Thinkpads Forum

Chaps,

Hello. First post - please be gentle with me!

I have had something of a saga of trying to get hold of a Lenovo X61s lappie. Suffice it to say that I received a machine last week, and it wasn't really up to muster from my point of view. (Spec: Intel Duo Core 1.6gig Santa Rosa processor, 4Gb RAM, 180-wotists HDD, XP Pro, Office.)

Why?

1. It is dog slow. Slow to boot up, slow to close down, slow to run apps, slow to even populate the screen with the icons when you close a window. Really, surprisingly slow. I would expect a machine of this spec to pretty much hover above the surface of the desk - this doesn't at all. (I also have a brilliant old IBM X31 which I thought was dying, but still runs quicker than the new X61s ... )

2. The 'PC Doctor' diagnostic program that can be run from start-up (using the "ThinkVantage" button) says that only one of the two cores in the processor is operational, and it is 'Misconfigured.'

3. The machine seems to be very badly made - the screen doesn't clip down properly when the machine is closed, and shows a lot of loose movement - 'play'.

4. The battery life is very poor - less than 2 hours on a full charge with moderate use.

So I kicked up a stink with the supplier, who today supplied me with a replacement machine of the same spec, taking away the previous one.

And this new one shows ALL of the same problems.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to why:

1. BOTH machines should show a misconfigured processor when the PC Doctor diagnostic routine is run?

2. How to make this machine run quicker? I have removed large amounts of the ThinkVantage software, but have left on the "Active Protection System" (protects the HDD if the machine is moved) and the Fingerprint Sensor software. I have removed Norton. I have removed a pile of other bloatware it came with to do with Yahoo toolbars and suchlike. I have checked the BIOS - it is up-to-date. I have run Win Update. I have run CCleaner. I have removed everything from the Start>Programs>Startup menu. It is STILL taking around twice as long to boot up as my old X31, running identical software and applications (Win XP/Office/Firefox/other bits.)

Any comments would be welcomed. I am at a bit of a loss as to what to do. Given that both machines seem to suffer from the same malaise, I can only assume that either I am doing something wrong (although I have run both of them out of the box - chat can I have done wrong?) OR my expectations are too high.

I am also aware that if I go back to the supplier saying that this machine is ALSO not good enough, I may get a somewhat frosty reception. (Not that this is a reason not to do it, but I want to be pretty sure of my ground before going down this route.)

All suggestions welcome.

Thanks.


Oli.

... should you be wondering, this is the output of the aforementioned PC Doctor diagnostic run:

==================
PC-Doctor Test Result Log
==================

Completed Passes: 1 of 1
Start Time: 12/22/2007 0:14:36 am
End Time: 12/22/2007 0:16:17 am

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU L7500 @ 1.60GHz CPU:0
CPU: Register Test...Passed
CPU: Level 2 Cache Test...Passed
CPU: Math Register Test...Passed
CPU: MMX Test...Passed
CPU: SSE Test...Passed
CPU: SSE2 Test...Passed
CPU: SSE3 Test...Passed
CPU: SSSE3 Test...Passed
CPU: Multicore Test...Misconfigured
Warning (51): There are 2 cores in the CPU and only 1 core is enabled.
Warning (53): We need a minimum of two cores to run the test.

Can you please confirm that the problems you are reporting exist in a both X61s ThinkPads as they came out of the box..... that is before you have attached anything to the ThinkPad or removed/ modified any software was on it?

Cheers,

Bill B.

2. Go to BIOS and make sure "Core Multi-Processing" is enabled under CPU, Disabled setting only runs one core.

A member on NoteBookReview.com reported the same problem on thinkpad T61, IBM support fixed it for him/her:

SMBIOS Standards Test fails on a T61.

Gents,

Many thanks for your replies.

Bill Bolton - yes, both exhibited the same problems, as follows.

Machine 1, I opened, turned on, and installed commonly-used apps (Office/Firefox etc), thought it was running badly and ran the diagnostics. This showed the core problem as described.

It went back, and Machine 2 arrived (the one I am working on now.) I did the same diagnostics literally out of the box - the first time I turned it on - with the same result.

