Thinkpads Forum

Hi there,

this is my first post but this forum was one of the best i could find on the internet regarding thinkpads (only). I therefore don't know whether this is the right place to ask the following questions... I am trying to decide whether to buy a top-end SonySZ series laptop or an IBM X60s.

I currently own a T42 and use that primarily at home, docked. Since it's a 15" it's become quite a nuisance carrying it around from home to the lab, back to the office and travelling.

I need computer for some basic video work in the lab plus mathcad etc and for word, excel. i also like to watch a movie from time to time.

Both laptops have cons and pros to one another, but my biggest issue is screen. I haven't had a chance to compare one to another side by side as there is no store here to have both brands...

I would be very happy to hear you comments regarding these two computers. Once again, i hope it wasn't offensive to post a 2nd brand next to thinkpad in comparison.

Thanks.

I am not saying X60 will be better. The SZ I played with in US, however, has the worst laptop keyboard I have ever seen.

That is what i have read about too. IBM's have best keyboards, that's partly why, once used to thinkpads, all other keyboards seem "bad". There are however many other advantages over the X which i am concerned about and since many of you here actually use X60s laptops, i would like to hear as many thougth in that respect as possible.

I also read all the "official" reviews i could find about both Sony and IBM, but i never know when it's an independent review or a paid one... Strangely, on certain websites with reviews, the editor's review is sooo far (better, worse) from the reviews by actual users (and the latter don't have any reason to say anything that's not true about the laptop they use)...

Since it's big money $3K to pay for the more expensive one, i would truly like to hear more of your thoughts/comments/advice on X60s vs Vaio SZ (latest top end models).

Personal opinions ...

SZ:
+ dedicated and more powerful GPU
+ higher resolution screen. Widescreen good for movie.
+ built in dvd writer drive

X60s:
+ Trackpoint
+ 7+ hours battery life with 8-cell
+ Hover case design


Specifications (and editorial reviews in some cases) offer mostly numbers. They are useful but they don't represent the true picture.

Is it very hot to touch? Does it make loud and high frequency fan/HDD noise? Is it sturdy enough to withstand pressure from other things in your bag? What are the common known issues/design flaws? When there is a hardware issue how long will it take to get it fixed via warranty claim?

I would strongly encourage you to browse the sony user forums and the X60s forum. End users' comments are very good resources. They use the machine on a daily basis and can find out far more details than a 2 hour "professional review".

sugo wrote: Specifications (and editorial reviews in some cases) offer mostly numbers. They are useful but they don't represent the true picture.

Is it very hot to touch? Does it make loud and high frequency fan/HDD noise? Is it sturdy enough to withstand pressure from other things in your bag? What are the common known issues/design flaws? When there is a hardware issue how long will it take to get it fixed via warranty claim?
.

This is Very important information. The day to day issues are the ones that are going to make or break.

I've read a lot and mainly - in general - found good things about Sony Vaio and X60. Both of these have more or less the same MAIN downsides - being Customer Service. Other than that, they each have advantages over the other...

But where I live the warranty and customer service at least at the IBM hasn't changed since Lenovo took over. Other Sony products that I own also boast a superb customer service... and back I am. At the start. Still in the dark

I guess I'll have to decide whether to keep my T42 and go with another laptop like X - which is "more" ultra-portable than Vaio SZ, -or- should I go with the SZ with huge HDD and replace all the junk on my desk.

Since I already had luck with money-saving, i don't mind the price no more. It's now only what would serve me better. They say you don't know until you try, but if I try and get it wrong, i may not be able to afford another laptop for quite some time

Btw... I've done quite a bit of research on useful links for user-reviews, but only found a handful. Any suggestions on Vaio and other IBM user-reviews?

Cheers

As you can see from my sig, I have a X60s. Before I bought it, I looked hard at the alternatives (including the Sony SZ). The two main things that kept me from getting the Sony were: 1) Poor Sony robustness and service 2) Poor keyboard. The SZ looks really attractive on paper, but I just could not live with the keyboard, especially after using Thinkpads.

For reviews, I've been looking at http://www.notebookreview.com lately. They both have in-house submitted reviews and links to other review sites, so they are a good clearing-house for reviews.

