Thinkpads Forum

When in working in wireless mode for awhile I definelty can feel the radios waves and like a cell phone a get a slight headache.
Are these radiowaves as strong or stronger than those of a cellular phone? Has any1 ever brought up any saftey issues about sitting on top of a wireless laptop all day? safe? JL

I'm jjjust fffffine afffter workkkking on ittt all ddday.

Seriously though, I haven't noticed any difference.

jl123 wrote:When in working in wireless mode for awhile I definelty can feel the radios waves and like a cell phone a get a slight headache.
Are these radiowaves as strong or stronger than those of a cellular phone? Has any1 ever brought up any saftey issues about sitting on top of a wireless laptop all day? safe? JL

WiFi signal levels are lower (weaker) than cellphone signal levels.

I feel more sterile than normal, but I'm perfectly happy with that. =]

Really though, get that checked out.

jl123 wrote:When in working in wireless mode for awhile I definelty can feel the radios waves and like a cell phone a get a slight headache.
Are these radiowaves as strong or stronger than those of a cellular phone? Has any1 ever brought up any saftey issues about sitting on top of a wireless laptop all day? safe? JL

I agree with the previous response that cell phones are much stronger. They need to travel much farther, AND it's usually a lot closer to your head. However, I highly doubt that you can actually sense either emission source. It's most likely in your head. You should run a double blind test with cellphones that are either "in a call" or "off". If it turns out that you do have this sixth sense, write it up in a medical journal, cause you may just be famous!

I get a headache when I sleep next to my cellphone left on. However, with the notebook, not so much.

I worked for an IC designhouse making Wi-Fi chipsets.
and trust me,,,,

someone is more sensitive to wireless radio signal.
and I mean it is not uncommon, however, the power transmitted is
pretty low.

2.4Ghz in 802.11b/g is very near to the microwave.
that is the frequency making water rotate and heat for your food.

anyway, it is case-by-case and is different among everyone.

For every person there is something that they'll be sensitive too, how miniscule the dose is.

I like to present it in this way: do you stick your head in the microwave oven every day for 5, 10 or 15 seconds? If not, why are you using a cellphone every day?

I used to be a HAM (amateur radio operator) and we were told not to get too close to a transmitting antenna. Yet these days far more penetrating microwaves are supposed to be safe?

Whenever I can I switch of the wireless and use a cable.

Marinus

like to present it in this way: do you stick your head in the microwave oven every day for 5, 10 or 15 seconds? If not, why are you using a cellphone every day?

Your analogy is flawed. Cellular phones use the spectrum around 900 and 1900 MHz, and the emitted power is around 27 dBm, or 500 mW. Microwave is 2.4 GHz (which is the frequency used to heat water) and power is closer to 500 W. That means it's about 1000 times more powerful, and on a more dangerous frequency. Using your cell phone is nothing like sticking your head in a microwave.

I used to be a HAM (amateur radio operator) and we were told not to get too close to a transmitting antenna.

Yes, being too close to a transmitter of many Watts at any frequency can be dangerous. If you climb a high power radio tower, your fillings are likely to heat up. The power levels we are talking about are extremey different.

someone is more sensitive to wireless radio signal.
and I mean it is not uncommon, however, the power transmitted is
pretty low.

2.4Ghz in 802.11b/g is very near to the microwave.
that is the frequency making water rotate and heat for your food.

This is true, but I am really surprised at the number of people here who believe they are sensitive to the miniscule power ranges we're talking about here. Yes, the 2.4 GHz wifi frequency is more dangerous than your cell phone, but the transmission power is around −70 dBm, or 0.0000001 mW. This is a trillion times weaker than your microwave oven.

There have been many studies of this subject, and there are other factors such as reflection due to body density that I'm not even considering. At the power and absorption levels we are talking about, the temperature of your body is affected so negligably that the effect of radio waves is not even worth considering.

If you are sensing the waves in some way other than a temperature change, then I again would ask you to do a double blind test. A small amount of effort will clear up the matter, and possibly give you great data for a paper that would affect every modern citizen in the world.

