X61T 1394a Port - Need Options 4 Managing 2 1394 Ext HDs

[Alltweed]

Found nothing searching on X61T Firewire or 1394...

I am trying to find out what options are available to manage 2 1394 external Hard Drives, but I only have one 1394 port in my X61T. In addition to the obvious - backing up data from X61T to either HD vice versa, I need to use the X61t as a central station to transfer files between one ext drive and the other.

Thinking if both Ext drives are 1394a(x61t does not support b) and connected to my x61t 1394, I can benefit all the way around for the 1394 performance gains.

1) Is this true - can I realize perf gains under this scenario?
2) Whats the best option for a mulit port 1394a device for my one 1394a port X61T if any?

[basketb]

I never had more than one external 1394 device but I thought one can daisy-chain firewire devices (up to a certain cable length/number of devices). Don't have any experiences with this, but maybe a google search turns something up.

[hausman]

You can run multiple FireWire devices through a hub just as you can USB. I've never done it so I've never explored the performance, power, etc. implications. You could also use a PCMCIA card like this.

[Alltweed]

Ok - thx

I thought so...

To anyone else familiar with 1394 performance, I wonder whats faster the internal 1394 port or an express card for the X61T express slot which connects directly to the bus...This would help me decide whether to buy an express card or a 1394 hub connected to 1394 port.

[loyukfai]

AFAIK the ExpressCard slot on the X6x-series only support adapters using the USB connection. It isn't connected to the PCIe bus.

[Alltweed]

AFAIK the ExpressCard slot on the X6x-series only support adapters using the USB connection. It isn't connected to the PCIe bus.

Oh really...I know I had to make adjustments when I purchased my WWAN express card by using an adapter housing.

Thats a pretty serious issue. I have not read from any if the card sellers conflicts with supporting 1394. Thats only to say they likely don't know. I wonder how prevelant this issue is? Is it something about the X61t or would this be true for the T60 as well if you know...

I am also going to throw this out to the 1394 card sellers. WTF...

[loyukfai]

According to ThinkWiki, the T60 has a CardBus slot and an ExpressCard/54 slot. While the T61 has a CardBus slot and one additional slot which can be either a 1) SmartCard reader, an 2) ExpressCard/54 slot or 3) a Media Card reader.

See http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 31&start=0 for a related previous discussion.

[Alltweed]

My Bad...

In reviewing the specs for T60 again, I realized that I did not also review the Expansion paragraph only the PC card paragraph...I then incorrectly assumed they both had same expansion and was miffed as to why everyone was saying the X61T does not have expresscard.

So now it makes sense that if I pair an express card with an expresscard/34 adaptor its only going to treat it as a USB device or non 1394 express device said better I think. The USB thing still has me perplexed.

At any rate, I decided to go with a 1394 pcmcia card(32 bit type II) which I am told has equal to or great perf as the built in 1394 port in my x61T...

So, if its just a matter of inserting a pcmcia cardbus Mite as well go with an 800 1394B...So far, no one has said the x61T will not benefit from a 1394B(800) pcmcia type II card.

Last chance ...

[bananaman]

Yes basketb is correct, you can daisy-chain firewire devices, so you only need one firewire port, and don't need a hub. I've done this many times.

I never had more than one external 1394 device but I thought one can daisy-chain firewire devices (up to a certain cable length/number of devices). Don't have any experiences with this, but maybe a google search turns something up.

[loyukfai]

I happened to have a IEEE 1394 PC Card adapter. See if the below information is useful to you...

Via a TI OHCI IEEE 1394 adapter in the CardBus slot...

Code: Select all

--------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 2.2 (C) 2007-2008 hiyohiyo
      Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
--------------------------------------------------

   Sequential Read :   42.200 MB/s
  Sequential Write :   12.003 MB/s
 Random Read 512KB :   29.406 MB/s
Random Write 512KB :   11.837 MB/s
   Random Read 4KB :    0.677 MB/s
  Random Write 4KB :    0.582 MB/s

         Test Size : 50 MB
              Date : 2009/02/10 22:51:24

Via the onboard IEEE 1394 port...