I tried out several Vaio and, while it had a good overall design, there are still some things I found lacking that really shouldn't be if some more thought was put into it and it was designed to last past 2 years.

The keyboard and touchpad on it *really* had to be designed better to even come within the range of the Thinkpads' Keyboards and pointing devices. It felt sturdy, although I would have really liked if it was more amenable to field-maintenance; all the Vaios I tried were far inferior in this regard to the Thinkpads (which are some of most easily FRU-able laptops, IMNSHO).

Also, I think they are more than just slightly overpriced; which is a function more of Sony as they have a general habit of over-procing their products for no real reason (PS3, Vaio, etc). Robustness is another thing as I have seen Vaios fail far before any Thinkpads, especially the X Series. I have, next to me, an X40 Thinkpad and a Sony Vaio. I have no doubt that I would spring for the X40 before the Vaio.

Have you seen any 3 years old Sony Vaio on the market?
Because you can buy 3 years old used thinkpads like they are new ones...

Sony has a stupid lid closing mechanism. It seems very weak.
I never tried SZ, but I had VGN-TX2. It was a pain...
When I moved it while it was playing a DVD, the drive scratched the disc. Very thin plastic case, not a robust thinkpad. Slow processor,

SZ has a very thin display, it seems weak. Thinkpad has a well designed and robost lid cover. It protects the LCD well.

jamess wrote:Hi there,

this is my first post

I need computer for some basic video work in the lab plus mathcad etc and for word, excel. i also like to watch a movie from time to time.

Greetings and Welcome to the Forum!

I notice the word "work" in your statement above. To me this means that you need a computer that you can count on. A computer that will be a wise investment going forward. Based on my experience, which is quite extensive with both VAIO & ThinkPad notebooks, I can only suggest one and that is the ThinkPad.

I must admit that Sony styling and design have from time to time caused me to purchase various VAIO notebooks. After nearly 7 years of trying their products alongside my trusted and mission critical ThinkPads, they (Sony) pale in comparison.

Buy a ThinkPad and you are getting a notebook computer that is well built and extremely well supported. There is simply no contest whatsoever. Sony has no history to speak of in terms supporting the business community with drivers and all other related software and hardware support as provided by IBM/Lenovo. I too have a lot of Sony consumer electronics products and I'm a Sony supporter. However that said, they have a dismal support infastructure when it comes to computers. It goes far beyond the obvious first impression of keyboards, displays, case design etc.

As a consumer product where it's usage is not important to your day to day work, then nearly any laptop is ok. Sony VAIO's are an ok notebook for the casual user. So nothing against them, just responding to your question.

Take a good look at the many choices in the ThinkPad lineup and I'm sure you will find a computer for you and be very happy.

Cheers...

@archer6: thanks for warm welcome and superb advice. I've heard before people in the States were friendly, but it seems to me that you're very friendly

Yes, I do need a laptop to actually "work" on and it must be reliable - setting up experiments for days and then not capturing data - a bad thing.

As said - sony is nice and cool looking, but i'm not buying a laptop for others to notice, but rather for me to have a reliable work horse.

And one more question - since many of you have multiple laptops... which is faster: 1.66 duo core (x60s) or 1.7 centrino (T42).

Thanks a lot!

Core duo is faster.

Hmm, that's interesting. Because that means i could also do some basic graphic work on the small X60 (photoshop, illustrator) and would almost be able to "replace" my T42 for vast variety of tasks... One more thing though since you're are so kind helping me out...

1. is 100 GB / 7200 rpm HDD option much worse regarding battery/power consumption (does 7200 rpm VS 5400 rpm mean much less battery time). In other words - is it wise spending extra $ for 20gb more.

2. is 1 GB ram in X60s which uses ram for graphics same as 1 GB ram in T42?

Thanks again for your help!

jamess wrote:Hmm, that's interesting. Because that means i could also do some basic graphic work on the small X60 (photoshop, illustrator) and would almost be able to "replace" my T42 for vast variety of tasks... One more thing though since you're are so kind helping me out...

