Very Hot AC Adapter

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inguo · #1 Post by **inguo** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:01 am

I've owned thinkpads (never owned another laptop brand) approx. 10yrs running and having an issue with a hot AC adapter pn/92P1155. When charging my x60s 1704-3DU the AC adapter becomes so hot that I can't hold it for more than a few seconds. As battery charge reaches around 96% cube begins to cool to slightly warm. Had the adapter replaced under warranty but the replacement part becomes just as hot as the adapter that shipped with the thinkpad. Interested to learn if other x60s owners are experiencing the same issue. 8 cell battery runs cool and no hint of
the heat issues others report under the right palm rest. Battery life in the 8-10hr range. BIOS 1.11. Wondering if a hot cube is the norm. Thanks.

SkiBunny · #2 Post by **SkiBunny** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:29 pm

my ac adapter is cool as a cucumber, same part number only diff is it's x60 running bios 1.10
And i only get about 5-6 hours on battery, since updating the bios from 1.04 when battery used to last 8 hrs

SkiBunny · #3 Post by **SkiBunny** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:31 pm

oh i forgot there was a thinkpad ac adapter caught fire.

there is an ac adapter recall.

tbfox · #4 Post by **tbfox** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:18 pm

My AC brick gets extraordinarily hot, as in too hot to touch. If I leave the computer plugged in and the battery charged, it's fine. But when I run the battery down to less than 50%, it gets very hot while charging. I checked the recall and that's for AC bricks from 1999 to 2000. I double check the part number just in case, and mine is not recalled. I keep an eye on it, though, to make sure it doesn't catch on fire/melt, and I always leave it on a coaster or something like that and not directly on the carpet.

Traci

SkiBunny · #5 Post by **SkiBunny** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:29 pm

which ac adapter, the 90 watt or the 65 watt ?

inguo · #6 Post by **inguo** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:23 pm

It's PN/92P1155 Description: ADPTR 65W -- Lenovo should look into this. 2 out of 2 cubes are too hot to the touch. I make sure when I'm charging that I don't have anything capable of igniting nearby...my previous thinkpad cubes barely got warm.

tbfox · #7 Post by **tbfox** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:23 pm

Skibunny,

65W adapter, 8 cell battery.
Should I have gotten the 90 watt?

SkiBunny · #8 Post by **SkiBunny** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:37 pm

either adapter works with the x-series

i have both and guess what, my 65 watt is warm too! It's the 90w that is cooler.

The 90w has the added advatnatge of working with the T and Z series, also the ac/dc charger.

but the 65w is considerably smaller & lighter.

ozmann · #9 Post by **ozmann** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:56 pm

So that's a hot adapter and computer (palm rest with Atheros card). Perhaps Lenovo went too far in the push to small size, or down the wrong paths...

christopher_wolf · #10 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:06 pm

ozmann wrote:So that's a hot adapter and computer (palm rest with Atheros card). Perhaps Lenovo went too far in the push to small size, or down the wrong paths...

Or perhaps, just maybe, some users are more sensitive to heat and can't hold a significantly warm brick for 5 minutes; this is obviously an important feature of a power brick, else the boot process might be disturbed. I don't know, I am just brainstorming things here, thinking out loud, running it up a flagpoll and see who doesn't salute, etc...

The X60 that I tried out for a few days only got a tad warm on the palmrest and the charger got no hotter, both before and after charging, than my T43's power adapter.

It could very well be that there are power adapaters for the X60 Series Thinkpads that are hotter than others when operating as I know that is the case for almost all the other Thinkpad models.

#11 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:26 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:The X60 that I tried out for a few days only got a tad warm on the palmrest and the charger got no hotter, both before and after charging, than my T43's power adapter.

It could very well be that there are power adapaters for the X60 Series Thinkpads that are hotter than others when operating as I know that is the case for almost all the other Thinkpad models.

There is the ThinkPad 65W Ultraportable AC adapter, the ThinkPad 90 Watt AC adapter, and the ThinkPad 90 Watt AC/DC combo adapter, that are listed as AC adapters for use with the X60. So yes indeed, there are different adapters that no doubt exhibit different thermal characteristics. Additionally, there are at least 3 different batteries, each with their own unique charging characteristics. Not to mention the actual charge the battery has when the recharging begins, or if the X60 was being used simultaneously, possibly heavily engaged in WOW. So one man's experience could in all likelyhood be somewhat different than anothers.