Code: Select all

--------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 2.2 (C) 2007-2008 hiyohiyo
      Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
--------------------------------------------------

   Sequential Read :   41.756 MB/s
  Sequential Write :   12.003 MB/s
 Random Read 512KB :   29.247 MB/s
Random Write 512KB :   11.894 MB/s
   Random Read 4KB :    0.682 MB/s
  Random Write 4KB :    0.565 MB/s

         Test Size : 50 MB
              Date : 2009/02/10 22:56:48

The tested drive was a Seagate 3.5" 7200RPM drive behind an Oxford 911 controller. More information about it at http://byfai.com/node/40

[Alltweed]

Great! Thx..

This confirms that a 32 bit cardbus 1394 card will achieve at least equal to perf of internal 1394 port. Now if we can double that with 1394b card using 1394b drives very cool cause I can use any laptop for data transfers.

BTW:
If anyone is looking for a deal on ext hard drives with the features noted below, you can save about $40 thru Buydig.com

500GB
1394 a, b, USB
Portable - no power adaptor needed
* No horrible reviews(yet) like the Seagate Free Agent Drives I cancelled)
**Formatted for Mac, so just reformat for PC

Buydig: $149 (No S/H, No taxes) Cnet recognized dealer.
Newegg: $189 (S/H + taxes)

http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=WDMT5000TN

[Alltweed]

Ok -

Bad News.

1394b 800 speeds will not be recognized by simply adding a 1394b card to the X61T connecting to 1394b drives. I thought I had read that somewhere, but could not recall..The cardbus speed cannot achieve 800 I am told. Wonder if express cards will?

Here's my rant -

WTF - Why do the manufactures of these 1394b "cardbus" cards not put in the (Sytem Requirements) section, your computers bus speed must be compatable with 1394b specs or something similar!!!!I checked 3 different manuf sites - nada. Disgusted. Much time wasted and cards to be returned. Resellers did not have this info either.

[loyukfai]

This confirms that a 32 bit cardbus 1394 card will achieve at least equal to perf of internal 1394 port.

Maybe. The result could have been be disk-bound, although I think the drive can handle >40MB/s sequential read/write but I didn't make efforts to ensure the outermost track was used during the test. It could also be the controller, or something else. Besides, I didn't test the CPU utilization rate, and try different cache settings in Device Manager.

I could have done more tests but since that is the only 1394 device I have, and there's important data on it, I prefer not to use it for a more thorough test. Sorry about that.

The CardBus has theoretically enough bandwidth to handle 1394b (1.06Gbit/s versus 800Mbit/s). However, there are always overhead and due to implementation details, the actual available bandwidth could be less.

You may like to check this out... http://2xod.com/articles/Lenovo%20T61%20Slow%20PCMCIA/ (and update your BIOS if you haven't)

[Alltweed]

Thx for that...

I just checked the bios updates for x61t - its 1.22 and does include a fix for Richo

Version 7SET36WW (1.22)

(New) Added PCI Express Power Management disabling capability in BIOS setup.
(Fix) Boot priority order does not work on selecting AMT remote console.
(Fix) Windows XP installation may stop responding on the way.
(Fix) System reboot should be done for all Physical Presence I/F command execution.
(Fix) The computer with Smart Card Reader resumes normal operation from sleep state unexpectedly.
(Fix) The computer with RICOH CardBus Controller has slow data transfer performance.

Re: 1394b 800

I am just noting getting any positive feedback that the x61t can handle this at all. Not understanding if this is a cardbus issue or the internal bus on motherboard. Just keep hearing cant support 800. Wonder if any of the new thinkpads support 800.

[loyukfai]

IIRC, newer ThinkPads have at least one ExpressCard slot.

According to the page referred above, the T61's CardBus slot managed to handle about 60MB/s. That's somewhat higher than the maximum potential of FireWire 400, but still fell short of the best of FireWire 800.

Whether the performance difference (if there) worths the effort and money is a question you have to answer yourself...

Cheers. : )