"downgrade" completed now I have xp tablet 2005 bu

[brixvold]

I successfully used this tool
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=20089
to make a usb flash drive bootable and used it to boot an nlited windows xp tablet 2005 with all the x61t drivers. (http://www.nliteos.com/)

For some reason the keyboard is not responding beyond the initial boot sequence, that is, whenever windows begins to load, keyboard is inoperable.

Anybody have a clue?

[thormdac]

..i assume its a driver problem!

is the nlited tablet version your own product? - if not, many versions "flying around" are faulty

[brixvold]

hi!

I concur on the driver aspect, but I didn't think the thinkpads needed a special keyboard driver?
Could it be the keyboard layout that I choose maybe?

I did the nliting myself with a fresh windows xp tablet 2005, - that is plain from the cdrom. I added sp3 and x61t drivers and deleted non essential items like games, paint etc.
The digitizer and sound works flawlessly.

Problem is I'm not even able to get into windows as I can't fill in the password.

I assume I'll have to do another version, problem is I don't know what to add or change.

[thormdac]

jo there,

dont know my way around with the tablet version in detail, but the way it always worked for me in plain xp versions is / was:

1. download all current drivers from update page manually
2. unpack them , so you have the installer in the folder
3. integrate these drivers via nlite, when first feedback is shown select "all", after that select all "textmode drivers" manually!!!!
4. proceed as usual, checking on the "unattended" page to collect the correct "regional settings"

on this, make sure you are starting off from a fresh!!!! !!! i386 folder! !
greetz

[brixvold]

thormdac thanks for your reply

That is exactly what I did.

#deleted, was I delirious when I wrote this?#

On a brighter note the USB_MultiBoot tool can be really be recommended, it is by far the fastest windows install I have ever experienced bar imaged install off course.

[brixvold]

I'm learning obviously, there seems to be no way to disable ps2 keyboards. hehe

I had to do another install with no admin password, then after logging in windows would find and install the driver for an usb keyboard.

[tyanlion]

just out of curosity why did u downgrade?

[ronan_zj]

just out of curosity why did u downgrade?

xp is much faster than vista.

[brixvold]

pen input lagged so much I had to do it..

[proaudioguy]

Don't you find the tablet input panel to be a bit quirky? I would love to use Win XP if I could get the tablet functionality of Vista. That would solve so many other problems.

I can't even get drivers for my audio I/Os for Vista. What a pain. The on board audio on the X60 tablet is noisy and the noise is intermittent. I imagine it's a grounding scheme related issue. The old Dell's were plagued with these issues. By contrast my X32 has one of the cleanest audio outputs I've dealt with. The left and right are perfectly matched. The line inputs are perfectly matched. I couldn't say that about the A31. The inputs were off by a small amount which caused a phase and magnitude aberration in the low frequency. I realized it was part of the design when I found the same thing on 3 A31s. Anyway, vista sucks, but the tablet portion is great, but slow.

[brixvold]

Hey proadioguy,

Yes tablet functionality in xp is kind of retarded. No options for learning ones writing style and my native language isn't even available.

This has led me to begin preparations for installing vista32 again, sigh. Hopefully I'll have some luck with slimming it down so the speed isn't as bad as before. I know Nlite is available in a Vlite flavour now.

It's the same old story with drivers for specialized hardware, they do so seldom update their drivers to vista because who in their right mind would want to run vista professionally? - well all us peope who think tablets are a hit that's who.

How come there are no optional applications that does what vista tablet input does? I would really like that.

X61 audio seems fine though it's output is Waaaayyy stronger than my old t42.

[GpsPasSion]

A bit of a bump, sorry! Did you go back to Vista? I'm looking at getting a used X61T and it comes with Windows Vista Business. Have the issues been resolved now or does it sill make sense to downgrade to XP?

[brixvold]

I went with Ubuntu 10.10 instead.

I blows past XP

I installed it within 20 minutes from a flashstick
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal- ... -as-1-2-3/
Darn easy especially compared with the hassle of making XP install with a flashstick.
And all the hardware just installed itself like it should, no hunting for obscure drivers etc.

My life with computers took a dramatic step towards bliss with this move.
Admittedly I'm without the Adobe package, my 3d software of choice doesn't run either.
I've adjusted how I do my work and only go to my stationary machine (XP) for heavy photo editing and 3d work.
But everything else is just such a delight, my machine works flawlessly and if everything crops up, the ubuntu forums always have an answer.

