Thinkpads Forum

After much deliberation, I think I've finally settled on something. Initially I was quite set on the X41, but after being made aware of the numerous upgrades that can be had with an X60 (namely a Core 2 Duo and normal size 2.5" drive), I decided it would be worth the extra $$$. I am a student, so money is tight, but after months of scouring ebay I think I am finally certain on this model. I only have a few questions before I am ready to take the plunge.

The X60s is indeed smaller than the X60? From what I understood the X60s is the successor to the X41, and the X60 is the successor to the X3x.

Can I put a 7200 rpm drive in the X60s?

Does a dual core cpu draw more power than a single core? (Battery life is my #1 concern, I could care less about storage or otherwise; provided decent speeds)

Is the dock a worthwhile expenditure? Seems like the optical drive might come in handy....

How is the wireless range?

Is the bottom bump on the extended battery a nuisance at all? I've never used a laptop with such a battery.

2gb is the max ram?

While that's pretty it me thinks. These things are tough to find on ebay (this is the best I've found so far, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %26otn%3D2), but I will be persistent.

The X6x series is definitely a good choice over an X41, a few very knowledgeable members here have shared their thoughts on this in a recent thread:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79892

In particular, the ability to use SATA hard drives in the X6x (as supposed to the rare 1.8" IDE/ATA drives) is the biggest reason to skip over the X40/X41. So yes, you can definitely put a 7200 rpm in an X60s. In fact, you may want to consider an SSD if space in not a huge issue for you.

The X60s is indeed smaller and lighter than the X60, but not by much. According to tabook, the X60 weights 3.15/3.6 lbs with a 4/8 cell, while the X60s weighs 3/3.46 lbs.

A standard dual core cpu will certainly draw more power than a single core one. But the X60s has the low voltage, Core Duo L2300/L2400/L2500 (or, occasionally, a Core 2 Duo L7400 according to thinkwiki.org), so this will help mitigate the power consumption issue. Since you mentioned about possibly upgrading to a Core 2 Duo, then may I suggest you look into the X61s also, as all X61s will already have a low voltage Core 2 Duo processor (L7300/L7500 or L7700).

The dock is nice to have if you can get it for cheap, but keep in mind that you can get a new external DVD burner for under $50, such as this Samsung model on Newegg.com:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827151182

Most X6x's will have an a/b/g card, and I can't think of any reasons why the wireless range will be significantly better or worse than another laptop with the a similar setup.

I don't own an X6x yet (though seriously considering getting one), but I have a couple X40's with the 8-cell batteries. I don't think it is a nuisance at all, in fact, I find the 'bump' to be a nice handle to grab the laptop with. Especially since you are concerned with battery life, the 8-cell would definitely be a plus.

4GB RAM is the maximum you can put in (2 slots for 2GB each). But of course it will only 'see' about 3GB if you are running a 32-bit system. If you are going to purchase the X60s you linked to, try to make sure that it still has the Windows COA sticker on it.

Also remember to go to eBay through Bing.com to get the cashback for Buy-it-now items. It is currently at 8%.

As a final thought, I would strongly recommend getting a unit that has Lenovo warranty remaining, even if it costs a little more. For instance, I have been eying this X61s unit since yesterday:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

The X series use soldered CPU. In order to upgrade them you'll need to replace the motherboard.

I'd vote for the X60. Since you're on a tight budget the you can probably get the X60 cheaper and the upgrade to the X61 doesn't offer much in performance or feature enhancements.

FredGarvin wrote:I'd vote for the X60. ... the upgrade to the X61 doesn't offer much in performance or feature enhancements.

+1 vote for the above advice. In fact, an X61/s offers a distinct disadvantage over an X60/s, since the fan on the X61/s almost never stops, whereas the fan on the X60/s almost never starts.

Great advice above. I'll just add that I had an X40 for several years, which I loved. I replaced it with an X60s earlier this year. The X60s is equal or better in every way with two minor exceptions, due to using a standard size laptop drive (2.5"), it runs hotter on the right side and has a slightly more drive noise. The X40/X41 1.8" drive may have been slow, but it was cool and very quiet. The good news is that an SSD would fix both issues, as they run cool and silent.

The amazing thing about the X60s, especially one configured with an UlraLight LCD and 4 cell slim battery, is that it weighs exactly the same as an X40 - 2.7 lbs. The peformance is amazing and the low voltage CPU's are nearly as efficient as the X40/X41 CPU's. They use much less power than the standard Core Duo/Core 2 Duo CPU's.

Note: I swapped out the standard 60GB 5400rpm drive for a 100GB 7200rpm drive and there was no change in heat or noise, just improved performance - well worth the swap. (Perhaps some brands of drives run cooler/more quiet, both of mine were Travelstars?)

Here's an X60s for $338 Buy It Now, shouldn't last long! --> http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Thinkpad-X60s-L ... 0343677511

Thanks for all the awesome posts

I'm sorry for my error regarding the processor. What I meant to say was that vs the X41 the X60s offers a Core Duo cpu, instead of Pentium M; I have no plans to replace the motherboard ;p. Perhaps I might be wrong in this, but the X60 is a dual core cpu? Just not a Core 2 Duo?

