Thinkpads Forum

Subject says it all:

http://www.linuxelectrons.com/article.p ... 5094703459

Innovative new display solutions announced today for the mobile computing market include a lightweight, ultra-thin glass 14.1-inch SXGA+ (1400x1050) liquid crystal display (LCD) for notebook PCs, a 12.1-inch WXGA (1280x768) LCD for wide-format mobile PCs, a 12.1-inch SXGA+ LCD for Tablet PCs

Possbile. High resolution 12" tablet displays have been around for a while (I'm typing this on a two year old Toshiba M200 tablet with a 1400x1050 LCD). However, Lenovo has been reluctant to up the rez of the 12" LCDs on the regular X60/s, so it's unclear what reason they would have to do it on the tablet.

foodle wrote:Possbile. High resolution 12" tablet displays have been around for a while (I'm typing this on a two year old Toshiba M200 tablet with a 1400x1050 LCD). However, Lenovo has been reluctant to up the rez of the 12" LCDs on the regular X60/s, so it's unclear what reason they would have to do it on the tablet.

I see I was wrong about the "new" part. How do you like the display? Do you have to increase font, etc. sizes?

Certainly I'd like more resolution than XGA (having been spoiled by a succession of 14" SXGA+ ThinkPads). With the higher res (and a CoreDuo processor) they could make a "p" model of the X series. I bet there's a market for that.

Now that battery power is so good, the extra power required for the screen isn't as big a deal.

Tab wrote:I see I was wrong about the "new" part.

Well the URL you posted was from 2004

How do you like the display? Do you have to increase font, etc. sizes?

I like the resolution a lot. I don't increase the font sizes or anything. Sometimes text can be a little small, but I'm not too sensitive to that. It's enough screen real estate to be able to use multiple windows. You get small form factor and high resolution. One downside is that Toshiba covered the screen with a rough matte coating (presumably for better tablet stylus tactile feel), and it gives everything a grainy look.

Certainly I'd like more resolution than XGA (having been spoiled by a succession of 14" SXGA+ ThinkPads). With the higher res (and a CoreDuo processor) they could make a "p" model of the X series. I bet there's a market for that.

Lenovo keeps claiming that there's no demand for high res 12" laptops. I don't believe that's the case, but that's their excuse for keeping the X series at 1024x768.

foodle wrote:You get small form factor and high resolution. One downside is that Toshiba covered the screen with a rough matte coating (presumably for better tablet stylus tactile feel), and it gives everything a grainy look.

Hey, thanks for responding!

I'll see if I can make a poll on the subject.

Funny thing, I just noticed you're in RTP. I'm in Chapel Hill until Tuesday.

I say the chance of this happening anytime soon is zero. If Lenovo ever changes it's mind on small high-res displays, it will probably not be called X60. I'm firmly in the "no need for those resolutions" camp for ultraportables. It's not that I'm opposed to super high resolutions, I'd love 150 or 300 dpi for the clearest text ever. The problem is that higher resolutions suck up exponentially more power from the lcd driver and video card, not to mention the potential CPU overhead. Since I want top battery life, I can live with 1024x768. (Consider that resolution isn't something you can throttle down like a cpu -- you will always have to drive those pixels even if you lower the resolution in the OS)

trentblase wrote:The problem is that higher resolutions suck up exponentially more power from the lcd driver and video card, not to mention the potential CPU overhead.

I didn't see any figures on this, but I have to wonder how much more power it would use. The backlight is probably the same and the total area of lit pixels is the same. Sure there are a lot more pixels, but with Vista on the horizon, systems will come with powerful video cards anyways.

Since I want top battery life, I can live with 1024x768. (Consider that resolution isn't something you can throttle down like a cpu -- you will always have to drive those pixels even if you lower the resolution in the OS)

In theory you could drive less of the screen, but there'd still be backlighting. But with battery life reaching/exceeding 8 hours, I think others (including myself) would be willing to have a bit less battery life and much higher resolution.

Then of course there is this interesting BIOS update for the X60 Series: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=25529 which includes "(Fix) 1400 x 1050 pixels can be selected as a screen resolution by Display property or an application softtware. (BIOS)"

The exponential figure was kinda out of my [censored], but the premise is valid. I didn't mean overall power usage would increase exponentially, just the pixel drive power, which is probably a small percentage of overall.

You can't ever reduce the resolution in hardware -- each pixel means more transistors to drive them regardless of whether you are scaling up from a lower resolution in the OS. If you double the pixel density, you are quadrupling the number of pixels, and thus the drive power (even though each pixel will be 1/4 the size, I do not think that the savings would scale linearly -- much of the drive strenth is probably related to the trace length, which will be the same. Perhaps a screen engineer can chime in and put me in my place?) You are also quadrupling the amount of memory needed in the frame buffer, which will end up trickling into higher requirements for the video card and cpu.

