New Apple subnotebook or new ThinkPad X?

[pibach]

Regarding touchscreen discussion: there is now a technology leap forward going on, induced by capacitive touch (instead of resistive touch). This will be much cheaper, more accurate, more responsive, grain free and will make a huge difference. Particularly on devices too small to fit in a full sized keyboard (i.e., 10" and smaller).
I am expecting >50% of all mobile devices sold in 2010 to have that (smartphones, MIDs, UMPCs, tablets, laptops).

[dfumento]

In the movie, "You've Got Mail" with Tom Hanks as a major bookstore owner who is taking putting Meg Ryan's little childrens' bookstore out of business (and takes place in the Upper West Side of Manhattan where I live) they email to each other using AOL. Hanks uses a Thinkpad and Ryan uses a Apple laptop. I think that says everything.

[3rods]

In the movie, "You've Got Mail" with Tom Hanks as a major bookstore owner who is taking putting Meg Ryan's little childrens' bookstore out of business (and takes place in the Upper West Side of Manhattan where I live) they email to each other using AOL. Hanks uses a Thinkpad and Ryan uses a Apple laptop. I think that says everything.

Haha... I'll have what she's having.

I bought an Apple Macbook Pro 15" a few months ago, the intel version w/ 2GB of ram. I liked the apps and the gui was certainly fancy, but I ended up taking it back after a week. I did like the sleek design and the battery life was great, it had neat little features like a lighted keyboard and a magnetic power cord so people didn't break their neck or the laptop (more importantly) if they tripped over the cord.

I didn't like the fact that you couldn't cut and paste files in the OS, I mean this is (was) 2007 and you have to drag and drop files up or down levels of folders? Come on. Windows 3.11 could cut and paste files. I also didn't like that a lot of the drivers were proprietary and created difficulty when wanting to install linux or another OSes on the laptop.

But the biggest issue I had with it was the availability of software. Unless you're going to use only the software that came with it, buy adobe products or figure out how to compile your own, there isn't a lot of software for Mac. Historically there really never was. I can't justify being held back by my hardware or software.

That being said, if you can afford, monetarily and technically, to run OSX then you should go for it. The OS is fairly stable (yes, I was able to crash OSX a few times), it's very user friendly and it has (from what I hear) good phone support.

I wouldn't bet on being able to use one at work though; there are very few corporations I've found that would even consider allowing an Apple to join their domain or operate on their network.

The Apple salesperson was so sad when I brought it back. It was like I ran over his new puppy or something. I felt so guilty, but then I bought an HP with more power, storage, screen space and features with a better warranty for a few hundred less and then I didn't feel so bad anymore.

Now I'm buying an X61 to replace my HP because it's too big and hot to prop up in the bed and surf or code. I might try Apple again some day, just not right now.

[Relevant]

I'm a stay-at-home Java developer, I'm 23 years old, and I have an X61t.

I love it, although the new x62t/x200/whatever piqued my interest with the redesigned keyboard. I'm always hitting the function key when going for control. The bigger backspace key would be awesome as well.

I actually use the X61t keyboard for development...the tactile feel and keyboard quality are really important to me.

I output to a 19" widescreen monitor when working, and I plug in a Logitech G5 for mousing as well. Its pretty much an unbeatable combo.

When I first received my X61t I was a little let down. The SXGA+ screen was almost too much real estate for my needs. Bumping up the DPI scale to 120% solved that. I was mostly unimpressed with the tablet integration, and to be honest I still am. I rarely use the stylus unless I'm working with images, or if I'm doing data input for a couple personal projects.

And of course, my Thinkpad would BSOD whenever switching to or from the battery. I disabled the DFS cache and now it works fine, except Explorer/taskbar will crash on battery occasionally. Other than that, everythings been pretty well thought out.

[mfbernstein]

I switched from a MacBook Pro to a Thinkpad X61. Even with Apple's newly announced MacBook Air, I'm happy I did so.

IMO, Apple's problem is going for 'wow' factor over useful features. The MacBook Air is the lightest 13.3" screen notebook out there, for example, but it uses a 1.8" HD, has no user-replaceable battery or RAM, has only 1 USB port, has no CardBus or ExpressCard and so on... Even the nice looking aluminum case is also a drawback - it scratches and deforms far easier than the 'bland' black plastic of the Thinkpad.

Apple makes good software and nice-looking computers. Lenovo makes solid, useful computers, and uses mediocre software. That's the distinction. It's a shame you can't get the best of both worlds, but there it is.

[goka]

I didn't like the fact that you couldn't cut and paste files in the OS, I mean this is (was) 2007 and you have to drag and drop files up or down levels of folders? Come on. Windows 3.11 could cut and paste files.

Just click on a file, option-C to copy and option-X to paste. Works great for me!

But the biggest issue I had with it was the availability of software. Unless you're going to use only the software that came with it, buy adobe products or figure out how to compile your own, there isn't a lot of software for Mac. Historically there really never was. I can't justify being held back by my hardware or software.

Just curious: what were you missing?

I've recently swtiched from using ThinkPads (since -99) in favour of MacBook Pro, and I've never been sorry for that. But then again, you always justify your choices, right?

I'm pretty sure that a collegue of mine, who's been using PCs since the dawn of mankind will trade in his Vaio for a MacBook Air first thing tomorrow. He wants the most portable laptop available with the possibility to run the oaccasional Windows program (at least Outlook until Office 2008 is available).

