Thinkpads Forum

ive been searching on lenovo homepage for a x60/61 with higher res than XGA and they have absolutely non - so who's selling lenovo's products with better offers than lenovo them self?

i wonder if lenovo is trying to beat samsung in copying their own products into a million products with tiny differences, because their notebook lists and pdf's are sickening long

the SXGA screen is available on the x60t and x61t. They removed the option for teh x61/s and the x60/s for some reason. Who knows.

btw, multiview+multitouch FTW! screw sxga lol

SuperView SXGA+ has never been an option for the non-tablet X-series.

i dont see anything else but a completly outdated - 12.1" XGA TFT on all their X's

not a single model says "SXGA".

That is because, as was said above, the SXGA+ is only an option on X60T and X61T, not X60/s/X61/s

* VGA - 640 X 480
* SVGA - 800 X 600
* XGA - 1024 X 768
* QVGA - 1280 X 960
* SXGA+ - 1400 X 1050 - NOT this
* UXGA - 1600 X 1200
* QXGA - 2048 X 1536
* QSXGA+ - 2800 X 2100
* QUXGA - 3200 X 2400

* WXGA - 1280 X 800
* WXGA+ - 1440 X 900
* SXGA - 1280 X 1024 - This one in a non tablet, possible?
* WSXGA+ - 1680 X 1050
* WUXGA - 1920 X 1200
* QSXGA - 2560 X 2048

i much rather have a thinkpad but the low res is forcing me towards dells latitude, which has 12 inch 1280 screens. i hva eno clue what lenovo is messing around with 1024 res screens for...

festher wrote:* SXGA - 1280 X 1024 - This one in a non tablet, possible?

No, because it has a 5:4 aspect ratio, not 4:3.

No, there is no option for that. You'll also notice it's a "non standard" aspect ratio. It is actually taller than a "normal" aspect ratio - so if it were ever an option the machine would have to be physically redesigned. This is why the 19" and 17" 1280x1024 LCDs that you can buy retail are "taller" than 20" 1600x1200 or 15" 1024x768 LCDs (in respect to their width).

yea okay i can understand that - then i wish they will increase the res on the rest of the x series - i really fail to see the point in 1024

its an "old" resolution, small lightweight high-tech notebook certainly deserves better huh?

You're barking up the wrong tree. We all feel the same way but we have no power to change this.

Antioch wrote:We all feel the same way

One forum member doesn't: Tomh009.

Doesn't matter. Even if they released a larger resolution *option* he wouldn't be affected, he can always choose the lower resolution screen. But the fact that Lenovo put the SXGA+ LCDs in the tablets as an option shows they recognize it's importance.

It's not that Lenovo chooses not to put SXGA+ LCDs in the regular models, it's that they can't. Many people have pointed out that there are limited supplies of 12" LCDs and in my estimation that number will dwindle. As many people have pointed out almost all other laptops are widescreen - so why should LCD manufacturers make regular aspect ratioed LCDs? There's no market. However, in a certain way it's the LCD manufactuer's fault and the market is like this. They rode on the back of the HDTV wave and told people "widescreen is better" and made a market. But why would they want to? Well, as I've read on the forum, it's cheaper for manufacturers to produce widescreen LCDs, so it's a win win deal for them. Stop making regular LCDs, push people to buy widescreen, make more profit.

Of course, don't quote me, but these are things I've read on the forum here over the last couple of months.

I just received my SXGA X61t last night, and I'm seriously debating exchanging it for an XGA model. The high resolution on such a small screen is ridiculous. I'm 24 years old, good eyesight, run 1600 x 1200 on my non widescreen 19" monitor on my desktop.

I'm sure I wouldn't mind it as much if I was using a mouse, but portability is my number one priority. Coupled with the slightly inaccurate digitizer pen....its just pretty frustrating. I decided to go with the extra real estate because I didn't hear too many positives about the MT screen, and because it'll be easier to multitask. But the resolution is way too high for a 12" screen IMHO.

i would LOVE to swap you but my tablet is an X60..
i really want to see the high res tablet..
can you not send it back to lenovo..?