My guess is that this is psycological or related to other issues such as the side effects of prolonged concentration, looking at a backlit screen, having cell phone audio pumped directly into your ear canal, etc. I know that I experience discomfort after prolonged use of headphones.

trentblase wrote:

like to present it in this way: do you stick your head in the microwave oven every day for 5, 10 or 15 seconds? If not, why are you using a cellphone every day?

Your analogy is flawed. Cellular phones use the spectrum around 900 and 1900 MHz, and the emitted power is around 27 dBm, or 500 mW. Microwave is 2.4 GHz (which is the frequency used to heat water) and power is closer to 500 W. That means it's about 1000 times more powerful, and on a more dangerous frequency. Using your cell phone is nothing like sticking your head in a microwave.

I used to be a HAM (amateur radio operator) and we were told not to get too close to a transmitting antenna.

Yes, being too close to a transmitter of many Watts at any frequency can be dangerous. If you climb a high power radio tower, your fillings are likely to heat up. The power levels we are talking about are extremey different.

someone is more sensitive to wireless radio signal.
and I mean it is not uncommon, however, the power transmitted is
pretty low.

2.4Ghz in 802.11b/g is very near to the microwave.
that is the frequency making water rotate and heat for your food.

This is true, but I am really surprised at the number of people here who believe they are sensitive to the miniscule power ranges we're talking about here. Yes, the 2.4 GHz wifi frequency is more dangerous than your cell phone, but the transmission power is around −70 dBm, or 0.0000001 mW. This is a trillion times weaker than your microwave oven.

There have been many studies of this subject, and there are other factors such as reflection due to body density that I'm not even considering. At the power and absorption levels we are talking about, the temperature of your body is affected so negligably that the effect of radio waves is not even worth considering.

If you are sensing the waves in some way other than a temperature change, then I again would ask you to do a double blind test. A small amount of effort will clear up the matter, and possibly give you great data for a paper that would affect every modern citizen in the world.

My guess is that this is psycological or related to other issues such as the side effects of prolonged concentration, looking at a backlit screen, having cell phone audio pumped directly into your ear canal, etc. I know that I experience discomfort after prolonged use of headphones.

If you would have ever been treated succesfully by someone who knows how properly to apply homeopathy then you would sing a different song.

But alas, I suppose those things will be beyond the reasoning of "scientists".

I had a blood condition that was "incurable", now the doctors tell me " never heard off, a sponteneous remision". Yeah right. Same when my son had hepatitis C and two weeks later "strange, bloodtests show no trace, must have been some mix up on samples".

Unfortunately good homeopaths are even scarcer than succesful futures traders.

Peace

Marinus

Perhaps this explains why I glow in the dark after long periods of computing.

vital-analitix wrote: If you would have ever been treated succesfully by someone who knows how properly to apply homeopathy then you would sing a different song.

But alas, I suppose those things will be beyond the reasoning of "scientists".

I had a blood condition that was "incurable", now the doctors tell me " never heard off, a sponteneous remision". Yeah right. Same when my son had hepatitis C and two weeks later "strange, bloodtests show no trace, must have been some mix up on samples".

Unfortunately good homeopaths are even scarcer than succesful futures traders.

Peace

Marinus

I guess this is way off topic now, but I appreciate your point of view. While I have not seen any specific data to back this up, my gut tells me that homeopathy CAN work as you describe. But the big question in my mind is whether this is due to a modified placebo effect. Either way, there are many things that happen with the human body that is beyond the ability of science to explain. The placebo effect is the best example of this -- we can prove it exists even though we do not understand the mechanism behind it.

The discussion was not about homeopathy, however, it was about headaches caused by radio waves. If this was a real phenomenon, it should be easy to measure scientifically (even though we may not be able to explain it scientifically). I am not being condescending when I repeatedly request a more rigorous testing methodology -- I would be amazed if this effect turned out to be provable. However, history is littered with anecdotal accounts that didn't prove to be true upon close examination.