Thinkpads Forum

Open to anyone who has experience with both S models.
I know the processors are different both in cache and architecture. Plus there maybe other more
subtle motherboard differences but in real world usage (on the light side for me) is there any substantial
difference?
I'm referring to overall speed, not that the X60s is slow but is there a 'wow' factor to the X61s?
Thanks in advance.

Tim S

No wow factor. I love my X60s and one of my good buddies bought the X61s. The big difference is Core Duo vs. Core-2-Duo. We both are running Windows 7 32 Bit and 3 GB of memory, 7200 RPM HD's.

I would not throw rocks at the X60 or X60s since I have owned both of them. The X60s has always performed fast, reliable, and never have had any issues. I recently upgraded to an X200s and X200. There is a major difference between these two models.

If you are thinking about getting either and X60s or X61s...they are both good and no major difference in my opinion. Get a nine cell battery and you will be a happy camper.

My gut told me there wasn't that much of a difference between the two. I have a couple of X60s models, one for my
wife the other for me. I was thinking about upgrading(?) to an X61s but I didn't really think it was worth the effort, especially using 32bit software.

Tim S

My advice, skip the X61s and save up for an X200 or X200s.

That's my plan at least.

Atreides wrote:My advice, skip the X61s and save up for an X200 or X200s.

That's my plan at least.

Really the only reason to do that is battery life (if you go with the X200s w/ ULV) and screen size (assuming XGA isn't sufficient for you -- IMO it's still quite reasonable for everyday use.)

Skip x60s or x61s!

My wife has x61s, the palm rest gets hot. I don't know about x60s though.
I can add a second fan, but I feel like it's a waste of money at the moment.
I will probably upgrade hers with a ULV core i5 later in the year.

hp79 wrote:Skip x60s or x61s!

My wife has x61s, the palm rest gets hot. I don't know about x60s though.

As an owner of both the X60s and X61s, I'm not really sure that a slightly warm palmrest is reason to skip some of the best ultraportables Lenovo's made.

Yes, the palmrest gets warm (not hot) if you have an Intel 3945 *and* if you use it heavily without enabling powersaving. So... you know... don't do that.

My X61s had an Intel 4965, and I never had any problems with palmrest temperatures once I enabled the powersaving features of the card. Adding an after-market WWAN card without adding a second fan did indeed make it warm -- but only when the card was in use. Truth be told, even then it didn't even get warm enough to annoy me, so I never bothered to add a second fan.

Yes, the palmrest gets warm (not hot) if you have an Intel 3945 *and* if you use it heavily without enabling powersaving. So... you know... don't do that.

I thought x61s only come with intel 4965 and not intel 3945. Anyways, it has a intel 4965 agn wifi card, LED back light. Palm rest gets hot. I even undervolted her x61s, and lower power settings. Doesn't help much. I think they just crammed too much stuff in there. She always (mostly) use it on antec aluminum notebook cooler, and use wired gigabit lan.

I think x61s was a good laptop for the past, but certainly not for now.

I use thinkpad x61t, because it is bigger, it has better cooling. Produces much less heat. But after upgrading to intel SSD, I feel the lack of the CPU.

hp79 wrote:Anyways, it has a intel 4965 agn wifi card, LED back light. Palm rest gets hot. I even undervolted her x61s, and lower power settings. Doesn't help much. I think they just crammed too much stuff in there. She always (mostly) use it on antec aluminum notebook cooler, and use wired gigabit lan.

Undervolting won't make any difference -- it's not the CPU that causes the warm palmrest, just the wireless card.

And you must be doing something differently (or the Windows drivers for the card are rubbish), because I've never had any heat problems with my X61s, and I have the same card as you.

Also, you don't have an LED back-lit screen. The X61s only ever shipped with CCFL-backlit panels.

I think x61s was a good laptop for the past, but certainly not for now.

This has me scratching my head a bit. The X61s has a dual-core, 64-bit CPU with full support for virtualization, etc. It's a very modern chip. Add in the fact that you can easily add 4+ GB of RAM to an X61s (along with a top-of-the-line SATA drive), and the only real limitation is the XGA screen -- which may not even be a limitation (depending on the sort of work you do.) I would add the GPU to that list, but honestly the 4500HD is sufficient for pretty much every business task, even if you are running an eye-candy-heavy OS...

The X6x palmrest does get hot. The extent may vary from "mildly warm" to "uncomfortably hot", depending on the sensitivity of the user, and the luck of the draw. It happens due to the wireless card, and regardless of whether it's the 3945 or the 4965. The ultrabase somehow makes it worse. Using wireless power management features does help, and in most cases makes it so that the laptop is never uncomfortably hot, except maybe when under stress.

Howeve,r the heat is there, and it is more pronounced than in any other Thinkpad I've used. It has been reported by a sufficient number of users on a sufficient number of machines to conclude that there is a design flaw. Whether it's a serious enough flaw to consider the series a dud? In my opinion, no.

dr_st wrote:However, the heat is there, and it is more pronounced than in any other Thinkpad I've used. It has been reported by a sufficient number of users on a sufficient number of machines to conclude that there is a design flaw. Whether it's a serious enough flaw to consider the series a dud? In my opinion, no.

Yep, it definitely is an issue, but honestly I think it's overblown on a lot of forums (for the most part, this one excluded.)

