Need help with x61s decision...

[evil_attorney]

I have a tough decision to make and I know I am going to get a biased answer here, but I thought I would ask anyway. I have an x61s on order for about $1,070. However, today I was able to order a Dell XPS m1210 for about $860. I've listed the specs of both below.

The question is, should I stick with the x61s? I'm a little leary about the trackpoint, but really like the battery life, weight and size of it. The Dell is much cheaper, has an discrete GPU and a DVD drive but is thicker and weighs more. I won't be playing games or watching movies, mostly surfing the web and typing stuff. I will use it mostly for bringing to meetings, traveling, etc.

I appreciate any help you can give me with this decision.

XPS M1210 - $861
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7200 (2.00GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 667 MHz FSB), Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium

AV Communication Package None
Memory 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms)
Video Card 256MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 7400 TurboCache™
Hard Drive 80GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
Operating System (Office software not included) Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
Network Card Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
Combo or DVD+RW Drive 8x CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
Sound Options Integrated Audio
Wireless Networking Cards Intel PRO/Wireless 3945a/g
Office Software (not included in Windows XP) Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
Primary Battery 85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
Hardware Warranty 1Yr In-Home Service, Parts +
Bluetooth Options Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate)


-----------------------------------------------------
CTO THINKPAD X61S-1YD Total: $1,070
1 42X0100 ** SBB 12.1"ULTRALIGHT
1 42V8012 SBB MS WIN VISTA HOME BASIC
1 42X0367 SBB MSWINVISHOMB32 US
1 41W2060 VBB 1GB PC2-5300 667MHZ 1DIMM
1 42V9130 SBB 80GB HDD,5400RPM ATA 2.5"
1 62P6054 VBB INTEGR.BLUETOOTH PAN
1 41W1501 SBB INTELPRO/WL3945ABGUSCNLAAP $0.00
1 41W1830 SBB 8CELL LI-ION BATTERY 2.6AH
1 41W1787 SBB CPK NORTH AMERICA $0.00
1 27R1769 SBB PSTN CABLE $0.00
1 42X0202 SBB LANG.PACK_US ENGLISH
1 41W1910 SBB PACKAGING $0.00
1 42V8300 SBB 1GB PC2-5300 DDR2 667MHZ
1 42X1466 SBB CLEAR PLATE X61,WLAN BT
1 42X0412 SBB GEO LBL US,WLAN BT
NEWINTELLAB_DUALCORE/CEDUO $0.00
Qty Component Description Cost
1 42X1461 SBB WLAN,MISC PARTS $0.00

[proaudioguy]

The track point takes some getting used to but it's far superior to a track pad. Other than that though it looks like you got a GREAT deal on the Dell. If you don't mind it being a little bigger and a little heavier, then go for it.

[Antioch]

Actually, many people here are open to other, non-IBM laptops, it's just that many have "been there, done that" and came to the conclusion that for their purposes and in their estimation, a Thinkpad was far superior (Thinkpads have been in production far longer than Dells have been).

In short:
If you've got the extra money (and it's only $190) I'd go for the IBM. The quality is completely worth it.


In long:
Personally I would go with the X61s. Why? Well, you said that you won't be playing games, you won't be watching movies, and you will mostly take the laptop with you when you travel.

The dell is thicker and heavier partially due to the fact that it has the built-in DVD-ROM -- which you won't be using at all, so why lug it's weight and size around?

You said that you will be using the laptop for travel, so I would expect you'd prefer the lighter of the two machines.

You said you wouldn't be gaming so why would you care for an NVIDIA graphics card? They produce heat and suck up battery life and for what? You won't be using it, so again, why suffer it's consequences?

I am also in the process of deciding whether to get an X61s or not and one thing I am thinking about is the trackpoint. I've never really used one (well, I've occasionally used the one built into my T60 and T42 - but nothing seriously), however I have read in a review that they are easy to get used to and that once you do you will prefer them. I don't know how true this is, but I for one am willing to give it a try. I mean, if they were really that horrible, IBM wouldn't be putting them on their laptops for such a long time.

Another thing that I've recently had an experience with was replacing parts on a laptop. I've replaced almost every part of my Thinkpad by hand before (ok, I exaggerate, but a lot none the less) and it is so simple. Every part can be replaced by hand at home. You can upgrade your HD or your RAM easily by hand. The machine was even designed to be opened easily allowing you access to the either motherboard and all integrated peripherals. I've not only replaced my HD and RAM before, but my heatsync-fan and WiFi cards too. These machines are just wonderful to work with.

However, I've recently had the unfortunate experience of needing to replace my girlfriend's laptop's HD. The machine was NOT designed to be opened. I had a hell of a time trying to take the old disk out and put the new disk in. It was horrible. Since then I've come to really appreciate the build of my Thinkpads. (I can't comment on Dell's design, but I'm guessing it is not as nice as IBM's. It may be good, but not as good. I've never once seen a tech manual for a Dell laptop, but I've seen numerous detailed tech documents on ThinkPads that explain exactly how to take every piece of equipment apart, and even lists the part numbers if you'd like to buy a specific part to upgrade or replace. I've never seen that from Dell - they're such control freaks in that sense.)
.
My first laptop was a dell - I hated it. It was hot, heavy, loud, and built out of low(ish) quality parts. I had a horrible experience with it and decided to try a ThinkPad out (a T42 to be exact). I had seen them in the computer store on campus and I loved them. They were thinner than my old Dell was, and much, much more sturdy. I really enjoyed my T42.