Machine 2 seems to be slightly more stable on wireless networks than Machine 1, which is a slight comfort I guess. Everything else seems as bad tho' - poor fit of screen, very poor performance and poor battery life. And, of course, the core problems.

Ryengineer - thanks very much for that link, it is helpful to know that others have had the same problem. I'll try the diagnostic software as suggested on that thread. However, it looks like that person didn't get it totally solved either ... Dual Core Processing is enabled in the BIOS (and was on Machine 1 as well.)

Thanks again for your help. Any more suggestions welcome. I'll keep this forum updated with progress (if any!)


Oli.

If the machines are under warranty, don't waste time and call tech support. In USA the number is 800-IBM-SERV.
Don't know the number for UK.

Regarding startup speeds, I use Windows Live OneCare which has a built-in program that lets you de-select unneccessary startup programs (there are lots of them). You can probably google to find other programs that will disable these startup programs.

DFumento,

It's tempting to throw it all back at IBM and get them to sort it out, however having seen the same symptoms on both machines I am wondering whether either I am doing something wrong (although what it is I don't know), or these machines just happen to run like this. I don't want to make a complete twit of myself by repeatedly sending back machines which are fine - I don't want to waste my time or theirs.

The suggestion has been made (elsewhere) that I may do well to rebuild the machine without any extra software - just straight from an XP disk (which I have). Can I achieve a straight re-build without the additional software using the re-build partition, or will this put all the thinkvantage software on as well?

If I do go down the rebuild from an XP disk route, how can I actually do this? The machine has no built-in drives, and I would need to access the CD across a network (or from a USB CD drive.) Would this work, or would the rebuild stop part-way through as it would lose network access?

Or would you say simply not to attempt this in any way shape or form?

Thanks again for your help. (I'm actually not going to do any more on this tonight - it's about 1.00am here, and I'm tired!)


Oli.

Restoring from Rescue & Recovery partition will put the machine to the same condition as the two new machines you received before power on - with many extra software that might contribute to the slowness.

You might want to download the LAN and WiFi driver to a USB drive first before you wipe the drive for a fresh XP install.

I have a T61. After a fresh XP install. It's fast.

zcacogp wrote:snip....The suggestion has been made (elsewhere) that I may do well to rebuild the machine without any extra software - just straight from an XP disk (which I have). Can I achieve a straight re-build without the additional software using the re-build partition, or will this put all the thinkvantage software on as well?

You can perform Custom Factory Restore from the service partition though.

zcacogp wrote:snip....or would the rebuild stop part-way through as it would lose network access?....snip

I think so, yes.

Hi,

as was suggested in some of the previous posts, get some partition manipulating, backup & recovery SW and make a backup of your complete system before giving it a fresh start from XP install disk. For me the PING does the job together with an external HDD: you burn the PING’s ISO image on CD, boot from this CD, through a *very* simple menu you select which disk to backup and to which location/disk to put the image to (an external disk in my case). This way you back up complete content of your HDD, incl. all configuration and special apps. You do the tests and in case you want to revert back to original configuration you simply connect the external disk with backup image, boot from PING CD again, and run restore. The interface is very simple so anyone can use it. http://ping.windowsdream.com/ping/download.html

As for the slow run of your X61: I’m in a bit specific situation as I’m using a company X60 notebook (1GB RAM, 1.6 GHz Intel Core Duo), prior to it I was using T30. Both systems were running XP with tons of pre-installed firewalls, disk ciphering tools, remote monitoring tools, and alike.

Whereas T30 slowed down over time as I populated the system with more apps and drivers like windows tend to do, the X60 came in *very slow* already. It can easily spent 20 minutes with intensive I/O disk operations upon a restart even if it was shut down correctly prior to this.

Of course this is very subjective feeling rather then exact measurement. Chances are that even more corporate SW is installed with this image of XP compared to T30 times, however my colleagues with T60s do not complain.

Based on this thread I tried to check the use of dual core – I used PC Wizard 2008 (http://www.cpuid.com/pcwizard.php) and both cores show activity (CPU load) in this tool.