AC adapter & battery accessories - ThinkPad X60/s

christopher_wolf · #12 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:02 am

GomJabbar wrote:So one man's experience could in all likelyhood be somewhat different than anothers.

Obviously; but I tend to be skeptical, as any critically-thinking individual should, of various reports of problems and issues that very quickly get off onto "Why do they make all of them all *so* hot?" as hurried generalization tends to be the most common downfall of even the most mundane of issues. To note;

There is no current AC Adapter recall, SkiBunny; the last one IBM had was with the older Delta power adapters due to heat issues. This was quite some time ago and is unlikely to affect X60 power adapters.

2 out of 2 cubes by one tester is not conclusive evidence of heat issues in the slightest. My friend had both the 90W AC and the 90W AC/DC Combo adapters and they didn't seem to get unreasonably hot. They did get harder during operational use of the Thinkpad and simultaneous charging of the battery due to higher consumption. At no time did I feel it to get any hotter than my T43's power adapter in similar operation.

Finally, how does this relate to the size of the X60/s?

ozmann · #13 Post by **ozmann** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:22 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:Finally, how does this relate to the size of the X60/s?

Just my speculations

. The X60s is my 5th Thinkpad model. I'm a loyal user and I'm not looking to get into a fight with you...

The smaller size of the X60s (along with the changes/decreases in front vents compared with the X4x series) may have made it more difficult to transfer heat out the fan exhaust. Certainly, the temp of my palm rest is significantly greater than the air temperature of the fan exhaust.

The power bricks are cooled by convection and some conduction: both are proportional to surface area. The new brick is smaller and higher wattage (65 vs 56 W) compared to the X41. Thus, it is not surprising that it runs hotter. The efficiency of the switching circuit also is an issue. Still I agree that the 3 units tried by 2 users may be defective, just as it is possible that the forum members noting very hot palm rests may have defective or out-of-spec computers, as suggested by Archer. However, if this is the case, I'm worried about quality control. Do you recall similar issues with earlier, IBM-only models?

atb12688 · #14 Post by **atb12688** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:57 pm

My ac adapter stays ice cold (room temp) all the time. You should definitely send it in again and get a functioning one. I have no trouble holding it for long periods of time while its working. This ac adapter is simply awesome: its very small, very light, and lets off very little heat. I've never seen an ac adapter like this before. The huge ac adapter with my dell i9300 would always get very hot, too hot to hold almost which was considered normal. Just goes to show that there is a huge difference between dell and lenovo/ibm.

inguo · #15 Post by **inguo** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:07 pm

None of my bygone thinkpad bricks were hot (barely warm) to the touch although none were as small as the x60's adapter. As mentioned, the right palm rest gets warm but not hot or uncomfortable when charging and runs perfectly cool on battery alone. One should avoid the namby pamby pansy references on heat sensitivity because too hot and uncomfortable means simply that. Before purchasing an x60s I dropped by an Apple store and test drove a MacBook...hot? Battery issues? Recalls? You bet.

christopher_wolf · #16 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:28 pm

inguo wrote:None of my bygone thinkpad bricks were hot (barely warm) to the touch although none were as small as the x60's adapter. As mentioned, the right palm rest gets warm but not hot or uncomfortable when charging and runs perfectly cool on battery alone. One should avoid the namby pamby pansy references on heat sensitivity because too hot and uncomfortable means simply that. Before purchasing an x60s I dropped by an Apple store and test drove a MacBook...hot? Battery issues? Recalls? You bet.

Heat sensitivity, if one cares to think, is not "nambly pambly."

Using the opinions of a person as a *quantitative* reference as to how hot something may be, with a small sample size, is inaccurate at best; non-valid logic, overall. Just because it gets hot, and the MacBooks got hot and had battery issues including a recall, doesn't mean any power adapter that gets hot has problems. An example of that logic in use would be "I saw a bunch of chickens, they had two legs, the creature I am looking at now has two legs; therefore this creature must be a chicken." Again, that isn't quite valid.