With that said, everybody has different requirements -- you are obviously willing to place a higher value on resolution. I understand that there will be a minority who feel resolution > 1024x768 is important... I was merely pointing out that they are the minority, and therefore Lenovo is unlikely to revamp a shipping product to accomodate them.

trentblase wrote:You can't ever reduce the resolution in hardware -- each pixel means more transistors to drive them regardless of whether you are scaling up from a lower resolution in the OS.

I was suggesting it might be possible to just power the hardware needed to display a 1024x768 (or whatever) set of pixels in the center of the screen. But without LCD backlighting even that approach wouldn't save much power.

With that said, everybody has different requirements -- you are obviously willing to place a higher value on resolution.

Well, depending on the application(s), there can be such a proliferation of menus, toolbars, etc. it's hard to find much usable area on even 1400x1050.

I understand that there will be a minority who feel resolution > 1024x768 is important... I was merely pointing out that they are the minority, and therefore Lenovo is unlikely to revamp a shipping product to accomodate them.

So far they are the majority of this poll:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=25518

Also, with the new X60 hardware (and a high-res lcd), it's finally possible to have an X Series "mobile workstation" in the same class as a ThinkPad Txxp. That kind of offering would appeal to a lot of people. And Toshiba's been successful with the M200 series, so demand for a 12" high-res tablet has been going elsewhere since Lenovo isn't offering one.

I was suggesting it might be possible to just power the hardware needed to display a 1024x768 (or whatever) set of pixels in the center of the screen. But without LCD backlighting even that approach wouldn't save much power.

This is not feasable. The default (off) state of an lcd pixel is actually transparent (lit). A black screen (with the backlight on) is the most power intensive state. I guess if you didn't mind a white border, it would save some power, but the base hardware would still be refreshing those low power pixels to "white... white... white..." every refresh cycle.

So far they are the majority of this poll:

Oh, I absolutely agree that high resolution is good. I myself voted for "I would buy this". But most people answering the poll assume that this means a high-res screen with all other specs equal. It does not get into depth about how much more people are willing to pay, how much battery life they are willing to sacrifice, etc. Plus, the survey respondents are somewhat self-selecting, as only people interested in high-res screens are likely to read a thread with high-res in the subject line.

Anyways, I'm enjoying this back and forth and want to make sure you realize that I'm not trying to flame or get into a fight or anything.

Oh, I absolutely agree that high resolution is good. I myself voted for "I would buy this". But most people answering the poll assume that this means a high-res screen with all other specs equal. It does not get into depth about how much more people are willing to pay, how much battery life they are willing to sacrifice, etc.

The unknown battery life issue aside, the high-res screen adds only US $50 to the Toshiba M400 retail price.

Anyways, I'm enjoying this back and forth and want to make sure you realize that I'm not trying to flame or get into a fight or anything.

The same. Though I think we're running out of things to say.

In any event, I hope Lenovo announces the new tablet soon so I can pull the trigger on it or something else.

The new tablet will undoubtedly be built off the existing X60/X60s platform, which itself doesn't have a higher than 1024 res option. I don't think the chances are very good for a res bump any time soon, as the demand just isn't there.

MG.

MobileGuru wrote:The new tablet will undoubtedly be built off the existing X60/X60s platform, which itself doesn't have a higher than 1024 res option.

Support has been added in the latest BIOS, as I mentioned above.

I don't think the chances are very good for a res bump any time soon, as the demand just isn't there.

I'm curious how you arrived at that conclusion. I think now that the horsepower will be similar to what the T Series offers, more people will be interested in an X Series. XGA is fine for web and email, but not so much for CAD or menu- and toolbar-filled IDEs. An X Series with a high-res screen would fit between the T Series and and the XGA X Series in terms of functionality and battery life.

Tab, what makes you think that Lenovo is due to announce new models any time soon?

Personally I am dying for an X60s with anything above XGA resolution. Dying. If they released one I'd be first inline on the lenovo site to buy one period.

That being said, I wonder if there is any serious way to petition Lenovo and actually get them to make one.

Antioch wrote:Tab, what makes you think that Lenovo is due to announce new models any time soon?

Other than changing the BIOS? Nothing. I don't have any insider information. I do want a high-res, high power ThinkPad tablet, though.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=24948

Take a look at the pdf linked to in the beginning of that thread. Scroll down through it until you get to the X series information. If you look at the X60 in the roadmap you'll see that it's due for a minor refresh in Q3 2006. Who know's what Lenovo will do, most likely might be a bit of a speed upgrade. Anyways, if there was only some way to get them to offer an option of a SXGA+ screen upgrade...

I really really want X60s + SXGA.