Relevant wrote:I just received my SXGA X61t last night, and I'm seriously debating exchanging it for an XGA model. The high resolution on such a small screen is ridiculous. I'm 24 years old, good eyesight, run 1600 x 1200 on my non widescreen 19" monitor on my desktop.

I'm sure I wouldn't mind it as much if I was using a mouse, but portability is my number one priority. Coupled with the slightly inaccurate digitizer pen....its just pretty frustrating. I decided to go with the extra real estate because I didn't hear too many positives about the MT screen, and because it'll be easier to multitask. But the resolution is way too high for a 12" screen IMHO.

I've been using a 15" SXGA+ screen for 5 years. When I got my X60 T I could not read the text. It hurt. It actually gave me a bit of a headache for a while. Currently I have it about 2 ft away and I can read every word on this page. In 10 years I doubt that will be the case. Yes, it takes a while to get used to.

For the poster that was [censored] about XGA, I think you are ridiculous. It is a fact that at around the age of 40 MOST men that have always had good solid vision will become far sighted, and require reading glasses. XGA is really usable, and most websites are using that resolution. I think it's perfectly fine to have an XGA 12.1" screen. I would personally like to have the full size A31 keyboard minus the web buttons, with an IPS WUXGA. For my activities, this would allow me to fit more FADERS on the screen without scrolling.

As for the X60/s, having the choice of a high res would be good, but XGA is by no means ridiculous.

BillMorrow wrote:i would LOVE to swap you but my tablet is an X60..
i really want to see the high res tablet..
can you not send it back to lenovo..?

Bill come on over. You can look at my tablet.

I'm in Volusia County, not too far from Daytona.

lenovo will forever be the dinosaur when it comes to screens.

Relevant - You can probably return it for the restocking fee or try to sell it on the forums - I'm sure someone would rather buy it now than wait for a CTO model to ship.

Before you get rid of it, would you mind taking a picture on the unit with a close up on the screen? Just so we can judge how it all plays out - I've been wondering and can't imagine how it looks.

Thanks!

Proaudioguy - Why did you go with the sxga+ tablet? I personally am debating still and it hurts. I, like you, use a 19" 1600x1200 LCD as primary (and a CRT of the same resolution before then) and I don't know if I can get used to XGA (I hope I can) but I don't know if buying a table is worth it: I may or may not ever use it as a tablet for writing, and as such don't know if it's worth the added weight and size... What was your thought process at the time?

Antioch wrote: Proaudioguy - Why did you go with the sxga+ tablet? I personally am debating still and it hurts. I, like you, use a 19" 1600x1200 LCD as primary (and a CRT of the same resolution before then) and I don't know if I can get used to XGA (I hope I can) but I don't know if buying a table is worth it: I may or may not ever use it as a tablet for writing, and as such don't know if it's worth the added weight and size... What was your thought process at the time?

I needed the real estate. I also needed the tablet or else I wouldn't have even bought a computer at all. My A31 is still going strong. I use them together. I actually use remote desktop to control the A31 with the X60T. I wanted a true touch screen but considering the pressure it takes to operate it, I'm glad I went or the high res screen. The screen is so crisp and clear. I can see the text fine now. It just took some getting used to. 3 or 4 years ago this would not have been an issue. I would have been asking for a 1600x1200 and loving it. I'm 36 and I have noticed my better than clinically perfect eye sight gradually leaving me. My eyes are hardening. It's only a matter of time before the rest of me dries out with them and returns to the earth. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. I feel a mid life crises coming on. Where's that C6 I want to buy?

FYI, my wife was an optician/ optical manager for 17 years. Anyone need a mortgage?

Well, it's an interesting theme and I'am also often somehow in doubt if a SXGA+ resolution wouldn't be maybe too small on 12" TFT-panels.

If I look over some of Eric Mack's shots from his SXGA+ X61T here...

click here to see

...I can halfway imaging that the 1400 x 1050 pixel resolution might be too small for aging eyes. In contrast here the good old XGA resolution as known from the other X-series models shouldn't be of any problem.

