Couple of questions regarding X61s build and performance.

[icantux]

Hello all,

To those that have an X61s could you tell me how the computer feels in terms of build quality? As I understand it, the body has a mag-alloy roll cage but the lid does not - correct? If that's the case, is that something to be concerned about - does opening and closing the lid produce any flex that can ultimately end up in cracked displays? Is it solid enough (the lid) that it could take a knock or two?

Now questions relating to performance:
I currently have a T42 (1.8Ghz with 1.5GB RAM with 64MB ATI 9600 Mobility) and very pleased with the screen (IPS Flexview 15"). However good the computer is, it's rather heavy to lug around and I end up mainly using the thing at home as a mobile desktop alternative. I use photoshop quite often (digital photo manipulation, some graphics but nothing serious - I'm not a graphic artist of any sort). But mostly I use it for research (incl lots of internet browsing and work via internet) typing up my reports - incl charts, use proprietary software for corp. system architecture/security testing, use linux or BSD for the system testing tasks as well on a regular basis.

Ok, ok, I do play silly games on the thing as well - like civ2 or others of the type ... sometimes hitman... but nothing beyond that. I'm not a big fan of 3D shoot-em-up-run-around-chasing/blasting-others internet games anycase, so...

I'm considering getting a newer system - something with a smaller screen. I'm stuck (torn) between a T61 (14.1 normal screen with nvs 140m graphics and T7700 2.4GHz processor) or the X61s (LV7700 1.8GHz).

I understand that the X61s is ultraportable and quite light yet powerful (the 1.8GHz LV7700 processor would be my choice), but would it be sufficient for the type of application as mentioned? Would it be powerful enough as a substitute for my T42 in terms of photo manipulation, complex charting (flowcharting, etc) or perhaps even presentations (powerpoint etc.)? I'm a bit worried about reports of the laptop (x61s) getting hot in the palmrest - I'm not planning on getting WWAN so it seems that an extra fan in that part of the case is out of the question - Lenovo won't install a fan there if you don't order the WWAN (that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard, but I digress...)

Thanks for the attention and your suggestions. I'd really appreciate comments particularly from those that have used the t42's and have gone up to the X61s or who have (or tried) the T61 and how that compares to the X61s.

Cheers to all

[EOMtp]

Taking into consideration all that you mention, you will have no disappointments whatsoever with the X61s iff you pick one with the Ultralight LCD. The question which only you can answer is whether or not you can stay satisfied longer term with the 1024x768 display of the X61s.

As you know, the 14.1" T61 is a totally different beast compared to the X61s. For me, anything larger/heavier than an X60/s is not sufficiently portable. Consequently, the decision for you as well may be based on how much you value "perfectly portable" vs. "almost good enough, but I wish it were smaller/lighter!".

All X6x/s units are rigid and sturdy. The concerns with the T4x series of flexing damaging motherboards no longer exist with the T6x/X6x series. The CPU on the 1.8MHz X61s will outperform the CPU on your 1.8MHz T42. If your T42 has an ATI graphics chip, then it may "outperform" the X61s on video benchmarks, but I bet you would never know it outside of benchmarks or video-power-hungry games.

[cj3209]

Why not take a look at an X61 instead of the 's' version? It has the faster processor and the LCD is bright enough; with the 12" LCD, I never saw the need for more resolution.

Even better, wait for the X300 which has an 13.3" LCD and built-in drive.


CJ

[Flashman]

Over the years I've gone back and forth from subnotebook Thinkpads and regular Thinkpads. The resolution vs. size tradeoff is the most common issue (working for a company that lets me upgrade every two years let's me change my mind often).

I just went from a T42 to a X61s. I don't really mind the lower resolution, except occassionally when reading the New York Times (I read the pdf-style version from newsstand.com). The build quality is excellent as always, probably the best packaged Thinkpad yet (though every single Thinkpad seems to be an improvement on the previous one).

There is no flex, and it feels as solid as a 2001 Monolith. The keyboard is EXCELLENT and superior to the T42. The dock combo is cool, but can make typing ackward while on the dock (since it raises the laptop another inch).

I also have ordered a regular X61 for personal use (can't really use the work one for personal use these days of corporate 'lock down'). So I will soon be able to compare them both. The X61 I ordered is one I am more likely to play games on and such, so I did not order the 's' version for that reason. I did order it with AT&T cellular, since I am more likely to use it at social hangouts (Panera, Starbucks, in cars, etc.).