I will admit, however, that Dell has since come a long way, but for the money I would rather get something I know is worth it.

Dell support is cr*p - atleast in my experience it is. I have handed down my old Dell to my younger sister and she's had thousands of problems with it. I've been on the phone with Dell support numerous times to get the machine fixed and they just can't do it. They will replace a part, think they fixed the problem, only to have it happen again. They'll replace the same part, the problem will still be there, so guess what they will do? They'll replace the same part again in an attempt to fix it. So far I've had the same part replaced 5 times and it hasn't fixed the problem! After the 5th time and their support wanted to swap the same part again I just hung up. Not only could they not fix it, and constantly used the same idea which obviously didn't work - they would not replace the machine with an equivalent model or a refurbished model. They wouldn't do anything.

But yes, IBM tech support isn't the best either, but it is far better in my opinion. I sent my T42 in a year ago to get the LCD backlight fixed (it had wore out and made a reddish hue). When I received the machine back from the service depot (I had on-site service with my Dell, but I didn't want it for my IBM) I had noticed some scratches on the casing that weren't there when I sent it in. Anyways, long story short I had to send the machine in 3 times total and on the 3rd time a Customer Service representative called me personally and offered to give me an equivalent replacement machine (brand new). I didn't like the specs of the machine she offered so they offered me a FULL refund of the original purchase price of the machine. A full refund! They didn't offer me less because the current market value of the machine had depreciated, they offered me exactly what the original receipt said, including tax.

Bottom line, while no company is perfect, I've had a far superior experience with my Thinkpads and will keep coming back until I find something better.

Sorry for the long post, I just thought you may benefit from hearing one user's experience with Dell and IBM laptops.

[evil_attorney]

Antioch - Thanks for such a detailed post. I hate these decisions, especially since I haven't touched either laptop. I tend to agree with your logic on this one. I'm sure I can deal with the trackpoint. Plus, I would like to try to upgrade the HD to a solid state hard drive once these are more popular/price comes down. I'll stick with the x61s but not cancel my Dell order. If I REALLY hate it the x61s, I will return it and pay the restocking fee and take the Dell.

[BillMorrow]

to build upon the last posters comment:

Actually, many people here are open to other, non-IBM laptops, it's just that many have "been there, done that" and came to the conclusion that for their purposes and in their estimation, a Thinkpad was far superior (Thinkpads have been in production far longer than Dells have been).

i started out with AST power exec laptops, quickly wound up with a thinkpad 700C and never looked back..

the comment about swapping a HDD also caught my eye..

i have an apple macbook pro which i am enjoying hugely..
the downside is this apple has only a touchpad, which i do not like and the HDD is not removeable..
can't experiment with alternate OS's easily on this..

the apple is built more for looks and it looks like jewelry..
beautiful but hard to type on or otherwise use..
i DO like the OS, but it too has its problems..
as well as a steep learning curve (for me)..

there is a reason that the DELL is cheaper..

[evil_attorney]

Actually, the Dell would normally be more expensive. However, the American Express Tailormade club was running a $500 off all Dell products special if you used your Amex Card. They only gave out 40 of these offers and I was lucky enough to get one. I've heard that Dell's quality generally suck, but the XPS systems are an exception to this rule.

[Antioch]

Well, since you don't seem to care about the restocking fee go ahead and see which one you like after you get your hands on it.

I will say though, that once you get your hands on the ThinkPad you'll be in awe. These machines are just so elegant. They're full of quality everywhere you look. I love seeing my sturdy, metal hinges every day, and the plastic doesn't feel cheap.

Bill,
It's actually a funny story about how I had to remove and replace the harddrive. Even though I unscrewed every case screw I could find, the machine would just not split open. So I had to (very carefully) hold the edge of the machine open, unplug the harddisk, and slide the new one back in while making sure it fit in it's housing properly. Needless to say my hand was pretty beat up from plastic scrapes afterwards. After that I swore that some day I'd get her a ThinkPad just because they're so easy to fix.

[vkyr]

Well, the X61s is not only lighter, it also has the much better keyboard, overall better build quality and a matte none-glare panel etc.

The Dell XPS m1210 is in contrast here instead more a consumer based machine, which is powerful in performance, but also very thick and heavy weighting for a 12" subnotebook. Sadly the Dell has those badly mirroring glare-panels and is not in par with the Thinkpad in it's overall build quality. In europe I know a bunch of people who had to order a m1210 three times repeatedly in order to get a correct working one.

Related to a TP trackpoint, there is really nothing better available on the market than an IBM trackpoint, these are very precise (...I can move it easily on a pixel by pixel base if needed) and very comfortable to use. But the best thing about trackpoints is, that you don't have to take your hand from the keyboard in order to use them. You can type and control the trackpoint nearly seamless, which offers a great amount of productivity, when you have to type text and work with the mouse-cursor concurrently.