Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

X60/X61 series specific matters only.
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dandreye
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Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#1 Post by dandreye » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:59 am

Hi All,

Intel X25-M G2 SSD (80GB) in my X60s measures max sequential read speed ~137MB/s as per CDM5. Shouldn't it be closer to 150MB/s? (bearing in mind SATA I cap imposed by ICH7M chipset) Just thinking if it has anything to do with UDMA6/133, e.g. as a result of some fallback from AHCI to IDE/Legacy/Compatibility mode although I definitely have AHCI set in BIOS and also msahci value changed in W8.1 registry accordingly (I forgot about AHCI during W8.1 installation and had to switch to it afterwards). Here's what I have in DM:
Image

Sequential write speed is ~68MB/s, which is no surprise because of that well known X25-M issue... does it affect read speed too by chance?


Many thanks in advance!
X1G1 3460-1F4, 2x X61s 7667-34G, X61s 7667-Y24, X61s 7667-WQ8, X61s 7666-AA5, X60s 1702-W96, T43 2669-YJ6, T42 2373-Q91

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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:26 am

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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#3 Post by dandreye » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:46 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:The X60/T60/R60 series are all limited to SATA-I.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=93909
https://communities.intel.com/thread/9812
Correct (that's why I wrote "bearing in mind SATA I cap imposed by ICH7M chipset" above)... but shouldn't effective speed be closer to that cap anyway? Even at 20% overhead (8 payload bits + 2 overhead) 1.5Gbps translates into 150MB/s...

Update: just realised that I previously had this very SSD in one of my X61s's and sequential read speed was no better. I have Middleton BIOS there 100%: burnt it on my own from under MS-DOS, had a long beep as usual etc... which app will tell me if it's now SATA II indeed? Can't believe Middleton BIOS didn't get burnt successfully back then.
Last edited by dandreye on Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
X1G1 3460-1F4, 2x X61s 7667-34G, X61s 7667-Y24, X61s 7667-WQ8, X61s 7666-AA5, X60s 1702-W96, T43 2669-YJ6, T42 2373-Q91

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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#4 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:11 am

This program Speccy should tell you: https://www.piriform.com/speccy
Don't expect such an old (or any) SSD to come anywhere near its advertised speeds.

My Crucial MX100 SSD, advertised as having 256GB, has only 238GB in real life.
It's very common for most (if not every) HD/SSD/RAM manufacturer to lie about their spec interpretation.
http://blog.forret.com/2005/02/04/binar ... kibibytes/
dandreye wrote:Can't believe Middleton BIOS didn't get burnt successfully back then.
What do you mean with this?
I have USB sticks and CDs with them.

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Set your expectation to 135 Mo/s.

#5 Post by automobus » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:10 am

dandreye wrote:Intel X25-M G2 SSD (80GB) in my X60s measures max sequential read speed ~137MB/s as per CDM5. Shouldn't it be closer to 150MB/s?

but shouldn't effective speed be closer to that cap anyway?
Nope! If you were to consult published benchmark speed test results, put out by (established recognised trusted) reviewers, then you will see that your observed measure is a match, in-line with best measures for SATA 1.5Gb/s. What I do to remember "rule of thumb" is: round down base SATA performance to 135 Mo/s, then multiply by two (for second generation) and four (for third generation). So I have memorised, expect realistic throughput of:

135 Mo/s for SATA 1.5Gb/s
270 Mo/s for SATA 3Gb/s
540 Mo/s for SATA 6Gb/s

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Re: Set your expectation to 135 Mo/s.