Battery wise... the extended battery on the X61s lasts a tad less than the extended battery on the T42 (with CD-ROM bay battery). About 8 hours for the X61s vs. the 10 hours the T42 could operate.

But I really prefer the smaller size. I had only gone to the T42 a while back seeking faster CPU than the subnotebook of the time. Now that the X61s CPU is super fast, I can return to a smaller notebook.

[pianowizard]

I'm stuck (torn) between a T61 (14.1 normal screen with nvs 140m graphics and T7700 2.4GHz processor) or the X61s (LV7700 1.8GHz)...I understand that the X61s is ultraportable and quite light yet powerful (the 1.8GHz LV7700 processor would be my choice), but would it be sufficient for the type of application as mentioned? Would it be powerful enough as a substitute for my T42 in terms of photo manipulation, complex charting (flowcharting, etc) or perhaps even presentations (powerpoint etc.)?

The 14.1" T61's 1400x1050 resolution is probably much better than the X61s's 1024x768 for these applications. You may want to consider getting a 14.1" T61 with 6-cell battery and optical drive replaced with a travel bezel, which would weigh around 4.8 lb, about 1 lb lighter than your 15.0" T42. I haven't done "complex charting" but I do work on photos and Powerpoint all the time, and have found that having only 1024x768 makes the experience highly unpleasant.

I love ultraportable laptops but avoid the ones with 1024x768 like the plague. As far as I know, Lenovo and Panasonic are the only manufacturers that still make such laptops. Everyone else offers at least 1280x768.

[icantux]

Hmmm

Thanks for all the responses thus far. Very insightful! The "complex charting" I do is basically flowcharting in 2/3d - (proprietary stuff that allows for viewing complex idea/unit relationships in more comprehensible fashion (security, corporate structure, gov't program initiatives, etc)... following a full analysis of such relationships, of course.) Time consuming takes a lot of research....

I can see how the low resolution on the X61s can become a potential and longer term drawback and disappointment. Gah... Why oh why couldn't Lenovo at least come up with 1280x1024 resolution on that screen? Not asking for the SXGA(uber)+ 1400.... just a 1280x1024 would suffice. What the heck were these guys thinking about?

Oh well, I don't work for em, so I can't quit the company for that. LOL!


The positive aspects make selecting the laptop a very tantalizing choice indeed. The size (super portability, discrete), weight, battery life. The resolution, on the other hand...

Pianowizard may have a point about stripping some hardware out of the T61. Heck perhaps if it's warranted, then perhaps just go for the X3100 SXGA version of the laptop to further extend battery life.


I'll really have to think about this.

[pianowizard]

icantux, I was going to edit my last post but since you've already replied, I decided to start a new post.

1024x768 is a serious limitation for me and many others but it's possible that you can live with it. I recommend lowering your 15.0" T42's resolution to 1024x768 and do everything on that screen for several days to see how the reduced working area affects your work. If you can tolerate it, then get the X61s. If not, get the 14.1" SXGA+ T61, or wait for the X300 (3.13 lb with integrated DVD burner and 13.3" 1440x900 screen) that's coming out in a few weeks.

[hart22]

For a long time I also hoped that Lenovo would offer the 1280 x 1024 screen resolution as an intermediate between the high res but small text size screen and the low res low real estate screen. However I came across a LCD review site that pointed out that the 1280 x 1024 resolution uses the unique 4:5 aspect ratio, which is different from the 3:4 aspect ratio used in all other standard (non-widescreen) aspect ratio resolutions. So unfortunately don't be expecting 1280 x 1024 on an X-series anytime soon...

[SHoTTa35]

i would definitely get the SXGA+ T61. If you are used to UXGA then SXGA+ on a 14" is the perfect blend of power and portability. The 1440 x 900 i still find too low for my needs but that x300 certainly looks nice


And yeah, no SXGA screens will be on laptops but i guess if you really wanted to you can get the X61 XGA and then get a nice LCD for your serious work.

[icantux]

1024x768 is a serious limitation for me and many others but it's possible that you can live with it. I recommend lowering your 15.0" T42's resolution to 1024x768 and do everything on that screen for several days to see how the reduced working area affects your work. If you can tolerate it, then get the X61s. If not, get the 14.1" SXGA+ T61, or wait for the X300 (3.13 lb with integrated DVD burner and 13.3" 1440x900 screen) that's coming out in a few weeks.