1. is 100 GB / 7200 rpm HDD option much worse regarding battery/power consumption (does 7200 rpm VS 5400 rpm mean much less battery time). In other words - is it wise spending extra $ for 20gb more.

2. is 1 GB ram in X60s which uses ram for graphics same as 1 GB ram in T42?

Thanks again for your help!

1.) The difference between a 7200RPM and a 5400RPM HDD when it comes to battery time is minimal at best; most likely, you will not notice. I have used both 7200RPM and 5400RPM HDDs in my T43 and other Thinkpads, and I have yet to see a difference in battery life, say over 3 minutes so as to be noticeable by the operator, that could be attributed to the HDD being 7200RPM rather than 5400RPM. If it comes down it it, though, I would get 20GB more space for the extra money rather than upping the speed and staying at the same capacity. That is, unless, you just have to have a faster response time from your HDD and are willing to pay more for it.

2.) No, if I recall correctly, the RAM is different. The X60 uses PC2-5300 memory (also known as DDR2-667 @ 667MHz) and the T42 uses PC2700 memory. Even my T43 has a different memory type, DDR2-533 (PC2-4200)...One of the things that has to be dealt with when upgrading systems.

HTH

jamess wrote:the small X60 would almost be able to "replace" my T42 for vast variety of tasks..

Yes, I would say that it would be quite possible to replace your T42 with the X60s. Regarding the hard drive, I have all the various hard drive sizes and speeds in my ThinkPad collection and I find the 5400rpm drive quite fast in actual usage, (especially as compared to 5400 drives in other laptops). Of course the 7200rpm is a bit faster, however the only time it is somewhat noticeable is bootup and program loading and you will notice that I said "somewhat". There certainly is justification for the 7200 if you absolutely need the extra speed due to the use of very resource intensive software. However I find even with photoshop and some of the cad work I do that the price/performance ratio is not that far superior to the 5400rpm. In addition the 5400 is a bit cooler running. I would spend that money on ram. I upgraded mine to 1.5GB and it pays off nicely, no downside at all. Based on your comments I think that perhaps 1.0GB would be perfect for you.

GOT IT! I am truly happy i opted for this little toy, took 1.5 GB in total and it's super-nice...

thank you all for your help. I hope everything will be fine with it... it will be so much fun working on it...

I do have a few questions (again)... mainly regarding battery usage. I have read many posts saying completely different about "proper" and optimal battery usage. Some say just use it as you wish, some say don't forget to empty it under 2% at least once per month, then again others claim it's best if you never fully discharge nor recharge etc.

I would like to ask you with years of experience with laptops and thinkpads, what's the best solution to preserve the battery to last a looong time.

cheers,
anze

PS: Anyone running Premiere Pro 1.5 on X60s and tried it/does it work ok?

following the recommendation of another forum user, i discharged my batteries to 2%, then recharged with the laptop powered on. the result- storage capacity went from 48 to 50 on the main battery, and from 19 to 21 on the ultrabay. I believe this is a once a month kind of thing, but since your computer is brand new..

look through the forums again for tips on battery usage, its all there.

being a consumable, its only going to last a certain amount of time to begin with. don't fully discharge it too often; li-ion batteries are better off charging whenever you can, not every day after draining them completely. if youre going to take them out for a while, store at around 40% charge. i think you'll read this stuff a lot when you search the forum.

delete

Jamess, welcome to the forum too...

Well, I recommend you without any doubt: go for the Thinkpad... ! And not because of this forum (the Thinkpad shrine) but because of the reality: I've a T42 too and had two Vaios... one of them burned the main plaque, because of a thermostat failure... I think the X60 is the most suitable solution for a travelling business person, it's light and robust made, powerfull in performance and has a battery life that few can surpass... the mobility ideal... I will buy one of those machines soon.

Sorry I didn't read your last post, so you finally got a TP!!! Congratulations, and sorry your soccer team didn't make it in the WCup, another time it will be!

rleo25 wrote:Sorry I didn't read your last post, so you finally got a TP!!! Congratulations, and sorry your soccer team didn't make it in the WCup, another time it will be!

Hehe, not being real soccer fan, so i don't really mind But thanks anyways.