Warmpalm rests on x60 and x60s - what is the concensus?

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IBM_x31_ · #1 Post by **IBM_x31_** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:38 pm

I am a very happy owner of an IBM X31 looking to upgrade to an x60 or x60s. One of the things I like about the x31, among many, is the fact that the palm rests don't get warm at all. Most other computers have the hdd under the palm rest and it makes the palm rest warm.

Reading on this board there have been reports of x60 and x60s that are warm or even hot under the palm rest so that your hand is warmed while you type. This seems to be on some machines but not others. Some have reported it is related to the wireless card that is installed and whether or not there is wwan.

Are people still getting warm palm rest machines?
Is it the x60, x60s or both that are affected?
Is it only the wwan machines or are normal a/b/g wireless machines affected?

Thanks...

christopher_wolf · #2 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:45 pm

I just tried out an X60 that my friend recently got; besides the other excellent features, the palmrest got only warm and never hot. I estimate the temperature might have been going to 39°C or 41°C. It never seemed to get any hotter even when I stressed the system. It had both WWAN and Wireless.

HTH

NJ_IT · #3 Post by **NJ_IT** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:59 pm

I have a X60 ,in case of with originally intel wireless module,it was not
warm.
But after replaced with IBM a/b/g module( Atheros),it has been a bit hot on the right side of palmrest.
I tried out previous X60s with intel wireless module, it was not so warm.

domi · #4 Post by **domi** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:29 am

NJ_IT wrote:I have a X60 ,in case of with originally intel wireless module,it was not warm.
But after replaced with IBM a/b/g module( Atheros),it has been a bit hot on the right side of palmrest.
I tried out previous X60s with intel wireless module, it was not so warm.

Strange: I was under the impression it was the Intel card that ran hot, while the Atheros one was cooler. Did I get it wrong?

smvp6459 · #5 Post by **smvp6459** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:56 am

I have an X60s and I'm having a hard time figuring out what the deal is. The left palm rest is far cooler than the right but the right isn't bad. I have have the Intel card but it doesn't seem overly warm, just a little heat radiating up. The thing is, I get heat whether the wireless card is on or not. I haven't tried disabling it in the BIOS though. I think some of the heat is coming from the harddrive and the fact that I have a 7200 probably doesn't help. I don't know if I imagined it, but I feel like when I disabled the infrared the temperature went down...probably my imagination though.

Right now the thermal zones are both 45C, the harddrive is 38C, and the battery is at 27C.

foodle · #6 Post by **foodle** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:00 pm

My X60s just returned from the repair depot for a very hot right palmrest. The APS sensor reached 61C at one point when using WiFi and charging the battery at the same time. From the available (anecdotal) data, my machine was definitely hotter than the average X60s. After repair (which included replacement of the planar card), the APS sensor tops out around 52C, which is still noticeable, but not uncomfortable. I originally ordered the machine in mid-May. The machine has the Atheros card.

When I called Lenovo, they were aware of the issue and immediately recommended I send the machine in. Good service on their part.

NJ_IT · #7 Post by **NJ_IT** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:11 pm

>domi
Strange: I was under the impression it was the Intel card that ran hot, while the Atheros one was cooler. Did I get it wrong?

Not sure your case.....

I checked the sensitivity selection of Thinkvantage access connection for this Atheros module. It is 'power saving mode',but actually a bit hot!
For me, it is reasonable because I heard ThinkPad designer selected Intel chip for more power saving .
And Atheros module needs more power for more sensitivity to catch signals compared to Intel chip.

domi · #8 Post by **domi** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:58 am

NJ_IT wrote: Not sure your case.....
I checked the sensitivity selection of Thinkvantage access connection for this Atheros module. It is 'power saving mode',but actually a bit hot!
For me, it is reasonable because I heard ThinkPad designer selected Intel chip for more power saving .
And Atheros module needs more power for more sensitivity to catch signals compared to Intel chip.

Here is the (long) thread - started on Apr-15 - I had in mind: Wifi card heat problem
I'm really interested in knowing the answer, because I'd definitely favour a slower/less sensitive, but cooler card over a faster/more sensitive, but hotter one. And I really love the fact that both sides of my X31's palm rest are perfectly cool.

NJ_IT · #9 Post by **NJ_IT** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:02 am

>domi

I talked about PCI express type Atheros card for my X60.
We need to consider the possibility of different behaivor between PCI-express type IBM atheros card(for X60,Z,T60) and Mini-PCI type atheros card(for T4x,X3x,....).
Something changed ? or not? other than interface.

trentblase · #10 Post by **trentblase** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:01 pm

I'm not sure there IS a consensus. If there hasn't been a poll yet, that may be a good way to find out. For my part, I don't think the palmrest is uncomfortably hot and my APS temp usually stays pretty low. I think the machine gets warmer than it should in general, but not to the extent that I would rather have a different machine.

ajwells · #11 Post by **ajwells** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:29 pm

I know this is a stupid question, but how do you check the temperature on your X60? Does the TPfancontrol program work on the X series? My palmrest is warm but not blazing hot... just curious how to check it

Andrew

sugo · #12 Post by **sugo** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:33 pm

TPfancontrol can show temperatures of your X60. For the right palm rest it's the APS sensor.