#6 Post by dandreye » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:26 pm

automobus wrote:So I have memorised, expect realistic throughput of:
135 Mo/s for SATA 1.5Gb/s
270 Mo/s for SATA 3Gb/s
540 Mo/s for SATA 6Gb/s
Same 28% overhead with all 3 SATA versions then... OK sorted: turns out the low speed with this SSD still in X61s reported earlier was actually measured with stock BIOS before I burnt Middleton BIOS. Getting 250.7MB/s read and 102.7MB/s write with the same make/model 160GB one in it now (sequential):
https://s27.postimg.org/nomah886r/CDM_S ... _G2_K5.png
RealBlackStuff wrote:This program Speccy should tell you: https://www.piriform.com/speccy
Don't expect such an old (or any) SSD to come anywhere near its advertised speeds.
My Crucial MX100 SSD, advertised as having 256GB, has only 238GB in real life.
It's very common for most (if not every) HD/SSD/RAM manufacturer to lie about their spec interpretation.
http://blog.forret.com/2005/02/04/binar ... kibibytes/
Speccy reported SATA-II / 3.0Gb/s for X61s, as expected. Interestingly today's figures reported above are even just above the figures in the SSD specs, so Intel seem to be quite honest, at least on this occasion:
"Bandwidth Performance Specifications
— Sustained Sequential Read: Up to 250 MB/s
— Sustained Sequential Write: Up to 100 MB/s"
RealBlackStuff wrote:
dandreye wrote:Can't believe Middleton BIOS didn't get burnt successfully back then.
What do you mean with this?
I have USB sticks and CDs with them.
Same here... just thought perhaps my attempt to burn Middleton BIOS failed somehow despite giving that long beep usually signalling success.


Btw what exactly does BIOS do (i.e. send to the chipset etc) when configured for AHCI as opposed to IDE/Legacy/Compatibility? Asking that with my T43 in mind, which sadly has no such switch while ICH6M chipset does support AHCI
Last edited by dandreye on Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
X1G1 3460-1F4, 2x X61s 7667-34G, X61s 7667-Y24, X61s 7667-WQ8, X61s 7666-AA5, X60s 1702-W96, T43 2669-YJ6, T42 2373-Q91

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Re: Set your expectation to 135 Mo/s.

#7 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:15 pm

dandreye wrote:Btw what exactly does BIOS do (i.e. send to the chipset etc) when configured for AHCI as opposed to IDE/Legacy/Compatibility? Asking that with my T43 in mind, which sadly has no such switch while ICH6M chipset does support AHCI.
The T43 was the first Thinkpad designed for SATA, hence the (hidden) AHCI in BIOS and chipset.
How that works? No idea.
At the time the T43 came out, SATA drives were still very rare and expensive, so it was more user/budget-friendly to add the SATA-to-IDE chip and stay with IDE drives.
The SATA-mod removed that chip and replaced the IDE-connector with a SATA one, the way it was intended.
Everything else stayed the same, except there was now no more drive-capacity limit.
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Re: Set your expectation to 135 Mo/s.

#8 Post by dandreye » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:20 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote: The T43 was the first Thinkpad designed for SATA, hence the (hidden) AHCI in BIOS and chipset.
How that works? No idea.
At the time the T43 came out, SATA drives were still very rare and expensive, so it was more user/budget-friendly to add the SATA-to-IDE chip and stay with IDE drives.
The SATA-mod removed that chip and replaced the IDE-connector with a SATA one, the way it was intended.
Everything else stayed the same, except there was now no more drive-capacity limit.
I think if an evidence of at least one ICH6M-based AHCI capable laptop regardless of the make exists it should be doable on T43 too...
X1G1 3460-1F4, 2x X61s 7667-34G, X61s 7667-Y24, X61s 7667-WQ8, X61s 7666-AA5, X60s 1702-W96, T43 2669-YJ6, T42 2373-Q91

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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#9 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:26 pm

FYI: I have done between 70 and 100 of those SATA-mods on T43/R52...
http://theboardroom.info/sata_mods.html

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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#10 Post by dandreye » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:41 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:FYI: I have done between 70 and 100 of those SATA-mods on T43/R52...
http://theboardroom.info/sata_mods.html
Modded mine on Christmas (mechanically, if you happen to remember my recent post). Enabling AHCI on it somehow is my next thought.

Let's move to the T4x section as it's an offtopic here.
X1G1 3460-1F4, 2x X61s 7667-34G, X61s 7667-Y24, X61s 7667-WQ8, X61s 7666-AA5, X60s 1702-W96, T43 2669-YJ6, T42 2373-Q91

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Re: Set your expectation to 135 Mo/s.

