Thinkpads Forum

Upgrading

• 2gb -> 4gb memory
• 5400 rpm HDD (with a lousy 24 MB/s seq read test on crystal) -> to SSD

Questions:
1) To use the 4gb memory do I need to install vista x64 or can the 32bit use it?
2) I'd like to get a fast SSD but some of the threads mention a speed cap. Is this also true for X61t? My speed requirement is fast sleep/wake up / application or document launch. I'm thinking atleast a 60gb or 120gb.

Thoughts?

(1) You have to use either a x64 "standard" OS or 32-bit Server OS.

(2) Yes, the speed cap applies to your machine as well. For your purposes I don´t think you will be able to see any real-life performance difference due to the speed cap. There is a chance that Lenovo will release some update to resolve that issue for the Santa-Rosa platform. As of yet, don´t count on it though (just IMO).

Marin

So sounds like the higher read/write rates won't help. How about buying a 64gb SLC for under $200:
Here is an older samsung SLC drive 64gb I found:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid ... ID=1225267

I think this would be a very good pick since the drive is SLC and is offered at very reasonable price. As of now SLC SSDs have proved to cause less headaches than the MLC ones (actually, I´m not aware of any issues with any non-budget SLC SSDs), and in theory SLC SSDs are also known to have longer life.

Cheers,

Marin

some 32bit Linux can also use up to 64GB ram
Vista Service Pack 1 32bit can also do I think...

I have some question:

Can the X61(s,t) use CL4 Ram effectively? I was thinking of either ordering 4GB (2x2GB) Kingston HyperX which is CL4 for around 70 EUR or just normal Kingston 4GB (2x2GB) which is CL5 and costs around 40 EUR.

Does the Thinkpad detect the STD correctly and run the RAM with CL4?

Is it worth to pay 175% of the price just to have CL4 instead of CL5?

Regarding HyperX on the Santa-Rosa platform I would suggest you reading Unsuccessfully going bananas with 800 CAS4 RAM on a 667 T61p

Vista 32-bit SP1 cannot use 4 GB.

Even if you manage to bring the HyperX memory to run, there is, as of now, no evidence that it will deliver even the smallest performance gain in a laptop (unless you intend to overclock the whole mobo). (I admit, my platform is not Santa-Rosa, but I have never been able to even to benchmark any performance increase.) Also, the 800 MHz RAM will downclock to 667 MHz on Santa Rosa.

Hope this helps,

Marin

Okay, thanks, I wasn't sure about Vista... (Why does Microsoft put these limits? It's nearly just a marketing decision...)

And, I wasn't talking about higher clocked HyperX, just 667MHz RAM like the other, but with CAS Latency 4 instead of 5, like the "normal" Kingston has.

//edit,addition:
So from that other Thread, does the Chipset really clock down to just 553Mhz when more than 3GB is inserted? That doesn't make much sense to me O.o I would not install more than 3GB then, because that would mean it slows down the system...
Somebody knows?

I guess the 667 MHz HyperX would run just fine in your X61(s,t), but IMO you won´t see even the smallest performance benefit from it.

bluesceada wrote://edit,addition:
So from that other Thread, does the Chipset really clock down to just 553Mhz when more than 3GB is inserted? That doesn't make much sense to me O.o I would not install more than 3GB then, because that would mean it slows down the system...

No such thing Where the heck did you read it?... The thread I linked to doesn´t mention anything like this.

The first post of A.K.A contains:

In my case, that may have temporarily been the silver lining in this whole experiment. As you'll probably know, the chipset in the T61 series hardware drops back from 667 to 533 when it has over 3GB installed. So, in effect, a 4GB set of this RAM might go all the way to CAS 2. Gnarly? . . . Dooooood . . . . .

So...?

SSDs have very fast access time, this advantage you'll get regardeless of any speed limit. Samsung slc SSDs are very good, I am using one and its speed and quality is outstanding.

@bluesceada: I admit this sentence, taken for itself, is somewhat confusing ... But judging by the context of his post (i.e. the small experiment he attempted) I believe A.K.A. was actually referring to the fact that if one installs one module at 667 MHz and another module at 533 MHz (since 3 or more GBs of RAM could be achieved only with 2 modules, not taking the very expensive 4 GB modules into account), then the first one will downclock to 533 MHz.

So, again, to answer your question, if you install 3 or more GB of RAM at 667 MHz (altogether) in your x61, they won´tdownclock to 533 MHz.