On the other side, as a software developer, I fear that the XGA resolution wouldn't possibly be very comfortable when working with a bunch of IDE and editor windows. - In other words, on a 12" SXGA+ display there should be enough space to arrange and fit many windows beneath or side by side etc. However, if text/source code etc. would be shown up too small here on a SXGA+ screen, it would hurt of course too when working longer time/hours on such a resolution.

The taking XGA or SXGA+ resolution debate is at least for those who plan to go with the X61Tablet always a difficult choice, especially if people doen't have the chance to preview both tablets live vis-a-vis for visual tryouts. - Maybe some good comparative side-by-side resolution screen images of applications in action would help here a little bit to make the right decision for the individual eyesights.


Another point not to forget to mention is, that the X61T displays also have a different overall luminance...

- Standard XGA = 12.1" (307mm) XGA (1024x768) TFT color, 185 nits, 4:3, 500:1, 170° viewing

- Superview SXGA+ = 12.1" (307mm) SXGA+ (1400x1050) color, 190 nits, 4:3, 500:1, 170° viewing, direct bonding panel (SuperView) for improved outdoor viewability

- Touch XGA = 12.1" (307mm) XGA (1024x768) TFT color, 4:3, 150 nits, 170° viewing / MultiView (indoor/outdoor), MultiTouch (touchscreen via finger and pen)

...where the standard XGA und the SXGA+ panel should offer a visible higher luminance of ~190 nits versus only 150 nits of the multitouch panel.

All in all it's always a hard decision to make and thus it would be best for everyone to preview the different models side by side, if possible, before selcting and buying one.

vkyr wrote:
Another point not to forget to mention is, that the X61T displays also have a different overall luminance...

- Standard XGA = 12.1" (307mm) XGA (1024x768) TFT color, 185 nits, 4:3, 500:1, 170° viewing

- Superview SXGA+ = 12.1" (307mm) SXGA+ (1400x1050) color, 190 nits, 4:3, 500:1, 170° viewing, direct bonding panel (SuperView) for improved outdoor viewability

- Touch XGA = 12.1" (307mm) XGA (1024x768) TFT color, 4:3, 150 nits, 170° viewing / MultiView (indoor/outdoor), MultiTouch (touchscreen via finger and pen)

...where the standard XGA und the SXGA+ panel should offer a visible higher luminance of ~190 nits versus only 150 nits of the multitouch panel.

All in all it's always a hard decision to make and thus it would be best for everyone to preview the different models side by side, if possible, before selcting and buying one.

I think it's important to note that until the X61 T, the Multi Touch Multi View was the brightest choice. It's not just the backlight that makes it bright. It actually uses ambient light in the room which is partly why it is MV, viewable in sunlight and wide angles. The new Super View SXGA+ (which is erroneously listed on Lenovo as MV SXGA), uses the same technology to reflect light.

As for programming, I would think one of those geek machines with the 17" UXGA or WUXGA would be the way to go. Yes, they are heavy and have poor battery life, but they will have many other benefits, including lots of easy to read real estate. I don't know specifically who makes the various models, but I see them on the job all the time. I do not envy the weight, since I already carry a lot of stuff, but those guys usually just have a backpack, so I don't suppose it's an issue.

Relevant wrote:I just received my SXGA X61t last night, and I'm seriously debating exchanging it for an XGA model. The high resolution on such a small screen is ridiculous.

Please give it a few more days. You may get used to it. When I first started using 14.1" SXGA+ (124.1 dots per inch), I found it too high, but adjusted to it within a day or two. The same process happened when I subsequently upgraded to 15.0" 1600x1200 (133.3 DPI), then 15.4" 1920x1200 (147.0 DPI), and finally 15.0" 2048x1536 (170.7 DPI). After getting used to each upgrade, I loved the extra real estate, despite my relatively poor vision.

Antioch wrote:I, like you, use a 19" 1600x1200 LCD as primary

I think you meant 20"? I've never seen a 19" 1600x1200 LCD monitor, but if there's one, I'd love to get one. My 20" UXGA Samsung is just a tad too big.

Sorry, I did mean 20". I only recently upgraded (Actually a year ago) and I'm still thinking of my 19" CRT.