To me it seems the bottleneck is in disk operations (very frequent). Specific case is having the remote network disks mapped permanently, even if disconnected from the network – sometimes the system tries to access these even if not available and this halts explorer operations (or whatever app that is trying to reach the remote disk) easily.

All this is however only personal feelings. I’ve made no other attempt to find out what’s behind the slow speed due to both time constraints and difficulties doing such a research on a company PC. Plus I use the comp mainly for Outlook and Word for which – once these apps are up & running – the notebook still has abundance of computing power. For the rest I’m using my private desktop PC.

Yet starting these or any other applications up is pain. The notebook is simply perceived as very slow to respond compared to other systems I get to work with - and again: no exact measurement, only personal perception. The poor X60 runs a ciphering SW that scrambles the content of the whole disk, plus regularly scans for viruses, etc. – of course this doesn’t speed the computer up., On the other hand when compared with other systems doing the same (e.g. T60) it is considerably slower. My personal feeling is that it is even a bit slower then the old good T30 (which also had whole disc scrambled and those other tools were in use).

For me X60 (that I ordered by mistake instead of T60) is also sporting two other significant flaws besides being [censored] slow: there is no CD/DVD drive in the body (only in the docking station) which is something competition of the same size has. And the docking station / port replicator has no DVI output: thus the picture on the 21” LCD (coming from IBM as well) is blurred and notably flickering.

Conclusion for me is: stay away from X series and go for T. It is bigger and heavier but in return for dragging the big beast around you get a powerful tool with a big display instead of a shrunk toy one can only show off but do no real work with.

Happy Christmas all.

Another "the X60 is dog slow" vote from me. I was looking forward to my T2400 dual core, 2Gb, 7200rpm 100Gb disk etc etc after my X22 and X31. I went for a fresh install of Vista Business and have not ceased to be amazed at how more than 5 minutes is required for boot up and how a task as simple as creating a new directory can take nearly a minute (no, really). Programs take an age to start (and shut down). In fact everything just crawls along, everything.

I presumed it was a "not ready for release" Vista at fault but other Vista experiences have proved this to not be the case.

The X60 is appalingly slow. Period. Sad but true.

Jonathan

After doing a custom RnR install on my X61T, I followed some of the tips listed here http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3945 and I have found my boot time to be significantly shortened.

Hello

How much RAM is recognized by Windows? You can check with the device manager or with Shift-Ctrl-Esc. Also with Shift-Ctrl-Esc you can see how many cores are recognized by Windows.

A system which is painting one icon after the other is usually out of memory. You would also see or hear the hard disk trashing while the icons are redrawn. Now of course 4GB (of which max. 3 will be usable) would be more than enough, but maybe the RAM is defect or incompatible.

The 8 cell battery should last 6-8 hours with normal use, the 4 cell about half this time. Again, if you don't have enough memory then the harddisk is constantly paging in and out and will use up a lot of battery.

The X61s (and the X60s) is a fast machine, believe me! There must be something wrong with your configuration.

P.S. If you feel adventurous you can install Vista 64 and by this use all of your RAM. I'd wait for the final release of the Vista service pack, though.

I'm using 3gbs with Vista 32 Business and its working well with my X61T. I also have VistaB configured for max performance rather than graphics.
My machine is pretty tweaked and running fast and sweet!

Chaps,

Back after spending Christmas with the in-laws, and tackling this poor-performing X61s again.

And there are lots of new comments on this thread! Thanks to everyone for your input.

A bit of an update first. I have re-built the machine from the lenovo built-in factory restore mechanism, and NOT put on all of the lenovo additional apps. It seemed to put on the fingerprint recogniser (but not the full security solution) and the HDD-protection app, but these are two that I think may have real-world use, so I am not too upset.

I have run Win Update to ensure that everything is as it should be.

I have dowloaded and installed systemupdate310-2007-10-24.exe, the system update file from the lenovo website. This is running as I type this - downloading some more stuff. I expect it to complete in the next few minutes.

I have yet to install office.

