X61s: 2nd mini PCIe slot only available with WWAN or ReadyBo

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d3 · #1 Post by d3 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:10 am

Hi

Is the 2nd PCIe port in the X61 only available if it is configured with 2 PCIe cards? On the pictures: http://www.tpuser.idv.tw/articles/santarosa-test-4.html is the 2nd PCIe slot missing.

Jackboot · #2 Post by **Jackboot** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:19 am

Those are great pictures comparing the physical differences between the X61 and X61s as well as the new cooling solution for the right palm rest. I wish I could read the text to get a full explanation.

Jackboot · #3 Post by **Jackboot** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:50 am

Using a google translation I get this regarding the 2nd PCIe slot:

"Visitor from the municipality, we can see the second group X61s mini-PCI Express expansion slot is empty welding , it is not possible to install Intel Turbo memory modules. Guo also head of Turbo memory test operation of the maximum temperature of 47.2 degrees for, Therefore, the proposed station is not in lodging-Series installing Turbo memory modules, Palmrest to avoid deterioration of the high-temperature issue."

The author seems to be saying that the 2nd PCIe slot is left empty (when not configured with WWAN?) and it is not possible to install a turbo memory card. If a turbo memory card was installed it would get too hot since heat in that area is already an issue and the newly designed fan cooling solution is not present if not pre-configured with turbo memory or WWAN. At least, that's my translation from a bad google translation

d3 · #4 Post by d3 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:18 am

Thank you. Google translation was a good idea

.
I didn't notice that x61 and x61s have different sizes. Why did lenovo not use the bigger fan of the x61 in the x61s too?
So, if I do want the 2nd PCIe slot, I have to buy the intel turbo memory? But Intel turbo memory is not available with 512 MB RAM. That means I have to buy the overpriced lenovo RAM. Nice.

#5 Post by **tomh009** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:29 am

The 1 GB option is not so badly priced -- it's the 2 GB modules that are really overpriced.

d3 · #6 Post by d3 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:48 am

65$ for 1x 1GB RAM @ lenovo (+taxes)
65$ for 2x 1GB RAM (Patriot) @frys.com, free shipping.

Jackboot · #7 Post by **Jackboot** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:31 am

I am picking up my X61s which I ordered with NO turbo memory, NO WWAN, and only 1 x 512MB RAM today.

I can confirm if I only have one PCIe slot by tonight. That google translation is very rough at best and it is quite possible we are misunderstanding the issue.

sugo · #8 Post by **sugo** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:59 am

Jackboot wrote:Those are great pictures comparing the physical differences between the X61 and X61s as well as the new cooling solution for the right palm rest. I wish I could read the text to get a full explanation.

I have been reading various thinkpad reviews from that Taiwan site in the past few years. They were all objective, detailed and professional. A few points the author made on X61/s:

1. The author shared the X60/s hot palmrest concerns with engineers at Yamato Lab in Japan during a visit last year.

2. The 2nd fan was intended for bringing air flow over the WLAN card and comes out of the vent at the bottom.

3. With palmrest removed on the X61s, the infrared gun got the following temperature readings:
* 4965AGN:--------------53'C (max)
* Atheros abg:------------58.5'C(Max)
* 3945ABG:--------------60'C(Max)
* Atheros 11n:-----------63.4'C(Max)

4. Based on temperature, the author recommends the 4965AGN due to its significantly lower temperature. However, the performance of 4965AGN was disappointing. Compatibility with Draft N routers is worse than Atheros 11n card.

5. With palmrest in place and room temperature 25'C, the infrared gun shows about 36-38'C with light web browsing.

6. The 2nd fan is not effective in solving the hot palmrest problem. It also added noise and power consumption. In summary, palmrest heat issue remains on X61/s.

7. X3x series didn't have heat problem from WLAN card at all. Even though X6x is thinner and modern looking, it's more practical to have a laptop without hot palmrest.

8. At full load, X61's fan is louder than T61's fan. The reason is that T61's fan rotates at lower speed. T61 also has more spacing for air flow.

#9 Post by **tomh009** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:34 pm

Since I can't read the Taiwanese reviews ...

sugo wrote:4. Based on temperature, the author recommends the 4965AGN due to its significantly lower temperature. However, the performance of 4965AGN was disappointing. Compatibility with Draft N routers is worse than Atheros 11n card.

