X61 owners: Need your advice

[The Fire Snake]

Hello everybody,
This is my first post on this forum but I have been a long time lurker. I really love Thinkpads and wanted to become a member of this board and I have now! I was wondering if I could get your input on the questions below.

I want to get an X series machine and price is a big thing. I am looking at refurb machines from Lenovo's Outlet, ebay or any deal that is great. It looks like I can get an X61 machine for a pretty good price, but I have read some pretty bad things about it recently. The issues that people are complaining about don't seem specific to the individual but seem to apply to the whole line. They seem like manufacturing defects. Here are the 2 major complaints I have been reading from a LOT of people.

1.) The machine gets VERY VERY hot. It gets especially hot near the right palm rest to such a degree where most people can't use the machine for more than 30 minutes. After which point their hand is burning and sweating and is very uncomfortable. It seems that the WIFI card was put right under the palm rest, which is the source of the heat. The heat issue is no better with the X61s, which should be more energy efficient.

2.) With the X61 Tablet many people are complaining with the bezel separating from the screen. Others are reporting the bezel just crumbling in their hand like candy. These are people who have taken very good care of their machines. Not sure if these bezel problems effect the regular X61(non tablet) line.

These seem like very big causes of concern. What do you folks who own these machines think? Have you experienced the same problems? Thanks a lot.

[treker]

I just received my second X61, this one using the 2.4ghz processor and Intel WiFi. This was from Lenovo Outlet. They said "refurbished" but I couldn't tell it from my first X61 using 2.0ghz processor and ThinkPad Wifi that was purchased new 1 1/2 years ago. At $610 it was a very good price. Full year warranty. Runs cool and quiet. The newest one came with Vista. I replaced the 80gb drive with a new Hitachi 320gb 7200rpm drive and loaded WinXP PRO. I did a torture test overnight using OCCT which workloaded both processors 100%. Processor got warm (89C) as wll as the palmrest. Uncomfortable...? No, I din't consider it that bad, but it was warm. Under normal use, both X61 palmrests are warm but not objectionable. The Intel Wifi is warmer than Thinkpad adaptor. I use ThinkPad Fan to control the fan so most of the time the fan is off or at level 1. There is no better highly portable 12in 4:3 screen 3.2lb laptop IMHO.

BUY the last of the 4:3 screen laptops before they are all gone. WS are fine for movie watching but for getting real work done, I think 4:3 is the better screen.

[dr_st]

What's located under the right palmrest in the X61 is the WiFi card. When there is intensive WiFi usage, it gets hot. Whether it's just hot or uncomfortably hot depends on:

* Personal sensitivity level
* Luck
* Type of WiFi card? (maybe)

[ZaZ]

Supposedly the Atheros card runs warmer, but has better range. I could never tell the difference myself.

[dr_st]

Maybe... The card we have in my GF's laptop, which runs quite hot, sometimes uncomfortably so, is the 4965AGN. The 3945ABG may or may not be cooler.

[virge]

I picked up an modern X61s (with Ultralight screen, WWAN, 7200RPM drive and Intel wireless) for my wife because unlike me, she doesn't like switching Thinkpads every 6-12 months. The WWAN is disabled in device manager.

The palmrest does get warm on the right side. It doesn't get hot enough to be uncomfortable though. This laptop is frequently used in bed, on top of the comforter too.

My thoughts: 1. The bezel separation seemed to have only been with the tablet models and I remember reading that this issue has been fixed. 2. Models with the WWAN come with a second fan under the palmrest. This may be why some machines run cooler than others.

[madcow]

I have an X60 and an X61. The X60 was a 1.8 Ghz Core Duo and the X61 was a 2.2 Ghz Core 2 Duo. I actually think the X61 was cooler. It never really got hot enough to be uncomfortable. The wifi does get hot but not uncomfortably hot. I think it is one of the coolest machine I had so far compare to one of my 500Mhz ibook, a p4 Sony, and so on.

[ArtShapiro]

i purchased an X61 for my wife a year and a half ago, and I'd say your assessment of the heat problem is exaggerated. While that area gets warm at times, I've never thought it uncomfortably so and really don't give it a second thought. She uses the machine far more than I, and after initially asking if the heat was an issue has never mentioned it again.

It's a nice machine. I'm not a big fan of XGA, as that simply isn't sufficient vertical space for the things I like to do, But at least it's not a wretched widescreen machine.

Art

[The Fire Snake]

Thanks everybody for the great comments. I decided to go for a X200 and just received the machine a week ago. I absolutely love it. It is very light even with the 9 cell battery and is quite a change for me since I am coming from a T61p with 9 cell. The X200 is light, has great battery life and is very very cool. In fact I don't even feel any heat where the heat is being pushed out. I would have gone for an X61 but the strange thiing I found was that the prices of the X61 that I found were very close to the X200 series, so I decided to go for the X200 since it is a newer machine with some nice upgrades in specs and design. I think my ideal machine is probably a X200s but the price difference was quite a bit more. Maybe I will get it someday.