Wise words, thanks pianowiz. ...

At this point I'm seriously reconsidering the choice of an X61s and leaning more towards the T61 (although the lockups, BSOD and freezing issues associated with those systems have me very worried about the quality of components used in the T61's - motherboard in particular).

The XGA res wouldn't offer full benefit for the things I do and would ultimately cause frustration at the lack of having more info on the screen involving constant scrolling (vertical and horizontal).

hart22, thanks for the insight - never quite realized the differences in aspect ratio regarding the two screen resolutions.

Many thanks

[Flashman]

1024x768 is a serious limitation for me and many others but it's possible that you can live with it. I recommend lowering your 15.0" T42's resolution to 1024x768 and do everything on that screen for several days to see how the reduced working area affects your work. If you can tolerate it, then get the X61s. If not, get the 14.1" SXGA+ T61, or wait for the X300 (3.13 lb with integrated DVD burner and 13.3" 1440x900 screen) that's coming out in a few weeks.

I politely disagree. As a pretty hardcore PC user I find the 1024x768 adequate for all my portable needs (outlook, web browsing, etc.). When I am home or work I simply plug into a larger desktop screen for more complex work (photoshop, etc.). I really don't have any interest in widescreen laptops, all they do is increase the footprint from letter sized to legal size without any major benefit in vertical resolution (where it matters more to me).

This is very much a personal taste, but the X61 screen is very sharp, clear, and rather pleasant.

[pianowizard]

1024x768 is a serious limitation for me and many others

I politely disagree.

There is nothing to disagree. All I stated was that 1024x768 is too low for me and many others. That's a simple fact; as an analogy, you can't disagree that my username is "pianowizard". Had I said "1024x768 is too low for all users", then that would be something to disagree with.

I understand that everyone's requirements are different and that's why I recommended the OP to find out for himself whether he'd like XGA. Incidentally, I happen to be working on a Powerpoint at the moment. The slide preview strip on the left and the custom animation menu on the right take up lots of space. On an XGA screen, there's simply not enough working area for active slide itself. But again, that's just because I make fairly complicated Powerpoints. People who make simpler slides would be less affected.

[Flashman]

There is nothing to disagree. All I stated was that 1024x768 is too low for me and many others. That's a simple fact; as an analogy, you can't disagree that my username is "pianowizard". Had I said "1024x768 is too low for all users", then that would be something to disagree with.

Agreed

[edinburghphoto]

I politely disagree. As a pretty hardcore PC user I find the 1024x768 adequate for all my portable needs (outlook, web browsing, etc.). ..

Agreed, but I guess this is a little subjective. I had a widescreen Samsung Q35 with my last job. I found it difficult to work comfortably for long periods because everything was scaled down using the native resolution. When I left that job to work freelance I handed back the Samsung and purchased a secondhand X31. The X has been a fantastic workhorse. I can work on this machine all day without eye-strain. You'll never get a lot on the screen on any truly portable notebook. If I compare the fonts on my X31 with a typical book or newspaper, they're similar in size and this makes the XGA resolution ideal for me. I'm a developer and really appreciate the huge widescreen monitor on my desk. There's absolutely no way you can get two documents (or code windows) side by side on a widescreen ultraportable and work comfortably with good posture. I really think 12.1" XGA is the best compromise for a serious ultra-portable. If you need to use your portable on cramped commuter trains, as I do, the 12.1" is perfect. I can open the laptop fully and work normally. The new steam-rollered 13.3" e.g. Apple MacBook Air may have a more useful screen area, but you'll struggle to fit this on a Scotrail tray table.

[icantux]

Hmm... well I've tried running my comp at 1024x768 and everything on it looks rather "bulkish" - I dunno if I could get used to that, especially viewing some of these malformed webpages with all the blasted adds and the like - really compresses the useful text to a tiny area on the screen.

Are there any photos of a x61(s) next to a 14" T42/3/60/61 that have the same thing on the screen for comparison? Like viewing the thinkpads.com forums or some other open application? Would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison.

[EOMtp]

Are there any photos of a x61(s) next to a 14" T42/3/60/61 that have the same thing on the screen for comparison?