The X60s is of similar size to the X60, but the low voltage cpu is what really draws me. Although it is less power, it seems as though it would offer a fair bit more battery life.

Additionally, I think I will try and go for the dock. In my mind, I see myself hooking the dock up all nice on the shelf above my desktop, hooking it up into my monitors 2nd display port, and being able to use it as such when I need to. (silly, I know)

The 8 cell battery is a must.

4gb of ram is fantastic.

I'm actually not too concerned about the Windows COA, I have a few extra...

Also THANK YOU! For letting me know about bings cashback. I had no idea this existed. Its a little bit of pain to get to on the site, but will save me at least $25.

Thanks to all your posts, I am quite solid on my decision to get a X60s now. (I didn't know about the fan thing with the X61s, not that it mattered, because I couldn't afford one ) I'll get the X60s, the dock, and as soon as I have enough money a 16gb or so SSD, and I'll be flyin.

PS: of the two ebay links posted, which one would be better ? I'm kind of a novice ebay shopper

Due to the chipset 3GB is the max memory for the X60 or X60. Don't waste your money buying more. Unless you've got a specific need I doubt you need more, especially if you're running XP.

3gb is fine as well. Will be nice not to have to use x64.

Just to chime in (maybe because I like hearing myself talk =P)..

The X60s is thinner than the X60, but only if you use the 4-cell slimline battery (which by my usage estimate gets 2.5-3 hours using wireless and browsing this forum). The regular 4-cell battery and the 8-cell both have bumps which raise the back of the unit up, which from my understanding is effectively the height of the X60.

I think the X60s in the last revision had a Core 2 Duo (64-bit) processor, but most that you'll find are Core Duos. If you really want to maximize battery life, try to find the 1.5GHz Core Solo version. I've heard that the fan rarely spins up on that. The fan is still pretty quiet when it does spin up.

The dock is nice to have, but I've only used it for the optical drive when installing operating systems. Windows 7 supports installing from USB media, and XP will too with a bit of coaxing. I gave up trying, since I figured it was more time effective to just burn a CD.

I picked up a 160GB 7200rpm drive from NewEgg (a shell shocker) recently and it works pretty nicely. It even draws 0.05A less than the original Travelstar =).

If you're looking for a sleeve, make sure it fits your chosen battery type. I bought one from eBay (it's black with red interior and a sandwich bag-like fold-over) and it fits the 4-cell cylindrical battery. It's wide enough to fit an X200, but I have doubts if it could accommodate the 8-cell. The material is stretchy, so it might fit. I don't have a battery to try it.

Some things I don't like about the X60s:
- The screen/lid has a pretty close tolerance to the keyboard, and you'll often find oil from the trackpoint on the screen.

- The only flush-fitting battery is the 4-cell slimline, which gets at best 3 hours. The trade-off, obviously, is that it's an ultraportable. The rear battery location allows more room for expansion, but makes the unit want to flop backwards when opening the lid.

- The screen is dimmer than other laptops. On the plus side, this allows for more power savings. I've seen a power consumption of 7 watts (reported by the ThinkVantage Power Manager) under Windows 7. The lowest I've seen prior to that was around 12W.

Overall, it's very solidly built. I put in a PCMCIA dummy card into the slot to give it a bit of reinforcement. I recommend the ones that come with Dells, as they fit perfectly flush and even have the same texturized plastic.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the X60s. Even if you are, just continue using it for a while and it'll grow on you =).

force wrote:- The screen is dimmer than other laptops.

Two kinds of screens were made for the X60s, i.e. the UltraLight and the non-UltraLight. The UltraLight is brighter and lighter. If you find your X60s dim, you probably have a non-UltraLight model. An X60s with UltraLight and the 4-cell slimline battery weighs 2.69 lb, or 0.09 lb lighter than the X40. The X60s that I owned was non-UL and had the 4-cel slimline battery, and it weighed 2.89 lb according to my balance. The 0.20-lb difference is noticeable, so if the OP cares about weight, s/he should definitely look for an UL model.

force wrote:I don't think you'll be disappointed with the X60s. Even if you are, just continue using it for a while and it'll grow on you =).

I was disappointed with my X60s, which was why I sold it after just several weeks. The biggest problem was the hot palmrest, which was possibly the warmest palmrest I have ever experienced (and I've owned over 40 laptops!). The second biggest issue for me was the 1024x768 screen. At that time (Dec 2006), I had just gotten used to my Inspiron 6000's 1920x1200 screen and started to dislike low-resolution screens, but I bought this X60s anyway thinking that I could force myself to accept its obsolete resolution. But of course, I could not. I don't mind using 1024x768 on a 10.4" screen (like the one on my 240Z), but such a low res on a 12.1" screen is a waste IMO.

Atreides wrote:The 8 cell battery is a must.