@RT · #13 Post by **@RT** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:27 am

hi foodle,
my X60s does reach 61C too when it's charging and wireless is on. should i send it to repair? how to tell them? please suggest. thanks.

#14 Post by **archer6** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:20 pm

@RT wrote:my X60s does reach 61C too when it's charging and wireless is on. should i send it to repair? how to tell them? please suggest. thanks.

Just one of the several X60 / X60s models that I ordered for the company was that warm and we sent it back and they replaced it under the 30 day period. If yours is outside that 30 day period and you cannot return it, then by all means call the service department and they will be happy to repair if for you. All you have to do is describe the problem and the temps, they will recognize the issue and be happy to take care of it for you.

foodle · #15 Post by **foodle** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:58 pm

I sent my machine in for repair and got it back within a few days. They swapped out the planar card (motherboard) and the new palmrest gets warm, but not hot. I did not do a return/re-purchase as I was afraid that it would take a while to get the new machine. When I called tech support, they seemed aware of the problem and immediately suggested I send the machine in for repair. I don't think they will hassle you about this as it seems to be a problem known to Lenovo.

david25 · #16 Post by **david25** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:38 am

Hi, using TPfancontrol, i see about 48'c on the APS sensor (x60 1.8ghz), I'm not happy about the fan noise, so tying a x60s soon.

Regards

sugo · #17 Post by **sugo** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:52 am

48'C on a palm rest is indeed higher than most people want. I hope that X61/s will have that fixed.

foodle · #18 Post by **foodle** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:52 am

sugo wrote:48'C on a palm rest is indeed higher than most people want. I hope that X61/s will have that fixed.

48C is actually quite reasonable for the APS sensor temp. Remember, this is the internal sensor temp, not the temp of the palmrest surface.

#19 Post by **archer6** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:45 am

sugo wrote:48'C on a palm rest is indeed higher than most people want. I hope that X61/s will have that fixed.

It's already "fixed".

I have purchased (to date) a quantity of 41, X60 & X60s models for my company and we have had only one, that I mentioned earlier with the heat issue. Sent it back, recieved a new one that is perfect. So in my opinion this is a non issue. Yes some people on this forum have experienced the problem, I acknowledge that. However there are thousands of others out there that are just fine. One can visit any auto dealership in the USA and find that they all have a service department to fix the cars with problems. So therefore all you will see there, are the cars with problems as the good ones are out being driven about problem free. Same thing applies here, only the computers with problems are being discussed. That does not mean that they are all bad. Or that one must wait for the next new model or generation for the "problem to be fixed". In addition, for the most part this forum is populated by enthusiast's, engineers, computer professionals, etc. Therefore it's only natural the we (myself included) are going to be more discerning, focused, and even obsessed by matters that the average user is not even going to notice. Also as we know, ThinkPads are premium corporate (not neccessarily consumer) machines. Used by people with a higher than average intellect when it comes to technology, and hence, more knowledable and aware of the slightest variances.

foodle · #20 Post by **foodle** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:31 pm

Well said archer6.

Also remember that the X61(s) will have a whole new set of issues

.

lucas · #21 Post by **lucas** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:30 pm

i got my x60s today, and the right palm rest is pretty hot.

x60s 1705-43u: 5200rpm, atheros, no wwan

CPU 52°C (0x78)
APS 55°C (0x79)
GPU 51°C (0x7b)
BAT 42°C (0x7c)
BAT 40°C (0x7e)
BUS 48°C (0xc0)
PCI 44°C (0xc1)

smvp6459 · #22 Post by **smvp6459** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:26 pm

lucas wrote:i got my x60s today, and the right palm rest is pretty hot.

x60s 1705-43u: 5200rpm, atheros, no wwan
APS 55°C (0x79)

That's pretty hot...mine runs at around 45°C with the Intel card and a 7200RPM drive.

snife · #23 Post by **snife** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:32 pm

archer6 wrote:
sugo wrote:48'C on a palm rest is indeed higher than most people want. I hope that X61/s will have that fixed.
It's already "fixed".