If you wish to see the "virtual real estate" that XGA (1024x768) offers compared to SXGA+ (1400x1050), then look at the following chart. It shows the "window" size through which the target page is viewed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vect ... dards2.svg

[icantux]

Thanks for the link - very interesting indeed, but rather difficult to conceptualize.

[EOMtp]

... difficult to conceptualize.

I understand. Think of the picture this way: Imagine the entire white background of the picture below to be a "newspaper sheet" ... for each shown resolution, the lower right rectangle corner designates how much of that "newspaper sheet" will be visible on the screen at that particular resolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vect ... dards2.svg

[hart22]

You could try this:

Capture a screenshot of your normal resolution desktop running a full-screen browser with ThinkPad forums or any site open by hitting PrintScreen and pasting into a photo editor such as Photoshop. Then switch to 1024 x 768 and do the same thing. You'll have 2 jpegs with the exact screen real estate of the respective machines you're comparing. Then open up a browser in your normal resolution, go into full screen mode (F11), and open the 2 images and go back and forth to compare.

[chocorem]

is my difficult quest to choose between XGA or SXGA+ for my new X61t, I've found this

T vs X
img]http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7434/1963qh0.th.jpg[/img]

X XGA vs X SXGA+
img]http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8171/1917kk5.th.jpg[/img]

[bill bolton]

1024x768 is a serious limitation for me and many others

And it's not for "me and many others" (whatever that is really supposed to mean).

You need to get over that!

[pianowizard]

And it's not for "me and many others"

Yeah, I understood that, and that's why right after that I wrote "...but it's possible that you can live with it" and suggested the OP to try using XGA to find out for himself whether it's a limitation. If you look around this forum you'll see that many people find XGA a serious limitation. That's what "many others" means. It's a simple, objective, factual statement, as factual as the statement "Most members on this forum own one or more Thinkpads". I didn't and would never say "Every computer user in the whole world finds XGA a serious limitation", or "Because I don't like it, you must not like it either". Please don't over-interpret.

[bill bolton]

It's a simple, objective, factual statement

In fact it's a simplistic, subjective, opinionated statement.

A simple, objective, factual statement would be something like "1024x768 is a serious limitation for myself and like-minded users" or similar.

[richarddd]

Guys, it's fine for many and not fine for many.

[icantux]

Well I just saw my first x thinkpad - a colleague got a X61 for work - he's a cable tech with the local phone company.

I must say that the computer is much much different to see and feel in person than just reading about it or hearing of it from others.

First - this thing is tiny! ... and it's light!! wowie! It almost looks unnatural to have a full size keyboard on such a small unit. Space age, almost star-trek-y.

The screen, although not the brightest I've seen, is bright enough and saturated enough to view the contents very well! The viewing angles are not that great, say standing or sitting next to my colleague while he was typing away did not allow me to see much of the content on the screen - that's a positive aspect in my view, since one would like to keep the contents on the screen more private in an open environment like on a plane or train.

The computer is very quick and extremely responsive with no apparent lag (he was running XP). He had some proprietary software running analyzing the phone network and the program was running very swiftly.

I don't want to make this post into a review, there are enough of these around, but simply wished to add my views regarding this little beast.

Unfortunately for me, however, this is when I realized that the screen may be just a bit too small for my needs. Again, even though the display is sufficiently bright (x61) for any day-to-day work, the resolution would be a drawback for my needs. It's very sad to say this - first because I can get a very good deal on an x61 and second because I simply love the form factor and weight (or lack thereof).

Just a few thoughts.

[pianowizard]

the resolution would be a drawback for my needs.

To use the phrase Bill Bolton suggested, you and I are "like-minded users"!

It's very sad to say this - first because I can get a very good deal on an x61 and second because I simply love the form factor and weight (or lack thereof).

Sounds like you might prefer the X300 that's coming out next week. If that's too expensive, there are many 12.1" non-Thinkpad laptops to choose from that are as light and small as the X61 but have 1280x800 resolution, which is 30% higher than the X61's 1024x768. Many of them are quite affordable, e.g. the HP nc2400 (which I own and love) can be had for around $600 on eBay. It weighs 3.16 lbs with 12.1" 1280x800 and an integrated optical drive. The build quality is as good as any of the Thinkpads I've used.

[gunston]

what do you guys think if its quality compare to the old X4x series Laptop?

[atrix415]

what do you guys think if its quality compare to the old X4x series Laptop?

The newer the better.