I hope things are now clear

Cheers,

Marin

FYI, my X61T has 3GB of memory installed and according to CPU-Z, the DRAM frequency is about 333MHz. Since it's DDR RAM the effective rate is about 667MHz.

And to fully utilize >3GB memory, you need a 64-bit OS.

Cheers. : )

loyukfai wrote:And to fully utilize >3GB memory, you need a 64-bit OS.

Not entirely true. 32-bit OSes with "native" 36-bit (PAE) support can utilize more than 3 GB of RAM (provided the chipset allows it). Such OSes are all recent 32-bit Linux distros and 32-bit Windows Server OSes. However, there is a limitation to the addressable system memory per application, which is 2 GB. And to clarify something: despite all the marketing and some "rumors" XP and Vista (and probably WIn 7) cannot effectively utilize PAE, adding PAE switches doesn´t help anyway (despite the fact that Vista comes with DEP enabled by default on DEP-supporting hardware).

Cheers,

Marin

@Marin85:
Thanks to clarify this, it would've been very strange if it would clock down just because there are more than 3GB...

to 64bit OS's etc:
You can for example run a 32bit Linux System (32bit userspace), but use a 64bit Kernel. I use this to have 100% 32bit compatibility but use the 64bit optimized aes-crypto modules which are in the kernel.

Well I did the upgrades. Here are the results:



Overall with the two little upgrades costing me a tad over $200, I've been fairly pleased. Now I really wish I could have used an intel x-25m, but due to the constraints of this tablet this is the best I could do. Those two simple upgrades have breathed new life into the tablet. I was so upset with it that I was about to chunk it and go get a macbook air fully loaded with ssd ($2500). Now it's almost as good as a new lappy. I'd love to have the nvidia 9400 on this, and intel x-25m would be my ideal lappy/tabby. But this will do. Esp for the price.

For the most part, I don't do any hardcore number crunching or cpu intensive work. Just usual MS office / web surfing. Yes a netbook would suffice. But really the key is having plenty of ram and a fast fast SSD. The fastest you can get. The cpu in the x61 is more than enough for most tasks. I'm currently running vista x64t - fresh install without any of the junk lenovo puts on it. Yes I realize I don't have active protection (don't need it with ssd), and if I don't usually have anything on the local drive that I can't live w/o. The copy of music is on the mp3 player. Copy of my files if important is backed up remotely. Though I don't really have anything I need to keep. Except my grades except spreadsheet to see how far I am from that A

Upgrades done, in order of what I feel made the most impact in breathing new life to my 2 year old x61 tabby:
1) 5400 rpm 160gb HDD -> 64gb SLC samsung SSD
2) 2gb ram -> 4g ram
3) Fresh install Vista x64 without using lenovo stuff.

Really I have more ram than I now what to do with even if I run virtual pc. I'm considering using some of that extra space as a ramdisk.

EDIT: I also installed linux mint. What a joy to use. And is fast. couldn't get my external monitor (1920x1200) to play well in extended desktop mode. Probably can be done but couldn't find an easy gui way and got tired of tinkering around under the hood.

I can't imagine what you're using your tablet for that you find the processor too slow. My X61s has 4 GB of RAM, a 5400 RPM hard drive, and running Windows 7. This thing is a SPEED DEMON! Especially with Google Chrome and MS Office, I can't believe how fast it is.

Anyway, glad to hear you were able to rejuvenate your ThinkPad. I don't know about you, but nothing has tempted me yet to give up the ruggedness and this fabulous keyboard.

Sine wrote:I can't imagine what you're using your tablet for that you find the processor too slow. My X61s has 4 GB of RAM, a 5400 RPM hard drive, and running Windows 7. This thing is a SPEED DEMON! Especially with Google Chrome and MS Office, I can't believe how fast it is.

Anyway, glad to hear you were able to rejuvenate your ThinkPad. I don't know about you, but nothing has tempted me yet to give up the ruggedness and this fabulous keyboard.

CPU wasn't the bottleneck. Also Win 7 >> Vista. I'd use google chrome if it had adblock plus, autopager, foxmarks, and forecast fox extensions. I mostly just use MS office and web surfing for school. Nothing intense. The SLC SSD >> 5400 rpm.

The slowness I previously encountered with Vista was mostly startup / shutdown / sleep / wakeup related. Once it was going it was fine.