I have purchased (to date) a quantity of 41, X60 & X60s models for my company and we have had only one, that I mentioned earlier with the heat issue. Sent it back, recieved a new one that is perfect. So in my opinion this is a non issue. Yes some people on this forum have experienced the problem, I acknowledge that. However there are thousands of others out there that are just fine. One can visit any auto dealership in the USA and find that they all have a service department to fix the cars with problems. So therefore all you will see there, are the cars with problems as the good ones are out being driven about problem free. Same thing applies here, only the computers with problems are being discussed. That does not mean that they are all bad. Or that one must wait for the next new model or generation for the "problem to be fixed". In addition, for the most part this forum is populated by enthusiast's, engineers, computer professionals, etc. Therefore it's only natural the we (myself included) are going to be more discerning, focused, and even obsessed by matters that the average user is not even going to notice. Also as we know, ThinkPads are premium corporate (not neccessarily consumer) machines. Used by people with a higher than average intellect when it comes to technology, and hence, more knowledable and aware of the slightest variances.

archer6, i'm not aware of any fix being implemented and am wondering if it is maybe a batch issue - don't suppose you have the FRU numbers of the old wireless card from the hot machine and from the new one?

#24 Post by **archer6** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:20 pm

snife wrote:archer6, i'm not aware of any fix being implemented and am wondering if it is maybe a batch issue - don't suppose you have the FRU numbers of the old wireless card from the hot machine and from the new one?

For clarification, I was _not_ suggesting that there was an "official fix" ie: new part/recall or what have you. What I _was_ suggesting is that there is _not_ a specific model wide problem. Just an issue on a machine by machine basis, for which there is a warranty to address the "problem with the individual machine affected". The same as one receives a warranty on a new BMW automobile etc. Based on my careful read of each report here on the forum, is that there is no "specific set of data points" shared by each computer with this issue. Temps were varied, testing conditions varied, testing methods varied. So therefore we cannot scientifically state that there is a "problem with overheating" because of "X" being the problem. Furthermore to add to the variables we have a mix of personal opinion, personal preferences and perceptions.

To answer your question I agree with you, there may have been a bad "batch" of cards from the supplier.

Finally, had I not personally observed so many of these models myself (now over 50 in my company, without any problems) than perhaps my opinion would be different. However having the opportunity to "see" a pretty good representation of the X60/X60s models I find this topic of overheating a palmrests nothing more than what it is, a case by case basis. If anyone is unhappy or feels their machine is faulty, simply take advantage of either the return process or the warranty provided.

foodle · #25 Post by **foodle** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:10 am

snife wrote: archer6, i'm not aware of any fix being implemented and am wondering if it is maybe a batch issue - don't suppose you have the FRU numbers of the old wireless card from the hot machine and from the new one?

The tech support person I spoke to indicated that it was not a problem solely with the wireless card. When I sent my machine in they replaced the entire planar card (motherboard). Don't remember if they replaced the wireless card also. Again, I do not believe that a simple swap of the wireless card will fix the problem.

madana · #26 Post by **madana** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:46 am

My God! 61 C!

Being in India where it hits 45-48 C at times, I dread the palmrest will turn into a frying pan. And the local IBM service center will probably refuse to fix it, saying it is an extra add-on feature for Indian users to be able to prepare national flat breads "chapatis" right on the desk.

#27 Post by **archer6** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:53 am

foodle wrote:
snife wrote: archer6, i'm not aware of any fix being implemented and am wondering if it is maybe a batch issue - don't suppose you have the FRU numbers of the old wireless card from the hot machine and from the new one?
The tech support person I spoke to indicated that it was not a problem solely with the wireless card. When I sent my machine in they replaced the entire planar card (motherboard). Don't remember if they replaced the wireless card also. Again, I do not believe that a simple swap of the wireless card will fix the problem.

I reported (many posts ago) that we did receive (one) early production X60 with a true temp issue and in this case when sent in for repair it was the card (atheros) that was faulty. So, in my experience it seems to be on a case by case basis.

david25 · #28 Post by **david25** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:42 pm

Hi everyone, I've used two x60 machines;

1. x60 1.86ghz duo intel wifi and bluetooth, palm rest was 48'c

2. x60 1.66ghz solo intel wifi only, still to install TPF, but the palm rest feels much cooler.

The overall machine is also much cooler, the fan only comes for periods of a time, compared to all the time with the 1.86ghz model.

Would like to try a Low voltage version and compare.

dannyp · #29 Post by **dannyp** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:33 pm

I have one also, details in sig. Anyway the heat on the right palm isn't unberable. My Avertec is hotter.

To the aforementioned problem about the X60(not 's') having fan issues, my X60s has a near-inaudible fan I really can't tell if it's even on except that warm air is blown out. I don't hear the disk either.

I'm going to post my temp results too. I think it would be significant if there was a thread showing results of an X60s with specified wireless, and also room temperature status.

example: X60s, APS 48'C, Atheros, Room: 30'C

CyberDude · #30 Post by **CyberDude** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:45 am

My two X60s' have an APS temp of 43C, room temp 28C. They have the Intel Wifi.

Also, my fan and HDD are completely silent.

Warmpalm rests on x60 and x60s - what is the concensus?

Warmpalm rests on x60 and x60s - what is the concensus?

how do you check temp?

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