Power adapters for Thinkpads, or for any laptop, get hot as a matter of principle depending on how much you load them. Ever since the heat problems with the older Delta power adapters, IBM has been looking more and more at their power adapters and have implemented more internal testing for them to prevent such problems. If it is doing its job in providing the correct power to the Thinkpad, doesn't get way too hot, doesn't singe plastic, and doesn't light the drapes on fire, then the chances are pretty high that it is within the acceptable range for a power adapter. That sounds like it is careless, but that is what its function and goal is.

That said, I *have* seen power adapters that literally singe the plastic off of them and were most likely a threat if used in a home environ. The power bricks for my Dell M60, Compaq, and HP ze5170 were very good examples of a "Bonfire in a Box" power adapter product. Holding them for *any* length of time would have been uncomfortable in the very least and might have resulted in a burn if held for extended periods of time.

smvp6459 · #17 Post by **smvp6459** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:05 pm

I've been running my X60s off the AC for about 11 hours today and it's almost cool to the touch. Then again I've mostly been doing word processing and the battery was fully charged to begin with.

tbfox · #18 Post by **tbfox** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:11 pm

My AC brick is cool as long as the battery is already charged, and the battery itself is always cool to the touch. BUT, when I am charging the X60s from a low battery to full charge, the AC brick does get hot. I set an indoor/outdoor thermometer on it today and it was just over 100°F. Once the battery is fully charged, though, the temperature is cool.

inguo · #19 Post by **inguo** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:11 pm

smvp6459

Exactly what I experience. The adapter runs cool when the battery is fully charged but when charging the battery and the x60s is in use the brick becomes too hot to the touch -- even with simple word processing.

christopher_wolf · #20 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:19 pm

That is as it should be; the bricks will get hotter during use if they have to charge the battery at the same time because a larger load is being put on them.

inguo · #21 Post by **inguo** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:20 pm

Chris

God bless. The mere mention of a hot adapter and I get a live wire looking to douse an imagined fire.

"Or perhaps, just maybe, some users are more sensitive to heat and can't hold a significantly warm brick for 5 minutes."

Your namby-pamby reference.

"I saw a bunch of chickens, they had two legs, the creature I am looking at now has two legs; therefore this creature must be a chicken."

Pure double-speak at best.

"If it is doing its job in providing the correct power to the Thinkpad, doesn't get way too hot, doesn't singe plastic, and doesn't light the drapes on fire, then the chances are pretty high that it is within the acceptable range for a power adapter."

Not according to Apple and Dell when they held Sony's feet to the fire.

"non-valid logic" "critically-thinking individual"

I've read some of your posts. Too much Star Trek, Bud? 4K posts. Really? Too much time on your hands? You grate on people like a troll.

"Why do they make all of them all *so* hot?" as hurried generalization"

Lenovo spin doctoring? Your argument from extremes and blatantly fallacious. No one else's.

I was interested in hearing from other x60s owners and since you are not one of them this post did not apply to you. If X=x60s owners and Y=T43 owners and hot brick x60s owner's=Z then Y is NULL -- that would be you and your opinon since you have no direct relation to the subject matter. Next time sign in as someone else with x60s in your tag.

This thread is directed to x60s owners with the above PN/W. Thank you kindly.

#22 Post by **BillMorrow** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:45 am

gentlemen, please..

please, tone it down a bit..

i rather imagine that this heat issue is getting people a bit hot under the collar..

for me on my X60s the AC adapter runs cool..
so far..
so i will NOT let it see this thread..

NS · #23 Post by NS » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:03 am

christopher_wolf wrote:Or perhaps, just maybe, some users are more sensitive to heat and can't hold a significantly warm brick for 5 minutes; this is obviously an important feature of a power brick, else the boot process might be disturbed.

User Edit X1: Ok, i second Chris's opinion. Yes, i have tried this experiment. And i am the user who cannot hold the hot brick for even 3 minutes.

inguo wrote:Chris

God bless. The mere mention of a hot adapter and I get a live wire looking to douse an imagined fire.

I guess this is a misunderstanding between the 2 of you.

@inguo,
Chris is trying to voice out his opinion that some people like me myself who cannot hold a warm brick for 5 minutes. Guess my skin is too thin...

If you find that your brick is too hot and it looked like it is going to catch fire, then something is wrong with it.

Cool down, relax and don't hyper-ventilate

~~~Cheers~~~

inguo · #24 Post by **inguo** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:28 am

NS

Characterizing yourself as "chicken" has likely brought shame to your fellow Singaporeans. You should choose your words a little more carefully next time in these culturally charged times.

It was unfortunate to read news about a possible ban on Thinkpad use with the air carriers. A too hot to handle adapter might give them cause to confirm their inclination.

The purpose of a recall is to avoid a hazard of any proportion. And no doubt the reason for Lenovo's current battery recall.

Thanks for confirming that your adapter is too hot for you to handle regardless of your thin skin. Perhaps word will reach the proper ears and the issue will be resolved before the "drapes" catch fire.

Prost!

#25 Post by **archer6** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:51 pm

ozmann wrote:The power bricks are cooled by convection and some conduction: both are proportional to surface area. The new brick is smaller and higher wattage (65 vs 56 W) compared to the X41. Thus, it is not surprising that it runs hotter.

Your explanation here is quite accurate. The 65W adapter that came with my X60s does indeed run warmer than the larger 90W units that came with my T60, T60p & Z60m models.

Within my company we currently have approx 55, X60s models deployed. To date we have not had one power supply that is "Hot".

That said, I would caution anyone who has a unit that is "HOT" to arrange for a warranty replacement. It's easy, fast and the reason that there is a warranty department. With the vast number of ThinkPads being sold, there are bound to be some defective components from the various vendors.

ozmann wrote:Still I agree that the 3 units tried by 2 users may be defective, just as it is possible that the forum members noting very hot palm rests may have defective or out-of-spec computers, as suggested by Archer. However, if this is the case, I'm worried about quality control. Do you recall similar issues with earlier, IBM-only models?

After a decade of ThinkPad usage both personally and with my company (I dare say over 1,000 deployed in that time frame) I am not the least bit concerned with quality control. It's important for us to remember that this is a mass produced product, and as such there is bound to be a certain failure rate.

The important thing to remember here is the ease of obtaining a warranty replacement part, or warranty service if the computer itself must be sent in for repair. We have always enjoyed exemplary service and support from IBM/Lenovo. While it's not always been perfect, what company is? The majority of the time, service and warranty support has been quite outstanding. Especially if one compares it to the competition, and believe me I have.

So, sit back and enjoy your ThinkPads (and no I don't work for them...

)

NS · #26 Post by NS » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:28 am

inguo wrote:It was unfortunate to read news about a possible ban on Thinkpad use with the air carriers. A too hot to handle adapter might give them cause to confirm their inclination.

What??? No way... How can they ban all thinkpads on air carriers

? Not all thinkpads will overheat. Where is the news?

BTW: I have edited my previous post. Thanks for the reminder. Sorry...

MobileGuru · #27 Post by **MobileGuru** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:50 pm

Pretty soon .. the sheer amount of garbage floating around regarding hot adapters, explosive batteries and all the other drivel will likely result in an airline ban on hot undergarments for fear of a chafe-created fire!

MG.

ozmann · #28 Post by **ozmann** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:51 pm

Remember, folks, that AC adapters only become warm when plugged into AC; a power source not particularly available on airplanes! While some may be able to use their adapters as drink warmers at home, it's a moot issue when travelling.

inguo · #29 Post by **inguo** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:45 pm

Once again your cooperation is appreciated -- this thread is directed to x60s owners with the above PN/W. Pls park any IBM/Lenovo spin doctoring here;

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=13

and uncloak your relationship with the abovementioned. Your kill the messenger posturing is enough to chafe a loyal customer away from this brand.

Adapters that are too hot to handle and exploding batteries are not cause for inane humor. How amusing would it have been if that ThinkPad exploded mid-flight? And yes, airlines do offer seats with outlets.

#30 Post by **JaneL** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:55 pm

inguo wrote:Once again your cooperation is appreciated -- this thread is directed to x60s owners with the above PN/W. Pls park any IBM/Lenovo spin doctoring here;

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=13

and uncloak your relationship with the abovementioned. Your kill the messenger posturing is enough to chafe a loyal customer away from this brand.

What are you talking about? This is not the first time in this thread that you've alluded to an IBM/Lenovo influence. Make sure it's your last. Personal attacks are expressly forbidden in the Rules of the Road. Read them.

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