#11 Post by Shredder11 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:21 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:
dandreye wrote:Btw what exactly does BIOS do (i.e. send to the chipset etc) when configured for AHCI as opposed to IDE/Legacy/Compatibility? Asking that with my T43 in mind, which sadly has no such switch while ICH6M chipset does support AHCI.
The T43 was the first Thinkpad designed for SATA, hence the (hidden) AHCI in BIOS and chipset.
How that works? No idea.
At the time the T43 came out, SATA drives were still very rare and expensive, so it was more user/budget-friendly to add the SATA-to-IDE chip and stay with IDE drives.
The SATA-mod removed that chip and replaced the IDE-connector with a SATA one, the way it was intended.
Everything else stayed the same, except there was now no more drive-capacity limit.
I have a T43p 2668-PEG and I have flashed the BIOS with a modded one mentioned on this site before, T43p-1YET65WW_SLIC2.1_no_1802_no_2010.iso

I did not see the AHCI anywhere in the BIOS and then stupidly forgot and installed Windows 7 Pro and it obviously ran very badly indeed. So if this setting is hidden, does that mean I have to manually make it active somehow? Oh and on a different note I noticed that my T43p differs slightly from the MTM info, as mine has a 256MB AMD V3200 GPU chip, a 2.0GHz CPU.
Z61p x3 (C2D T7600, 3GB, 500GB SSD, BCM70015, Advanced Dock x1, Mini Dock x2)
X61 (C2D T7500, 3GB, 250GB SSD, BCM70015)
X61s (2GB, 120GB SSD)
X60s (CD L2400, 3GB, 160GB)
T43p (P M 760, 2GB, IBM Port Replicator II)
G40 x2 (P4 2.8GHz, 2GB, 60GB)
G41 (P4 3.46GHz, 2GB, 40GB)

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Re: Set your expectation to 135 Mo/s.

#12 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:06 pm

Shredder11 wrote:
I have a T43p 2668-PEG and I have flashed the BIOS with a modded one mentioned on this site before, T43p-1YET65WW_SLIC2.1_no_1802_no_2010.iso

I did not see the AHCI anywhere in the BIOS and then stupidly forgot and installed Windows 7 Pro and it obviously ran very badly indeed. So if this setting is hidden, does that mean I have to manually make it active somehow?
It can't be enabled.
Oh and on a different note I noticed that my T43p differs slightly from the MTM info, as mine has a 256MB AMD V3200 GPU chip, a 2.0GHz CPU.
V3200 actually has 128 MB VRAM, but is capable of "borrowing" another 128 MB from the "main" RAM, and that's why Windows sees it as 256 MB.
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Re: Set your expectation to 135 Mo/s.

#13 Post by dandreye » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:03 am

ajkula66 wrote:It can't be enabled.
Here's a separate thread I created earlier specifically on AHCI for T43:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=123041

I later raised it with Intel and that thread has recently gone private at their initiative. Will keep everyone updated in the unlikely case that I ever manage to get anything out of them.
X1G1 3460-1F4, 2x X61s 7667-34G, X61s 7667-Y24, X61s 7667-WQ8, X61s 7666-AA5, X60s 1702-W96, T43 2669-YJ6, T42 2373-Q91

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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#14 Post by Shredder11 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:24 am

Regards my 256MB video memory, I did wonder if it was using shared RAM.

As for AHCI that seems interesting about the chipset command switch. So are we to assume toggling that switch does not do anything to enable AHCI? Also how come there are people saying Windows 7 installs and works okay for them?
Z61p x3 (C2D T7600, 3GB, 500GB SSD, BCM70015, Advanced Dock x1, Mini Dock x2)
X61 (C2D T7500, 3GB, 250GB SSD, BCM70015)
X61s (2GB, 120GB SSD)
X60s (CD L2400, 3GB, 160GB)
T43p (P M 760, 2GB, IBM Port Replicator II)
G40 x2 (P4 2.8GHz, 2GB, 60GB)
G41 (P4 3.46GHz, 2GB, 40GB)

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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#15 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:37 am

What Thinkpad(s) are you referring to?
Anything from T60/R60/X60 upwards runs W7 no problem.
On T43/R52/X41 it runs so-so, on any older machine it's not really recommended.
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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#16 Post by dandreye » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:09 pm