This has transformed my little machine from a somewhat moody and sluggish child to a reliable and lightning fast workhorse.
Standby, hibernation woks like a charm and is blindingly fast, boot up is in mere seconds.

I don't have any real tablet functionality, but my tablet works and I can doodle notes in Xournal, but I'll survive.

I will never go back...

If anything I'd rather try the hackintosh approach. But so far I've lived with this setup for 4 months.

I mostly do writing, and programming on the X61T with light photo editing with the Gimp.

To answer your question about Vista: don't bother, go for windows 7 if you need the tablet stuff. It is slow beyond belief but tablet functionality is tops.
But really who cares if it turns your machine into a slug?

[GpsPasSion]

Thanks, I have too many apps that wouldn't run on Linux and I'm so familiar with Windows...Are you saying Windows 7 is better or worse for speed on the tablet?

[brixvold]

drill down of OS speed:

Fastest: Ubuntu
Somewhat fast: XP
Sluggish (and buggy): Vista
Really slow: Windows 7

The thing with Windows 7 is that it is what Vista should have been, the bugs are ironed out it seems and everything works pretty good.
Booting and other OS tasks are just really not very fast. Oh and the occasional bug do crop up once in a while, like resume can freeze the machine.
Tablet functionality in 7 is TOPS! though, it is really neat and it can actually learn your handwriting style pretty well.
NTFS is just so lame, but you wont know until you've tried EXT4

So yes if you need handwriting recognition to really work go for Windows 7, if you care more for not waiting for your machine to do mundane tasks go for XP.

If I couldn't live without Windows I would use XP.

In the meantime I can always hope that the ipad will let Apple develop as good tools as the Windows 7 tablet tools just for OSX, so you wont be bogged down by a malfunctioning piece of OS. :b

[GpsPasSion]

Thanks that's very helpful. Don't plan on using it much for handwriting recognition so might try to go with XP (looks like a bit of a headache!) if Vista is too slow. Maybe they improved Vista over its (short) lifetime though.

[brixvold]

Alright,actually XP isn't that difficult to get up, especially if you forego the tablet functions.
This has proven the easiest way of installing: http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=20089
Short of plugging in a usb cdrom drive.

Good luck

[pkiff]

brixvold, I can't tell if you are joking or not when you refer to what has "proven the easiest way of installing" XP with Tablet functions. And I might have missed something in this thread about whether folks here have a CD drive.

By far the easiest way to install Windows XP 2005 Tablet edition on your X60T/X61T machine is to use the Windows XP Tablet recovery media that Lenovo created for those machines. You will end up with a bit of extra cruft, instead of a clean install, but it is as simple as can be to install onto a clean/empty drive. And, a default install will create a functional recovery partition for you as well, if you like that kind of thing. I'm not sure about the X61T disk, but the disk for the X60T that I used came with Windows XP Tablet Edition 2005 including SP3. Then you just run your Windows and Lenovo updates to catch everything up.

There may be various reasons why one doesn't want to use standard-issue Lenovo recovery disks. But if simplicity is what you're after, then that's the way to go. No boot disk. No GRUB. No fiddling with any settings. It's all pretty much automatic. You just follow the prompts.

Phil.

[GpsPasSion]

That sounds easier indeed but I think I read that Lenovo were not making these disks availble or has that changed?

Is it possible to backup the existing Vista recovery partition? I think I had done that with Acronis at one point on my X31 but then couldn't restore it when I upgraded my HD.

[pkiff]

That sounds easier indeed but I think I read that Lenovo were not making these disks availble or has that changed?

I don't actually know if Lenovo is still supplying these, but they are definitely still available from a variety of other sources. I got mine directly from Lenovo Canada about a year ago, on request after contacting them directly. The disks cost me about $50 CAD including shipping, which at the time equated to about $42 USD.

Is it possible to backup the existing Vista recovery partition? I think I had done that with Acronis at one point on my X31 but then couldn't restore it when I upgraded my HD.

I've heard that can be a challenge, but I think you just need to make sure you use the correct (probably the latest) version of Acronis. I ended up pulling out my entire Vista Business drive and keeping it as a backup rather than trying to clone it/copy it using Acronis or some other software. So the new drive set me back another $80 USD or something too, but I like to have extra drives around...

I'm not really the best resource for info about recovery partitions because I usually end up getting rid of them entirely and have never actually had to put one to use.

Phil.

[GpsPasSion]

Thanks, will try looking up the discs on the Lenovo Canada site.