It is still not performing as quickly as my old X31. By some margin. (That machine is running identical software - XP Pro, Office, updated daily.)

Thanks for your comments. I'll try and respond.

zdenek.katina - you are more technical than me, and I didn't follow your suggestions about about the PING software - I just rebuilt the machine (there is nothing on here yet which I want to salvage.) However, I will try the PC Wizard app you suggest, thanks. It sounds like you are having problems with the performance of your X60 as well - comments about local apps notwithstanding.

JonathanW - you are in the same boat as me. Sorry to hear it. Thus far, between the two X61s's I have had, and yours, perhaps X61's are simply that - dog slow. Mine is on XP tho' - yours is Vista.

Trekk69 - thanks for the link. The suggestions there are for Vista machines - I'll see if I can find an equivalent for XP.

Tinue - someone has suggested that 4GB is too much RAM for XP, so I have taken one of the chips out. It is now at 2MB, and all of this is recognised by the machine. The Win Task Manager shows two graphs, apparently for the two cores in the processor, so perhaps they are both working. (The two graphs are different as well.) However, why does PC Doctor report a misconfigured CPU? And why is it running so slowly? Your assertions that the X61s is a fast machine are reassuring, but this is not so from what I have seen - certainly the spec is very good, but the experience is somewhat lacking.

Ryengineer - I still have to followup the suggestions on the link you posted. Thanks again for this - this is the most positive lead thus far.


Oli.

Thanks for the update!
Good to hear its performing (slightly) better.
Check the TuneXP program from the link, I know thats originally for XP.

Trekk,

Emphasis on slightly. We are talking fractions of a percentage here. using it is still a very lumpy experience, and not one I would recommend. That it is still knocked into cocked hats by a machine 4 years old probably sums it up best. I will use my X31 in preference ...

An example of which is the TuneXP software. I am tried to download it using the X61s, but after the 7th attempt (which, like the earlier 6 attempts, hung excessively) I have given up and used my desktop machine.

Surely a machine which is this crummy to use cannot be right?


Oli.

zcacogp wrote: Surely a machine which is this crummy to use cannot be right?

Well, I don't know how to respond. My only other option would be to give Vista a try?
But regardless of what you choose to do, whether it be persevere or switch out altogether, I wish you the best of luck!

zcacogp wrote:snip......However, why does PC Doctor report a misconfigured CPU? And why is it running so slowly?......snip

This is not normal at all, kindly contact IBM Support Center in your country by calling 08705-500-900 between 9-6pm M-F.

Chaps,

Thanks for your comments - one and all.

I have spoken with the supplier of the machine (my account manager is now back from Christmas hols), and explained the situation to him. Given that I am now on the second laptop, and it has all the same problems as the first, I have agreed with him that I will pursue the IBM/Lenovo support system, and see what they can do to help. If this fails, I'll return the unit to them for a refund.

So, thanks Ryengineer, I will indeed be calling that telephone number.

To make things worse, the machine is now refusing to connect to a wireless network! It will connect, but will not accept an IP address so offers "Limited connectivity" (namely won't work.) This is despite being within 18 inches of the Access Point, and having the MAC address entered correctly. (And two other laptops in the house are connecting just fine!)

I'll keep you all posted with what IBM support has to say.

Thanks again for your help.


Oli.

P.S. Tune XP was pretty good, and helped the performance a bit. It also helped the performance on my old X31 HUGELY and my desktop machine as well! So, very many thanks for the recommendation. Snag is, this has now highlighted how much behind the X31 the new X61s machine is ... ironic, eh?

Hello.. I am having similar problems. Until I saw your post, I was under the impression that its Norton Anti Virus's fault. I was under the impression that probaly the anti virus is scanning every window befre displaying on screen.

I am experiencing this delay especially with IE. when I launch IE... it takes for ever to open the home page even though its Google.com.

I am very egar to learn what the IBM tech support would tell you on this issue ou have.

VizagDude wrote:snip....I am experiencing this delay especially with IE. when I launch IE... it takes for ever to open the home page even though its Google.com.....snip

T61 - Slow IE load times.