Shredder11 wrote:As for AHCI that seems interesting about the chipset command switch. So are we to assume toggling that switch does not do anything to enable AHCI?
I feel there's somewhat more to it but hopefully not that overcomplicated... let's hope Intel will get back to me with further details.
Shredder11 wrote:Also how come there are people saying Windows 7 installs and works okay for them?
I can confirm W7 is running perfectly fine on my SATA modded T43 with ATI graphics. I wasn't expecting any issues because of the lack of AHCI anyway: W7 (and up, where applicable for the platform) doesn't care. Afaik AHCI brings along hot swapping of hard drives if the mobo chipset also supports it, and it also enables NCQ for hard drives if they support it. Even TRIM, being part of ATA-8 ACS-2 command set (specifically DATA SET MANAGEMENT command 0x06), doesn't need AHCI and reportedly works fine even in legacy/compatibility/IDE mode (and over real IDE I suppose), particularly under W7. Unfortunately the SSD in my T43 is an Intel X25-M G1 (no built-in TRIM support), so I cannot check that myself.
X1G1 3460-1F4, 2x X61s 7667-34G, X61s 7667-Y24, X61s 7667-WQ8, X61s 7666-AA5, X60s 1702-W96, T43 2669-YJ6, T42 2373-Q91

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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#17 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:52 pm

Shredder11 wrote: So are we to assume toggling that switch does not do anything to enable AHCI?
Yes.
Also how come there are people saying Windows 7 installs and works okay for them?
SATA-mod + SSD is the key.
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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#18 Post by Shredder11 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:03 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:What Thinkpad(s) are you referring to?
Anything from T60/R60/X60 upwards runs W7 no problem.
On T43/R52/X41 it runs so-so, on any older machine it's not really recommended.
I've successfully installed Win 7 on various Thinkpads including my Z61p, G41, X61, X61s. That said the G41 also lacks AHCI and yet works fine, e.g. did not slow to the point where each mouse click takes literally a minute or two before anything happens.
Z61p x3 (C2D T7600, 3GB, 500GB SSD, BCM70015, Advanced Dock x1, Mini Dock x2)
X61 (C2D T7500, 3GB, 250GB SSD, BCM70015)
X61s (2GB, 120GB SSD)
X60s (CD L2400, 3GB, 160GB)
T43p (P M 760, 2GB, IBM Port Replicator II)
G40 x2 (P4 2.8GHz, 2GB, 60GB)
G41 (P4 3.46GHz, 2GB, 40GB)

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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#19 Post by Shredder11 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:08 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Shredder11 wrote: So are we to assume toggling that switch does not do anything to enable AHCI?
Yes.
Also how come there are people saying Windows 7 installs and works okay for them?
SATA-mod + SSD is the key.
I have a Panasonic mSATA SSD + adapter to convert to IDE. CrystalDiskMark reports a sequential read speed inside Win XP Pro of around 93MB/s, and 88MB/s write speed. I did not bother attempting to try this test inside Win 7, because it would have taken hours just to initiate.
Z61p x3 (C2D T7600, 3GB, 500GB SSD, BCM70015, Advanced Dock x1, Mini Dock x2)
X61 (C2D T7500, 3GB, 250GB SSD, BCM70015)
X61s (2GB, 120GB SSD)
X60s (CD L2400, 3GB, 160GB)
T43p (P M 760, 2GB, IBM Port Replicator II)
G40 x2 (P4 2.8GHz, 2GB, 60GB)
G41 (P4 3.46GHz, 2GB, 40GB)

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Re: Low Intel X25-M G2 SSD read speed in X60s with AHCI

#20 Post by dandreye » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:35 pm

Shredder11 wrote: I have a Panasonic mSATA SSD + adapter to convert to IDE. CrystalDiskMark reports a sequential read speed inside Win XP Pro of around 93MB/s, and 88MB/s write speed. I did not bother attempting to try this test inside Win 7, because it would have taken hours just to initiate.
Judging by these fitures your adapter is likely a Lycom ST-173-7 one (or one of its several clones) as cheap JM20330-based ones usually have a bit lower figures (not exceeding 90MB/s IIRC). I have a Lycom ST-173-7 with Samsung PM830 SSD in my T42 and it works perfectly well under W7 albeit somewhat slower than W7 on my SATA modded T43 with Intel X25-M SSD: similar speeds to yours, great response... well, as great as it can be on such an ancient platform. Neither T42 nor T43 have AHCI in their BIOS. Looks like the issue is specific to SATA-IDE-SATA bridging in your T43p coupled with some W7 functionality not present in WXP.
X1G1 3460-1F4, 2x X61s 7667-34G, X61s 7667-Y24, X61s 7667-WQ8, X61s 7666-AA5, X60s 1702-W96, T43 2669-YJ6, T42 2373-Q91

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