. The computer idles at 51°C even after demanding use, which is better than the 80°C+ I was getting before!

The new main battery arrived and is working well, plus the extended extra battery connected to the dock connector is working fine. So the next thing I will do is remove a Crucial BX100 250GB SSD from one of my Z61p machines, and place it in this X61. After that I might look for a suitable cooler running WiFi card or use a tiny external micro USB adapter? Which would give the better performance?

I have good experiences with half-size Intel 6200N plus half-size adapter.
Looks like this (illustration only): http://www.ebay.com/itm/331161237621
And of course Middleton's BIOS.

I forgot to mention that when I removed the heatsink, the CPU had barely 10% thermal paste left around the edges and that was crusty and dried up; the middle area of the die had nothing at all just a shiny top!


All the low temps I mentioned earlier were when I had the keyboard and palmrest removed, so there would have been more chance for the heat to escape.


I've seen a few half size WiFi cards and never realised I would need to buy a separate metal adapter with screws, so thanks for the reminder.

Here is a benchmark result for a Crucial BX100 250GB SSD drive in this X61 with Windows XP Pro SP3: