HD, Wifi, keyboard, and all the good stuff

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caius · #1 Post by **caius** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:45 pm

While on a month-long trip through as much of China as my bank account can allow this past summer, i blew most of what i had left on a x60s in Hong Kong ($2000 CAD [thanks to a good friend of mine for the lenient exchange rate} for my 1GB RAM, 80GB 5400rmp HD, 8-cell battery, xp home, intel Wifi, extended warrenty x60s 1702 7AH)

Since then, i've been caught up with my new life as a graduate student, and hadn't had the time to it the time it deserves. Though the truth is, i am no where near as good in tinkering with computer hardware and software as most of the members of this forum.

So this is a plead for help, for any of you who can slap some sense into me regarding a few dreams i have for my x60s

1: Change hard drive to 100GB or more capacity and use the old HD as an external (i've some idea of how to do this, but would really appreciate if someone can tell me details as mundane as what connecting cables i'd have to use)

2: Upgrade to Atheros Wireless Card (or would this be a downgrade? i'm now more confused after reading the multiples of threads on this issue)

3: Custom way of dealing with the heat problem (would i even be able to send it for repairs if the highest temp reading i got was 50C for both CPU and APS? or is slapping on some AS5 too crazy a job for a novice?)

4: Minimal start-up processes (good idea to get rid of ibm partition and not use RnR? if so how?)

5: Best way to partition? (i've got system on one, installed programs on the other, and data/images/working files on the third {plus the ibm hidden}, is that a good idea?)

Thanks, if you have read all of my ramblings. I'd owe you a beer if you can help me out.

-c

#2 Post by **tomh009** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:41 pm

caius wrote: 1: Change hard drive to 100GB or more capacity and use the old HD as an external (i've some idea of how to do this, but would really appreciate if someone can tell me details as mundane as what connecting cables i'd have to use)

2: Upgrade to Atheros Wireless Card (or would this be a downgrade? i'm now more confused after reading the multiples of threads on this issue)

3: Custom way of dealing with the heat problem (would i even be able to send it for repairs if the highest temp reading i got was 50C for both CPU and APS? or is slapping on some AS5 too crazy a job for a novice?)

4: Minimal start-up processes (good idea to get rid of ibm partition and not use RnR? if so how?)

5: Best way to partition? (i've got system on one, installed programs on the other, and data/images/working files on the third {plus the ibm hidden}, is that a good idea?)

1. You can simply buy a new drive (my preference is for the Hitachi 7200 rpm models -- fast and quiet!) and install the old drive in an external USB housing. If you can hold a scredriver, you can surely do this in 30 minutes. And then either reinstall on the new drive or do a Ghost onto it.

2. Indeed many opinions. But a swap is easily done in 10-15 minutes -- you simply need to remove the keyboard to get access to the card, should you choose to do this swap.

3. To reduce the heat, run NHC and lower the CPU voltages. Search for NHC on these forums and you will find some good starting points for those voltages.

4. (No opinion here ... I still have my IBM partition.)

5. After many (!) years of different partition strategies I have eventually decided that a single partition works best for me. There is little to gain from multiple ones, and it's very difficult to predict how much disk space you need in each partition a year or three from now.

agarza · #3 Post by **agarza** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:53 pm

50C is a pretty normal temp, you should be able to lower it undervolting the CPU.

For me, partitioning the main HDD depends on various factors.
1. If you keep a lot of info, is better to partition the drive in 2 partitions. Go 50-50. This way the C drive which holds Windows should be less fragmented than the other partition in which you'll keep your documents
2. Use the old HDD as a secondary backup

My setup right now is using the hitachi stock HDD using 100% in one partition. Plugged in a USB connector, there's a E7K100 HDD for all the stuff I need. Of course this is troublesome if you tend to move the laptop which you, in this case, is better to get the Ultrabay Slim 2nd HDD adapter.

caius · #4 Post by **caius** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:17 pm

I'm definately going for the Hitachi 7200rmp drive (TravelStar 100 GB 7K100) as it's consistant with the reviews i've seen in this forum.

Thanks for the tips on partitioning. The reason i thought 3 would work is so that i only have to reformat/reinstall/rollback the partition used for windows should it fail, and would not have to reinstall most of the programs. But i guess that would not be feasible since most installed programs will have files integrated in the windows/systems partition.

The reason i wanted to remove the ibm partition is because i want the laptop to startup with a minimal amount of processes. That and i didn't think i'd need the rescue and recovery (nor many of the ThinkVantage tools) once i have a backup external HD). Correct me if i'm wrong

#5 Post by **tomh009** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:28 pm

benottomex wrote:My setup right now is using the hitachi stock HDD using 100% in one partition. Plugged in a USB connector, there's a E7K100 HDD for all the stuff I need. Of course this is troublesome if you tend to move the laptop which you, in this case, is better to get the Ultrabay Slim 2nd HDD adapter.

Are you able to power the E7K100 off the USB, or do you use an external power supply? I found that my X31 did not supply enough juice on USB to run an external 7K60, so that one needs an external power supply.

#6 Post by **tomh009** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:30 pm

caius wrote:The reason i wanted to remove the ibm partition is because i want the laptop to startup with a minimal amount of processes. That and i didn't think i'd need the rescue and recovery (nor many of the ThinkVantage tools) once i have a backup external HD). Correct me if i'm wrong

The IBM partition won't start any extra processes, it just costs some disk space. With the space of the 7K100, I decided that the hassle of removing the IBM partition wasn't worth it for me.

lev · #7 Post by **lev** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:14 pm

caius wrote: 1: Change hard drive to 100GB or more capacity and use the old HD as an external (i've some idea of how to do this, but would really appreciate if someone can tell me details as mundane as what connecting cables i'd have to use)

As has been said, upgrading the drive is simple, and you just need external usb chasis for the old drive

2: Upgrade to Atheros Wireless Card (or would this be a downgrade? i'm now more confused after reading the multiples of threads on this issue)

I've had no problems with the intel. Some people have. Some people have no problems with the atheros. Some people have. Few people have tried both. There is a known issue where intel cards are incompatbile with using the power saving mode with certain access points. Intel claims this is a problem with the access point not following the wifi standard. From my reading of the standard this is true, but it doesn't necessarily make you feel any happier that it's the AP's fault when you can't connect. (The problem, as far as I can tell, is that the AP doesn't properly forward broadcast packets to you when you're in the power save mode -- this is especially a problem with DHCP because broadcast packets are used for common DHCP configurations).

The very latest version of the intel drivers on the lenovo website, claims to fix a problem that sounds suspiciously like this one, though they don't give enough details to know for sure, and I haven't heard success/failure reports from the people complaining about this problem with their intel cards. As I said, I've had no problems with the intel card.

All that said, if you still want to switch cards, it's a very simple process and should take no more than 10 minutes.

3: Custom way of dealing with the heat problem (would i even be able to send it for repairs if the highest temp reading i got was 50C for both CPU and APS? or is slapping on some AS5 too crazy a job for a novice?)

If by "heat problem" you mean the warm right palmrest issue, then slapping AS5 under the CPU heatsink will not help and might actually make things worse. (The AS5 will help keep the CPU cool, which will mean the fan runs less, which will mean less air gets pulled over the wireless card, which means the palmrest might be warmer).

The best thing you can do to keep the palmrest cool, as far as I can tell, is to set the card to use maximum power saving (the default setting switches power-saving on when on battery, and no power saving when on AC, which is why the palmrest is warmer on AC). However, see above for the potential incompatibility with certain configurations of DHCP with certain firmware versions of certain access points.

People have reported that setting the power level for the wireless card to lower than maximum also helps. This of course might reduce the range you can acheive.

Access Connections lets you automate the setting of transmit power and power savings, so for example if at home you know that you're always close to the AP and the power save mode is compatible and you have WPA2 encyption, then it sets the appropriate settings, if the AP at starbucks is further away so you need full power transmission, and the AP is incompatible with power save mode, then Access Connections can make those settings. I think Access Connections is the most useful of the ThinkVantage tools, the only one I use regularly.

4: Minimal start-up processes (good idea to get rid of ibm partition and not use RnR? if so how?)

Personally, I removed:
Easy Eject
Away Manager (incompatible with Norton AV)
Productivity Center
FullScreen Magnifier
Keyboard Customizer
System Update
System Migration
Trackpoint Accessibilty
Client Security

And I kept the latest versions of the rest. I don't use rescue & recovery, but I haven't removed it yet either.

5: Best way to partition? (i've got system on one, installed programs on the other, and data/images/working files on the third {plus the ibm hidden}, is that a good idea?)

No comment on this.

Thanks, if you have read all of my ramblings. I'd owe you a beer if you can help me out.

Mine's a Unibroue.

caius · #8 Post by **caius** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:16 pm

Access Connections lets you automate the setting of transmit power and power savings, so for example if at home you know that you're always close to the AP and the power save mode is compatible and you have WPA2 encyption, then it sets the appropriate settings, if the AP at starbucks is further away so you need full power transmission, and the AP is incompatible with power save mode, then Access Connections can make those settings. I think Access Connections is the most useful of the ThinkVantage tools, the only one I use regularly

I haven't gotten familiar with Access Connections. Thanks for the tip, and i'll definately give it a go. As with the Atheros card i will 9 out of 10 switch since it doesn't dig too deep into my pockets and sounds like it's the least tech-savy way to solve the wifi + a bit of the heat problem.

As for the heat problem... i don't want to start another thread on this since there is a hell of a lot of talk on the issue already. I think the best way for me to handle it is to get the HD and Atheros card set up, then see if Lenovo can take care of it under the warrenty over the winter break. Some seem to have been able to solve the heat issue this way and Lenovo seems to be very reasonable when it comes to repairs (Correct me if i'm wrong!). The heat's getting worse though (tops at 59C for the CPU) and really uncomfortable. So as soon as i can do without the laptop i will look into it.

And I kept the latest versions of the rest. I don't use rescue & recovery, but I haven't removed it yet either.

Thanks again for the tip. Will taking away the Trackpoint Accessibilty tool affect the use of the dot?

Mine's a Unibroue

Canadian brew eh,

lev · #9 Post by **lev** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:59 pm

caius wrote: I haven't gotten familiar with Access Connections. Thanks for the tip, and i'll definately give it a go. As with the Atheros card i will 9 out of 10 switch since it doesn't dig too deep into my pockets and sounds like it's the least tech-savy way to solve the wifi + a bit of the heat problem.

<cynic>Or perhaps, just a way to exchange one set of problems for a different set of problems</cynic>

Have you already tried setting power-save mode to maximum, on the intel card?

As for the heat problem... i don't want to start another thread on this since there is a hell of a lot of talk on the issue already. I think the best way for me to handle it is to get the HD and Atheros card set up, then see if Lenovo can take care of it under the warrenty over the winter break. Some seem to have been able to solve the heat issue this way and Lenovo seems to be very reasonable when it comes to repairs (Correct me if i'm wrong!). The heat's getting worse though (tops at 59C for the CPU) and really uncomfortable. So as soon as i can do without the laptop i will look into it.

And I kept the latest versions of the rest. I don't use rescue & recovery, but I haven't removed it yet either.
Thanks again for the tip. Will taking away the Trackpoint Accessibilty tool affect the use of the dot?

Not unless you use the accessibility features (forget what they are, but stuff like button lock, and a big-[censored] crosspoint to make it easier to locate the cursor.

The regular (non-acesssibility) trackpoint driver is still necessary to allow changing the trackpoint sensitivity, using the middle-button scroll feature, etc (without it you can still use the trackpoint, but without those features).

Mine's a Unibroue
Canadian brew eh,

It's good stuff. And I figured I had a more realistic chance of getting that out of you than, say, something from Dent Brewery...
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/pipex ... /dent.html

caius · #10 Post by **caius** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:20 pm

Have you already tried setting power-save mode to maximum, on the intel card?

no, since both at the basement lab in school and at home in the basement i have a poor enough connection as it is. That's also the other reason i'm looking into the Atheros card, since it gets a stronger signal than the intel (again pls point out my ignorance)

Not unless you use the accessibility features (forget what they are, but stuff like button lock, and a big-[censored] crosspoint to make it easier to locate the cursor.

Looks like i've been deleting the wrong ThinkVantage utilities...

It's good stuff. And I figured I had a more realistic chance of getting that out of you than, say, something from Dent Brewery...

Haha, if you ever happen by Sudbury or Toronto let me know. Cremore Springs and the SteamWhistle are both pretty good Ontarian brews

dfumento · #11 Post by **dfumento** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:41 pm

I'd just save your money and leave it alone. The intel card may have a lower signal value in terms of number of bars but may actually be the same performance. I had an Atheros and Intel running side by side on two different laptops and the Atheros had more bars of signal showing, but the performance was exactly the same for me.

Don't worry about the other things, unless you have less than 15% or so disk space free. You need that amount to do reasonable disk defrag which you should be doing frequently.

Also, be certain you have enough RAM -- at least 1 to 1.5 GB total.

lev · #12 Post by **lev** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:28 am

caius wrote:
Have you already tried setting power-save mode to maximum, on the intel card?
no, since both at the basement lab in school and at home in the basement i have a poor enough connection as it is.

Power-save mode should not make any impact here. (As opposed to altering the transmission power of the card, which would make a difference if the connection were marginal).

Here are the advantages of power-save mode:

Right palmrest is significantly cooler
Power usage is about 2W lower (increasing duration running on battery power by maybe 25%) (those numbers off top of my head -- I don't have my notes with me here)

Here are the disadvantages:

Power reduction is less significant, if the link is in constant use (streaming video, bittorrent, etc)
Problems receiving ethernet broadcast packets when connecting with certain faulty access point firmwire revs, most common symptom being inability to renew DHCP leases for certain DHCP configurations (manifested as the connection gets dropped every 20 mins or so).
Very slightly increased packet latency. ~100ms. Maybe bothers you if you're playing quake or similar.

It costs you nothing to give it a try....

Anyway, with the out-of-the-box defaults, your X60s will be using power-save mode when it is running on battery, and not using it when running on AC. So, if the wireless networking functions for you when you're on battery, then I hypothesize you'll have no problems. (Especially if you upgrade to the latest lenovo drivers for your intel wireless card).

(As a general rule, keeping all of your drivers up-to-date with the latest versions from the "downloads and drivers" page at lenovo, is a good idea (some updates don't seem to make it onto system-update or software-installer, so I just install direct from the website). Keeping the BIOS up-to-date is more controversial, and some people recommend "if it aint broke....", but it's worth reading the release announcements for new BIOS versions, in case it has a feature you want/need).

Looks like i've been deleting the wrong ThinkVantage utilities...

This is where I feel compelled to plug process explorer from sysinternals.com, which is very good for seeing which things are good candidates for removal, since they are soaking up RAM, soaking up processor time when you thought the machine was idle (and thereby increasing power consumption and reducing battery life), etc. See posts in the "BIOS 1.11 no longer available?" thread on this forum.

I agree with dfumento that your 1Gb RAM might be on the low side, depending on how you use the machine. (For the stuff I do, even 2Gb is on the low side sometimes)

caius · #13 Post by **caius** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:35 am

- new driver for intel card
- test it out on power save mode with and without batteries
- check out process explorer
- consider more RAM (though i'm not running any graphic-intensive programs save for the occational photoshoping {parking passes} so i think i'm ok in that front with 1GB {512 x 2})

just curious, how many processes are running on your laptop at startup?

on a side note
i'm afraid trying out your suggestions will have to wait a few days, my school is screwing me (and the students and professors in our program) over and the legal pong game had just begun... the next week or so will be devoted to trying not to get too pessimistic about life and science and a career in academia in general by staying busy with projects and research, raising the money we need for legal purposes, and mouning the thining of my bank account by, well, staying thin...

thanks for your tips

kjjb0204 · #14 Post by **kjjb0204** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:41 pm

Instead of an external USB drive adapter for your spare hd, if you have the X6 ultrabase, 40Y8116, you can get the ultrabay slim hdd adapter, 40Y8725, put the drive in that, and slip into the ultrabase slot. No extra cables to plug in, and the x60s sits right on the dock and you can carry around as one single piece of hardware.

dfumento · #15 Post by **dfumento** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:08 pm

kjjb0204 wrote:Instead of an external USB drive adapter for your spare hd, if you have the X6 ultrabase, 40Y8116, you can get the ultrabay slim hdd adapter.....

I prefer the external USB drive adapter because when you travel you can easily take your backup with you.

There is a new Atheros card which also has the 802.11n in addition to a/b/g so you might consider buying that card if you are buying a replacement.

kjjb0204 · #16 Post by **kjjb0204** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:26 pm

dfumento - the point behind the dock and hdd adapter for the ultrabay is that it attaches to the x60 and barely adds a half pound and half inch, and looks like it's part of the original form factor. Also, no additional desk space required, it's all Lenovo product, and easy to remove from ultrabay slot and insert battery or optical drive.

caius · #17 Post by **caius** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:02 am

Aive me an idea how much an ultrabay for the x60s cost?
and it'd be greatly appreciated if you guys could give me advice as to where best to purchase a 100Gb travelstar (7200rmp).

Won't have enough dough to get buy things other than food for the next two weeks, but can't hurt to dream right?

turning it on max powersave mode after installing the intel card update helped with the temperature when i'm at home, though like you said, the connection would drop every now and then (quite an annoying thing really...). At school (therefore with the batteries) it works fine. Temperatur-wise though i'm still not satisfied. I'd still have to pull up my sleeve on my right hand as a buffer. Though you might dismiss it as over-reaction, my right hand is starting to hurt 5-10min after the temperature reaches around 50C. Lenovo, if i didn't misinterpret from the other threads i read here, is willing enough to try to fix this, so once i can spare the laptop i will bring it in.

any of you dual-booting? I'm looking into installing ubuntu and just looking for general suggestions.

kjjb0204 · #18 Post by **kjjb0204** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:20 am

I would just check CDW and pricegrabber for pricing. Just buy from a highly rated company. Use these part numbers:

40Y8116 - X6 Ultrabase Dock
40Y8725 - SATA Ultrabay HDD adapter
40Y8721 - 100GB SATA 5400rpm drive
41N3013 - 100GB SATA 7200rpm drive

If you're interested in extended run time, you can pop out the backup hd in the dock's ultrabay slot and pop in the Advanced Ultrabay Battery, allowing you to have two batteries for extended run time. Coupled with the 8-cell in the ThinkPad, you can truly get "all day computing."

40Y7003 - 8-cell X60 battery
40Y6789 - Advanced Ultrabay Battery

Have fun!

caius · #19 Post by **caius** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:11 am

Thanks!
the model numbers will come in handy, i'm always a little unsure if i have the right model down (i'm assuming the model #s you have down will work with the x60s and not just x60)

The extended battery i will hold off on. Lenovo shipped by 8-cell replacement. That and the old 8-cell will be more than enough to get me through the day

lev · #20 Post by **lev** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:30 am

caius wrote: turning it on max powersave mode after installing the intel card update helped with the temperature when i'm at home, though like you said, the connection would drop every now and then (quite an annoying thing really...).

Since this is allegedly a problem with the access point, maybe you can check for a firmware upgrade for your home AP. Also, since the main problem is with DHCP, you could always set it for a static IP address at home. This is all assuming that the root cause of your occasional dropped connection is the one described by intel (the symptoms would be that the system tray icon indicates a good signal, but your machine can't get an IP address so it gives the yellow warning symbol and the "this connection has limited or no connectivity" message.

At school (therefore with the batteries) it works fine. Temperatur-wise though i'm still not satisfied. I'd still have to pull up my sleeve on my right hand as a buffer. Though you might dismiss it as over-reaction, my right hand is starting to hurt 5-10min after the temperature reaches around 50C. Lenovo, if i didn't misinterpret from the other threads i read here, is willing enough to try to fix this, so once i can spare the laptop i will bring it in.

Out of curiosity, what BIOS version are you using?

How often does the fan on the laptop operate?

If you open task manager what is the CPU load at, when the system is idling?

When the system is on battery power, idling, how many watts does the power manager say it is using, on average?

What surface do you have your laptop on? If it's not a hard flat surface like a desk, then the ventilation may be worse, so it will run hotter.

If it's actually painful, then you should try to get it fixed, for sure. Trouble with the numbers is, that the "APS" temperature sensor reading is only loosely correlated with the temperature as felt on the palmrest. There definitely have been some cases of abnormally hot palmrests (as observed side-by-side compared with regular/somewhat warm ones) that were fixed under warranty. It surely wouldn't do any harm to phone them and ask.

To answer a question you asked a while ago, after bootup task manager shows 58 processes running for me.

caius · #21 Post by **caius** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:54 pm

BIOs - the one before the latest

fan - can't tell you how often it runs, though the fan's not necessary on when the palm rest is hot

CPU - 2-3% when idling, used by task manager, firefox, and msn, running under 50 processes

surface - ya, it's a wooden desk, which is unlikely to change though, especially since the x60s' speakers are at the bottom and need a good hard surface to bounce the sound

ip - i'll try the static ip, though i'm not clear as to if it'd work. i'm on wireless at home where the girls upstairs use internet phone, and the connect's set up to pass from the modem to the phone modem to the wireless router. i've tried a static ip before though got nothing (then again i'm not too tech-savy so...)

HD, Wifi, keyboard, and all the good stuff

HD, Wifi, keyboard, and all the good stuff

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HD partitioning and RnR

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