As far as wide screen, it can be helpful in some situations like when programming with Visual Studeo and when comapring 2 documents or spreadsheets side by side. I don't think the wide screen is very helpful when reading 1 document or surfing the web.

Thanks for all your help guys. This is a great site for Thinkpad fans like me. It amazes me how much good detail is on this site and the amazing members on this forum. I always wanted a Thinkpad in college but could never get one, now I have 2!

[ThinkRob]

Glad you found a ThinkPad you like!

Even though the OP's moved on, I figured I'd post my experience here in case anyone else is making a similar decision....

I've currently got an X61s. It was purchased new from Lenovo c. Nov/Dec. (I can't remember when exactly.)

Like many folks I heard a lot of horror stories about the WiFi card and the heat it produces. After having used the machine for several months now, I can't help but think that either I'm very lucky or that the reviewers whose writeups I read were very, very picky.

My X61s has an IWL4965 for its WiFi card, and I can honestly say that I've only ever felt it get warm when I intentionally disabled powersaving and was saturating the link. Under normal usage it barely qualifies as tepid.

As for CPU heat, I noticed that someone said their CPU hits 89C. Er.... yikes.

Now I know that the chips in the X61 aren't the same ULVs that are in the X61s, but 89C is really pretty hot. For comparison sake, my X61s rarely tops 50C. Most of the time, the fan's off and the machine's totally silent. I've seen it get as high as 60-something, but that was during a lengthy kernel build.

At any rate, my advice for anyone currently considering an X61 or X61s is: *do it!* I'm a staunch 4:3 proponent, and the X61 series is the last of its kind in that regard. (Plus it's got that old-school IBM design feel to it...)

[treker]

ThinkRod,
I was the one when torture testing my new X61, that the cpu got to 89C. It runs in the 30-40s range normally. Of course, the cpu isn't working at 100% all the time like in the torture test. But both my X61 are warm above the wifi card (Intel or Thinkpad makes little difference). Is it uncomfortable...no but I do notice the warmth. Much of my surfing is with mouse and my hands are not on the palmrest. Only notice this warmth when typing an email or word document.
This is overwhelmingly a 'noticed item' in X61 comments on this board. Many many comments. Even the OP noticed it. I wish Lenovo did not have this warmth issue. I love Thinkpads and recommend them to everyone.

But 89C during torture testing is not a 'yikes'. They are rated at 100C. There was no thermal shutdown at 89C and that was after a long test period. It was a brand new X61 that I wanted to reliability test right out of the box. It passed. Now I have two Thinkpads with 4:3 screens. Should last me a long time.

[dr_st]

This is overwhelmingly a 'noticed item' in X61 comments on this board. Many many comments. Even the OP noticed it. I wish Lenovo did not have this warmth issue.

My thoughts exactly (and it is probably not just X61, but all X6x).

It is noticed and brought up enough to be considered a significant design flaw. It may not be at the level of uncomfortable in 100% of the units, or for 100% of the people, but it's definitely up there in the list of known flaws, along with the T43 fan noise, for instance.

[VipFreak]

89c?! And I was getting worried at 70c. Guess I won't then. lol

As for the x61 since I have everything pretty much situated now, I'm really happy with it and would definitely recommend it. A bit disappointed with touch (using your finger on the screen instead of the pen) capability though...

[ThinkRob]

But both my X61 are warm above the wifi card (Intel or Thinkpad makes little difference). Is it uncomfortable...no but I do notice the warmth. Much of my surfing is with mouse and my hands are not on the palmrest. Only notice this warmth when typing an email or word document.

To be honest I have to wonder if this has something to do with the driver's behavior re: power-saving. I've noticed a difference in the heat output from the card when running Vista vs. Debian, and I suspect is has to do with the card's power-saving settings.

But 89C during torture testing is not a 'yikes'. They are rated at 100C. There was no thermal shutdown at 89C and that was after a long test period. It was a brand new X61 that I wanted to reliability test right out of the box. It passed. Now I have two Thinkpads with 4:3 screens. Should last me a long time.

Yeah, I can definitely believe it hit a little under 90C during a prolonged torture test... still, that's pretty darn hot.

I know it's within the operating temps for the chip, but I still tend to be a bit wary of high temperatures and sensitive electronics. Temperatures like that won't cause any substantial damage but they might shorten the life of the board a bit.

I agree though: overall it's nothing to worry about. (Now the first-gen Core Duo MacBooks hitting 100C out of the box on the other hand...)