Probably a good idea to keep the original drive as is, especially if it's a 5400rpm? Have a 7200rpm on my x31 so it would probably be hard to go back. Might look into an SSD drive while I'm at it. I thought 64Gb was the max size but apparently the MacBook has 250Gb, will need to investigate!

[brixvold]

brixvold, I can't tell if you are joking or not when you refer to what has "proven the easiest way of installing" XP with Tablet functions. And I might have missed something in this thread about whether folks here have a CD drive.

I'm not joking.

X61t are afaik never supplied with XP, but with Vista.
Hence you need to get a copy of XP.

I would never recommend the factory image as it is loaded down with bloatware, and my notions about the fastest OS would be invalidated if one was to use the factory image. A genuine copy of XP with SP3 shouldn't cost the world.

Plain XP without tablet mode and with the required drivers either integrated through nlite or done manually later on is the best option in my opinion.
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=20089 or a usb cdrom is quite easy to do.

There are lots of other options out there for installing XP through flashsticks but none are as easy as the link above.

[tombaker]

I would never recommend the factory image as it is loaded down with bloatware, and my notions about the fastest OS would be invalidated if one was to use the factory image..

I have seen comments like this before that a factory install with some options won't be as good as a clean install, but unless I see anything beyond superstition and following practices from Win98 and W2K days.....I think the factory image reload will be equally fast.

After the Lenovo recovery is run, its then a quick matter of uninstalling anything you don't like. I don't see the Lenovo being anywhere as bloated as the as something for a consumer HP or the like.

Once you remove any software you don't want, I would suggest you use a better defrag like Auslogics freeware (see CNET) which will clean everything up, and move the system files to outer edge of the disk platter where you will get your best transfers.

After that for XP you are gonna want to run TuneXP 1.5 and then see how many processes you can turn off which depending on your applications you won't be needing.

Then use http://tweakhound.com/xp/xptweaks/supertweaks1.htm to eliminate lots of needless processes. These guys also say they would ideally do a clean install. However removing the bloating programs, defraging, cutting processes out...will end up the same.

Long story short if the same care is used with an image reinstall, and processes eliminated....it will equal a clean install.

FWIW on a non Tablet, given that graphics card is still supported....Win 7 is crisper and more responsive than an XP machine. Turn off Aero of course.

[brixvold]

I have seen comments like this before that a factory install with some options won't be as good as a clean install, but unless I see anything beyond superstition and following practices from Win98 and W2K days.....I think the factory image reload will be equally fast.

This is my personal experience and although I never measured the speed difference with a clock, it was more than noticeable.
I would like that you refrain from calling my posts superstition, it is uncalled for.

After the Lenovo recovery is run, its then a quick matter of uninstalling anything you don't like. I don't see the Lenovo being anywhere as bloated as the as something for a consumer HP or the like.

Even if you are making comparisons to other admittedly worse collections of bloatware, it doesn't make Lenovo's any better. It still bogs your machine down with irrelevant processes.

The quick matter of uninstalling applications will never yield the same result as if you never installed them in the first place. Little dll's and what not will be left behind. Uninstalling all that crap will take you more than ½ an hour, unless you're on a SSD.

I'm not even going to comment on your detailed process of how to fix the system as good as a clean install.

[pkiff]

Thanks, will try looking up the discs on the Lenovo Canada site.

Are you in Canada? You don't seem to have a location entered in your profile. Just to be clear, you should contact Lenovo in whatever country you are in. I don't think the disks are available through the Lenovo website or store, but they may still be available as a support request to "downgrade" your Vista Business license (or whatever Vista you have) down to XP. I believe this was an explicit option that was available by special request for both the X60T and the X61T.

Phil.

[GpsPasSion]

Ah ok, actually I'm in the US, will try to fix my profile. Too bad you can't order online, looks like it's going to be a hassle, especially since I'm pretty sure I read here that someone called the US support at one point and was told that due to a licensing issue Lenovo couldn't send XP recovery discs to x61t owners...maybe it changed after that.

[tombaker]

I'm not even going to comment on your detailed process of how to fix the system as good as a clean install.

brizvold, I did not call your postings superstition, if that is what you took away, I am sorry for the confusion caused.

That said, you are missing the point of what I was saying. I just did a fresh install from the recovery disks of business Vista to a X61. There is actually no bloatware on the factory re-set, with the single exception of a Norton Security offering. I hate Norton.