[qviri]

I'm pretty sure that a collegue of mine, who's been using PCs since the dawn of mankind will trade in his Vaio for a MacBook Thin first thing tomorrow. He wants the most portable laptop available with the possibility to run the oaccasional Windows program (at least Outlook until Office 2008 is available).

Except there's more to portability than thickness. Footprint and weight wise, the Air is nothing to be particularly impressed about.

[JonathanGennick]

Apple makes good software and nice-looking computers. Lenovo makes solid, useful computers, and uses mediocre software. That's the distinction. It's a shame you can't get the best of both worlds, but there it is.

Amen!

Apple will sell a few dozen boatloads though, of those MacBook Air models. And good on them for coming up with a design so thin.

And even for those of us who aren't smitten with Apple's design, that super-thin model of theirs will push the other vendors to thin out there own designs. I expect we'll see a renewed emphasis upon thinness in the marketplace.

p.s. I'd rather a 12-inch screen than a 13-inch screen. Sure the Macbook Air is thin, but I personally would like something less deep and less wide as well. We could argue the ideal screen size to death though.

[dfumento]

Apple makes good software and nice-looking computers. Lenovo makes solid, useful computers, and uses mediocre software. That's the distinction. It's a shame you can't get the best of both worlds, but there it is.

In this forum it tells you how to put OS-X on Thinkpads:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=32

[pxa270]

From what I've seen of the MacBook Air, I'd take an X61(s) any day. The thing is thin, but that's about it. It weights the same as the X61, and the width and height are the same as the regular MacBook. It compromises on tons of stuff to get its thinness. 1.8" hard disk (hello, X40), no LAN, no FW, no audio-in, only 1 (!) USB port, non-replacable 5h battery, non-upgradable RAM...
Heck, I'd take a regular MacBook over this thing and pocket the difference. This MacBook Air looks to me like the notebook version of the Mac Cube.

[mfbernstein]

Apple makes good software and nice-looking computers. Lenovo makes solid, useful computers, and uses mediocre software. That's the distinction. It's a shame you can't get the best of both worlds, but there it is.

In this forum it tells you how to put OS-X on Thinkpads:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewforum.php?f=32

And if you haven't noticed, I'm a not infrequent commenter there.

Using OS X on a ThinkPad is a fun exercise. But you rapidly discover that there are major limitations. For some uses, those may be acceptable. For many, they're not (e.g. for X61 dodgy power management, inability to use accelerated video and LCD at same time...).

[JabbaJabba]

From what I've seen of the MacBook Air, I'd take an X61(s) any day. The thing is thin, but that's about it. It weights the same as the X61, and the width and height are the same as the regular MacBook. It compromises on tons of stuff to get its thinness. 1.8" hard disk (hello, X40), no LAN, no FW, no audio-in, only 1 (!) USB port, non-replacable 5h battery, non-upgradable RAM...
Heck, I'd take a regular MacBook over this thing and pocket the difference. This MacBook Air looks to me like the notebook version of the Mac Cube.

I fully agree. It is very thin (like the Sony Vaio X505) and nicely designed (expect for the fat bezel), but it is simply too big and impractical for me to consider it.

Now if they made a version with a 10"-12" with a small bezel, I would probably get one. But probably just as a secondary notebook, to a ThinkPad.

[damascus]

The 8 cell battery will go 3 hours max under heavy load. Not worth the extra weight to me. Still waiting for the 24 hours laptop battery. Some day?

[Trekk69]

Why settle for 24hr, when hopefully 40hr is around the corner.... http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nf/57832

[3rods]

I didn't like the fact that you couldn't cut and paste files in the OS, I mean this is (was) 2007 and you have to drag and drop files up or down levels of folders? Come on. Windows 3.11 could cut and paste files.

Just click on a file, option-C to copy and option-X to paste. Works great for me!

But the biggest issue I had with it was the availability of software. Unless you're going to use only the software that came with it, buy adobe products or figure out how to compile your own, there isn't a lot of software for Mac. Historically there really never was. I can't justify being held back by my hardware or software.

Just curious: what were you missing?

You're actually talking about *copy* and paste - not *cut* and paste. Semantics? Not really. If I want to essentially move a file, but move it through folders, you can not do this without opening two folders side-by-side, navigating to each separate folder and use the "apple-tastic" drag-and-drop feature. Apple will not allow users to cut a file, they feel that Apple users are not competent enough to cut a file.


It wasn't so much that I couldn't find software for OSX as much as that I couldn't find software that was actually mature. The news reader software was not very feature rich (no where near newsbin for windows), stuff-it is a horrible, bloated piece of software (no comparison to winrar). Even the M$ Office applications are dated. 2004 version?! No M$ Access?! What's that all about?

I don't know. OSX, Windows, Linux - whatever. I guess it's all about your application. I'm becoming less and less of a fanboi for any OS though. I used to say Windows was the best, then Linux for a while. Now I don't gnash my teeth, scream profanity and want to physically harm OSX users nearly as much as I used to.

I say if you want a particular OS then go get it. I don't have to use it.

[cj3209]

Some people need/want larger LCD screens, especially for those doing video editing, PS work, and coding.

CJ

Could you be more specific?
For most people that do web surfing and Word and perhaps Excel, and watch movies, etc. the 'X' series works very well. Even using photoshop, etc. it works well.
If one is laptop for CAD, or programming they might need a larger screen.
As for me, I use my 'X' for programming as well and it works very well.
So, why would most people be choosing 'T' when 'X' would work just as well and be much smaller and more convenient? I think it is only because they are used to 'T' sized laptops with bulit-in optical drives.