Is the performance issue related to 802.11n only, or also abg? Can you provide any details?

sugo wrote:5. With palmrest in place and room temperature 25'C, the infrared gun shows about 36-38'C with light web browsing.

With which wireless card? There is 10C difference between the 4965agn and the Atheros agn.

sugo wrote:6. The 2nd fan is not effective in solving the hot palmrest problem. It also added noise and power consumption.

Was there any difference in temperature? Was there a WWAN card installed?

sugo · #10 Post by **sugo** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:54 pm

The performance comment is only for 11n. With 4965AGN, connecting to D-Link DIR-655 Xtreme N shows 144Mbps connected speed and not 300Mbps. 4965AGN couldn't operate at draft-N at all when Connecting to ZyXEL and Buffalo draft-N routers, only back to 802.11g. With Atheros 11n, it's consistently connected at 300Mbps.

The author wasn't crystal clear on which card when he did the w/palmrest infrared gun testing (36-38'C). It's most likely 4965AGN since that's what he concentrates on in the preceeding three paragraphs.

No WWAN card installed. The author mentioned that palmrest temperature for X61 + 3945ABG (no 2nd fan) is lower than X61s + Atheros 11n (with 2nd fan). He didn't say how much lower.

#11 Post by **tomh009** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:37 pm

Thanks. My X61 is arriving with a 4965AGN, and based on that, I'm happy with that -- lowest temperature (which probably also means lowest power consumption) and any issues are only with the 'n' networking, which is not yet final and which I don't plan on using for the short-to-medium term. And maybe the 4965AGN will be cool enough out of the box ...

But I'm still curious as to what difference the 2nd fan would make in an apples-to-apples comparison (same model, same wireless, no WWAN). How much temperature difference, and how much noise. Hopefully someone will be able to test this soon.

Antioch · #12 Post by **Antioch** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:41 pm

sugo wrote:8. At full load, X61's fan is louder than T61's fan. The reason is that T61's fan rotates at lower speed. T61 also has more spacing for air flow.

Sugo, did he mention idling and normal speeds? This is what I am most concerned about. My T60 idles very loudly and as an X61s is its replacement I'd like to make sure, more than anything else, that it is quiet (and hopefully unnoticeable) when idling (eg in BIOS or sitting in windows doing nothing) and when under light load (eg web browsing or typing a document).

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Jackboot, when your machine comes can you try to answer my question - or if you can answer my other relating question in this thread

Appreciate it.

sugo · #13 Post by **sugo** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:38 pm

Antioch, for idle fan noise the author only included the official sound pressure specs from Lenovo:

ThinkPad T61:

Acoustic noise level: Category 3D (office environment)
‧ Low cooling fan speed:
– Sound power level: 3.7 bels (idling), 4.0 bels (HDD seeking)

ThinkPad X61:

Acoustic noise level: Category 3D (office environment)
‧ Sound power level:
– 3.4 bels (idling)

SFWrtr · #14 Post by **SFWrtr** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:12 am

Side/related- issue with daughter cards:

The factory screws in the cards extremely tightly. I had a tech come out to replace all the cards (my WWAN was acting up, but they decided to change them all). The screws were over-torqued and could not be removed, so we had to depot the machine.

The lesson here is not to assume you could switch out a card yourself if you wanted to. (As I said, a side-issue.) See my web site for pictures of the WWAN card installed, then with the screw stripped by the IBM tech who really tried hard not to do that.

Btw, the X61 tablet is very very quiet when running on battery using a maximum battery profile. I like it.

Antioch · #15 Post by **Antioch** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:15 am

Hmm. I might try swapping an X61s cooling fan for an X61 cooling fan and see if the "larger" fan makes any difference (if I decide to pick up an X61s after I've heard more reports on fan noise).

sugo · #16 Post by **sugo** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:43 am

Doesn't X61 use a larger primary fan than X61s? I am not sure if you can actually switch.

Antioch · #17 Post by **Antioch** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:29 am

Yes, it does use a larger fan. But take a look at the pictures - the smaller fan has empty space around it that is filled by the larger fan.
A swap should work.

(Im referring to the pictures posted in the link above).

Antioch · #18 Post by **Antioch** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:18 am

Jackboot - still waiting on your confirmation...

Thanks.

X61s: 2nd mini PCIe slot only available with WWAN or ReadyBo

X61s: 2nd mini PCIe slot only available with WWAN or ReadyBo

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