Then I strongly recommend you to get an UltraLight X60s. The 8-cell battery is very heavy and so you want the rest of the machine to be as light as possible. Trust me, if you carry around the laptop a lot, you can easily feel the 0.20-lb difference.

The warm palmrest (and it does sometime get warm) is due to the wireless card being there and what I think is some sort of power circuit on the bottom of the planar. Later X60's have some copper shielding there that reduces the heat. I've never found the palmrest to be uncomfortably warm, even when charging the battery and using wireless. I removed the WWAN card, but I don't think it really has any effect.

Force~ I will probably end up with a few different batteries for different uses. (Say an 8 cell for long hauls, and a 4 cell slim if I know I won't be out too long. Some x60s's have Core 2 Duos, and some have Core Solos; but the majority from what I've seen are Core Duos. Even more specifically the majority of models I see are of the 1.66ghz Core Duo variety. This seems acceptable to me, and will most likely be what I will have to settle for.
I think I might disregard the dock. After a bit of thought I realized that I hardly ever use either cd bay I have in my desktop. And any install I may need to do can be converted into an image, transferred to the laptop, and then installed. Either way, I think the dock may just end up an expensive and little used attachment for me.
I think I'll just use the original hdd for as long as I can, then buy an ssd when they reach acceptable prices. I could get by with 16gb, so it shouldn't be too long before 16 ssd's are selling for decent prices.
Screen dimness doesn't really bother me either, whenever I use someone else's laptop I just end up dimming it anyways to save battery life.
Heh, thanks for the tidbit about the thumb nib and the dummy card as well. I can steal one of my schools dell dummy cards >:)

Piano~ That point about UL vs non-UL is very good, I had totally disregarded that prior. I suppose I'll have to start trying to ask sellers on ebay if they can find out the nature of the screen. Is it significantly brighter? Do certain models generally have the UL screen, or is there any way to easily tell?
Also, I agree that the resolution is low on the X60s. I hope that this will not be a problem for me, as 90% of what I do on my laptop will be web browsing and word processing. The other 10% being retro games. I have a desktop I use that is more than powerful enough for any other tasks, and even that only has a 1280x1024 resolution, with a 1024x768 2nd monitor. So as you can see, I'm not used to particularly phenomenal resolutions.

Also it gets [censored] cold where I live, so a toasty palm rest may be a plus

My main concern with the CD drive is for the operating system install. As noted before, there are ways around it, but require some work. I too don't use it all that often, but it's nice to have a DVD burner (my first, actually) since the CDRW in my old laptop is not that reliable.

The integrated graphics card can play Halo: Combat Evolved/Custom Edition (been playing with some inexperienced coworkers, hehe) and also Counter-Strike 1.6. I haven't tried any newer games.

A lower resolution for retro games might be preferable since it wouldn't have to upscale it quite as much.

Atreides wrote:I suppose I'll have to start trying to ask sellers on ebay if they can find out the nature of the screen. Is it significantly brighter? Do certain models generally have the UL screen, or is there any way to easily tell?

According to the ltwbook (http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/ltwbook.pdf), most X60s models are non-UL. So, you want to look for 1702-94U, 1702-7CU, or 1702-H7U. Of course there are CTO models that are not listed in the ltwbook. In these cases, look up the laptop's serial number and check the parts info on Lenovo's web site.

I've never compared the two kinds of screens in person, but recall seeing a photo with the two side by side and the UL screen was indeed much brighter.

Atreides wrote:Also, I agree that the resolution is low on the X60s. I hope that this will not be a problem for me, as 90% of what I do on my laptop will be web browsing and word processing.

For me, high screen res is especially important when I'm doing word processing because I like to see many documents at once. But if you are used to viewing one maximized document at a time, then the X60s should be okay.

Sigh, the UL screen does seem to be quite nice, but I am having an impossible time finding it. Looking at the those spec sheets it seems only 3 or 4 of all the models had it, and I cannot find them anywhere.

This is the best I've found so far on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-THINKPAD-LENOVO ... 286.c0.m14

Unless anybody has any major objection, I may take the plunge on this one.

Not that this matters, but it doesn't come with an OS on the hard drive. I keep bringing this up, but you might need some sort of CD drive to install. Otherwise, it looks pretty good (the pictures are small, though). Personally, I don't care for the fingerprint reader, because it's not in the best place. Apart from that, I didn't see any mention of the condition of the battery. The screen, for what it's worth, appears to be a BOEHydis one, but I don't think it's an AFFS one. You can always be pleasantly surprised, though =).

Good luck!

Thanks for the support force .

My plan is to just pop the drive out of the laptop, hook it up to my desktop and install the OS from there. (had to do this with a friends eee before, works like a cd drive, just a huge pita) Fingerprint reader is a novelty for me. I also pretty much planned on having to buy a new battery, so I'm not worried if the used battery (it is used) has little life left.

I don't know any of this AFFS screen business and whatnot. I'll let you guys know how it is when I bid/(hopefully) get it in a few days.

Worse comes to worse, I can always put it back up on ebay