[censored] it. I want SXGA+ but I don't want a tablet - I don't think I'd ever use it.

proaudioguy wrote:
I think it's important to note that until the X61 T, the Multi Touch Multi View was the brightest choice. It's not just the backlight that makes it bright. It actually uses ambient light in the room which is partly why it is MV, viewable in sunlight and wide angles. The new Super View SXGA+ (which is erroneously listed on Lenovo as MV SXGA), uses the same technology to reflect light.

As for programming, I would think one of those geek machines with the 17" UXGA or WUXGA would be the way to go....

Yes, for the X60T panels the Multiview panel (advertized with just 150 nits) always seemed to be brighter on pictures than the SXGA+ panel (advertized with 180 nits).

I also wonder how bright the usual X60T/X61T XGA panel, which is advertized with 185 nits, finally might be in contrast to the XGA MultiView and SXGA+ SuperView panels?

However, as we all know, advertized vendor luminance values and the measured reality are often somehow quite a different pair of shoes! So nobody should really trust those marketing values.

Related to big heavy geek machines for programming etc., I already have such a monster with an UXGA IPS screen, >4 kg weight due to two build-in odds and two hdds in raid. It's nothing I would recomend to the mobile road warriors, since such desktop replacements are heavy, loud and noisy. If you have to carry this for longer time on your shoulders, you would for sure have sooner or later some broken shoulder. Further it's nothing to fit in front of your airplane or train seat comfortably, similar like -->shown here<-- of course I don't own or have such an extreme Dell, but it's a good example picture.

So nowadays people should also be able to work quite challenging with some performant 12" C2D subnotebook, as far as it's screen and keyboard quality allow to do so. And I believe it should be possible with the right X61-series model.

Antioch wrote:[censored] it. I want SXGA+ but I don't want a tablet - I don't think I'd ever use it.

I looked at the Tabook more closely yesterday and learned something shocking. The weight of the X61 tablet is stated as:

4-cell: starting at 3.77 lb (1.71kg); 8-cell: starting at 4.25 lb (1.93kg)

...which is ambiguous. But for the X60 tablet, it's more clear:

4-cell: 3.7 to 4.1 lb (1.7 to 1.9kg);
8-cell: 4.2 to 4.6lb (1.9 to 2.1kg)

The lower and upper limits almost certainly corresponds to the XGA and SXGA+ models respectively. The SXGA+ X60 tablet with 8-cell weighs 4.6 lbs, which is barely (0.1 - 0.2 lbs) lighter than an 14.1" SXGA+ T60 with 6-cell and travel bezel! This is ridiculous. If you want a light SXGA+ laptop, the 3.4-lb 14.1" Panasonic Y5 or Y7 (which happens to have an internal optical drive) is the solution.

pianowizard wrote:...When I first started using 14.1" SXGA+ (124.1 dots per inch), I found it too high, but adjusted to it within a day or two. The same process happened when I subsequently upgraded to 15.0" 1600x1200 (133.3 DPI), then 15.4" 1920x1200 (147.0 DPI), and finally 15.0" 2048x1536 (170.7 DPI). After getting used to each upgrade, I loved the extra real estate, despite my relatively poor vision...

Hmm, the 12.1" 1400 x 1050 SXGA+ has a density of 144.6 DPI, a pixel size of 0.1756 mm and ~1,4 MP on a 12.1" surface and thus 87% more gain than the XGA panel. - The XGA in contrast has 105.8 DPI, a pixel size of 0.2401 mm and 0.75 MP.

BTW, what was the 15" 2048x1536 (170.7 DPI) for a panel device, an external monitor?

vkyr wrote:BTW, what was the 15" 2048x1536 (170.7 DPI) for a panel device, an external monitor?

Nope, it's a laptop LCD specially designed for the R50p. See my signature and this thread.

Ah Ok I see, it was a QXGA 15" Thinkpad panel.

PianoWizard: Yes, I've seen those Panasonic models when I was at school in Japan last year. I don't like them very much (primarily because of the circular trackpad - it makes moving around feel strange). They're also expensive, but it's nice to see they updated their hardware - last time I looked the internals were a bit old and I was disappointed.

Does anybody with a X60T/X61T SXGA+ panel running Vista has tried out these --> Vista's DPI scaling <-- capabilities?