It does install a working version of Diskkeeper, very worthwhile, and Intervideo Virtual Drive, again very worthwhile, PC-Doctor 5 which is outmoded by the newer updates to Thinkvantage and lastly it does install Picassa2, again worthwhile. Beyond those, everything else is Thinkpad utilites, Tablet features, and VISTA. Lenovo is not bundling software that does not properly uninstall itself also.

So it is simply false that the restore disks for the X61 are bloated with useless programs.

Most importantly, a clean install with just the XP raw CD will still start a ton of processes that are not needed. Many of these processes are what are needed for a corporate computer, but can be totally removed for a home user.

If you do a clean install but skip the steps of Tweakhound, TuneXP and Auslogic Defrag, does not matter what you do, with the install, you are going to have a slower computer.

So again, using the restore disks for XP on the Tablet, is a fine option, but to get the best performance no matter what the install you need to do more work. This is you want the fastest possible system with the given hardware.

Lastly on a X61, Windows 7 is going to be the faster of Vista or XP, plenty of reviews of any system with the X61s strength of hardware, have shown this. Heck, I had a 512MB R51 running 7, and it was crisper than XP. Only issues with Windows 7 have been compatablitly on the Tablets, and since I am about to replace this Vista with 7, I will know for sure soon....but everything I have seen says the early adopters have worked out all the kinks.....so going Win7 64bit to get the full 4GB on the X61 is a no brainer.

[GpsPasSion]

Ah so Windows 7 might be preferable to XP then? How do you find your X61 tablet with a clean restore of Vista Business?

[brixvold]

brizvold, I did not call your postings superstition, if that is what you took away, I am sorry for the confusion caused.

You're alleging that my posting is superstition, look at your post again.

Bloatware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloatware
"is a term used to describe the tendency of newer computer programs to have a larger installation footprint, or have many unnecessary features that are not used by end users, or just generally use more system resources than necessary, while offering little or no benefit to its users."

Now that we know what the definition of bloatware is, look at the various apps that comes preinstalled even on a Lenovo computer.

That said, you are missing the point of what I was saying. I just did a fresh install from the recovery disks of business Vista to a X61. There is actually no bloatware on the factory re-set, with the single exception of a Norton Security offering. I hate Norton.

This is not the definition of bloatware, - an application that you hate.

It does install a working version of Diskkeeper, very worthwhile, and Intervideo Virtual Drive, again very worthwhile, PC-Doctor 5 which is outmoded by the newer updates to Thinkvantage and lastly it does install Picassa2, again worthwhile. Beyond those, everything else is Thinkpad utilites, Tablet features, and VISTA. Lenovo is not bundling software that does not properly uninstall itself also.

Those thinkpad utilities, a lot of them are not in the least needed, and their footprint is way over the top, both disk wise and resource wise.

So it is simply false that the restore disks for the X61 are bloated with useless programs.

In your opinion yes, in mine no.

Most importantly, a clean install with just the XP raw CD will still start a ton of processes that are not needed. Many of these processes are what are needed for a corporate computer, but can be totally removed for a home user.

I differentiate between a plain XP, that is one not loaded with Lenovos stuff, and a Lenovo image.

A plain XP will not introduce extra processes.

If you do a clean install but skip the steps of Tweakhound, TuneXP and Auslogic Defrag, does not matter what you do, with the install, you are going to have a slower computer.

So again, using the restore disks for XP on the Tablet, is a fine option, but to get the best performance no matter what the install you need to do more work. This is you want the fastest possible system with the given hardware.

Your version is to do the "tuning" after install, mine is to do it before, I still fail to see the benefit of doing it afterwards.

Lastly on a X61, Windows 7 is going to be the faster of Vista or XP, plenty of reviews of any system with the X61s strength of hardware, have shown this. Heck, I had a 512MB R51 running 7, and it was crisper than XP. Only issues with Windows 7 have been compatablitly on the Tablets, and since I am about to replace this Vista with 7, I will know for sure soon....but everything I have seen says the early adopters have worked out all the kinks.....so going Win7 64bit to get the full 4GB on the X61 is a no brainer.

I have actually tried this myself, and Windows 7 is not faster by any stretch of the imagination.
you can quote all the reviews you want I have still experienced quite the opposite of your fabrications.

And just so you know, 64 bit is not gonna be substantially faster on a 4GB machine.
If you did finite elements analysis or other intense manipulation of large datasets then you would benefit, but only if you installed way more RAM.

Why am I even bothering replying?

[pkiff]

[Moderator's Note:]
Hey, brixvold and tombaker. No need to take offence where it is unintended, or to be dismissive. Please keep it friendly in here.