Also worth noting is that there are a number of different palmrest FRUs, and some have more heat shielding than others. This also may contribute to the differences between user reports.

ThinkRob wrote: 1) Yep, it definitely is an issue, but honestly I think it's overblown on a lot of forums (for the most part, this one excluded.)

2) Also worth noting is that there are a number of different palmrest FRUs, and some have more heat shielding than others. This also may contribute to the differences between user reports.

1a) I concur, I have both models and find that each of them are slightly warmer at that location, but far from uncomfortable or objectionable. Personally I really like the X6xx series.

2a) You are 100% correct on this point. We have many of these at work, over 40 units. When I first got mine I took it apart, along with a few others just for a look and I discovered that indeed there is a difference in heat shielding.

Finally, I do think that many people are so focused on picking the machine apart, that they are making far more of this than needed. Yes, I'm sure there are some that are warmer and perhaps even hot, but I haven't seen one in the batch we have.

Cheers...

The difference in heat shielding in palmrests is an interesting point. My wife's 7673-V2V is a X61 (non-s) model with a fingerprint reader.
According to what I researched, hers is the 42W3771 with Thinkpad logo. Other models which may fit are the 42W3769 (with IBM logo), 42X3801/42X3803 (WWAN models) and 42X4680/42X4681 (WWAN KDDI models).

If someone knows from experience which have better heat shielding, I can consider palmrest replacement an option in case my wife complains about heat problems again.

1) The X60s models are fine machines; fast and light with many features available like Bluetooth, WWAN, etc., just no camera. The right side of the palmrest does get warm, sometimes very warm. However, I do not feel it's a deal breaker at all. Prior to my X60s, I had an X40 that I loved. It ran very, very cool. I'd take the warm palmrest and the huge performance increase over the X40 any day, and in fact, that is what I do.

2) In addition to more than one version of the palmrest, there are also at least two versions of the base cover for the X60s. I have one X60s made in 2006 that has two vented areas under the right palmrest area, one runs vertically, one runs horizontally. On another X60s that I have that was made in 2007, the base only has one vented area under the right side of the palmrest that runs horizontally. It seems odd that the vents would be reduced in number, but perhaps it's more of an air flow issue? AFAICT, both machines feel equally warm. And, both have WWAN & BT. I'll take a couple of pictures and link them up here.

Since the wifi adapter and WWAN adapter are directly under the right side of the palmrest, clearly they are the heat culprits. Since it gets warm even when the WWAN is off, then the main culprit is the wifi adapter.

Perhaps a small piece of metal duct tape (or kevlar or fiberglass tape) placed under the palmrest would help, too. However, the heat has to go somewhere.

I've recently had both X60s and a X61s in my house at the same time, and have used both quite extensively.

X61s was pretty loaded with WWAN and AGN, but definitely hotter-running than X60s. Performance-wise, in XP world with 2GB RAM/7200rpm drive in both, there really was no noticeable difference. Not in daily use anyway - I'm not big on benchmarking.

If I still owned X60s and were looking to upgrade, my thoughts would go along X200s lines, not X61s...but that's me.

Another difference, is the step up from Intel 945 (GMA950) to 965 graphics (GMA X3100) which now does Shader Model 4.0 vs. 3.0 - DX10 vs DX9 and Opengl 1.4 vs Opengl 2.1 - and beside of that, also being much faster. So if you are sometimes doing gaming, or other work related to this, that difference might be of interest.

tim S wrote:I'm referring to overall speed, not that the X60s is slow but is there a 'wow' factor to the X61s?

I agree with everyone else that you would not be wowed by upgrading from the X60s to the X61s. Go for the X200s or X201s instead, and if your vision is reasonably good, get one with 1440x900 resolution. The 64.8% increase in real estate from the 1024x768 of the X60s would definitely wow you.

ThinkRob wrote:As an owner of both the X60s and X61s, I'm not really sure that a slightly warm palmrest is reason to skip some of the best ultraportables Lenovo's made.

I had an X60s back in 2006 and sold it after just a month because I couldn't stand its warm palmrest. Eventually, I became so sick of the warm palmrests of most modern laptops that I gave up on laptops altogether. Earlier this morning, I turned on my T42 just for fun and its palmrest already got uncomfortable after only several minutes. Thank God for smartphones, which have made laptops unnecessary even when I am on the road. If I ever bought a laptop (or netbook) again, it would be one without a palmrest, e.g. the Sony P series.

ajkula66 wrote:X61s was pretty loaded with WWAN and AGN, but definitely hotter-running than X60s.

OMG!

pianowizard wrote:if your vision is reasonably good, get one with 1440x900 resolution.

Heck, get WXGA+ even if your vision is bad.

All modern OSs support resolution-independent fonts, so the old wisdom that high res == tiny text is no longer really true (and hasn't been since about 2007 actually...)

surprisingly i am still using my X60s with the original hardware setup.
always been using wired lan, no issue with "warm/hot" palm rest.
it is a reliable machine that serve me throughout many years.

when I bought my x60s, the opinion here was that the x61s is a little more powerful, gets a little hotter and has a little shorter battery life.
A difference not metioned so far: the x60s was available with IR-port.

After a drop I had to switch the palm rest: it is a straight swap to add a x61 palmrest with new Fingerprint reader location, better heat shilding, some more vents ( and a blocked IR port).
The x61s could run a 64 bit OS, But I belive the board is still limited to 3GB, but I am not sure on this one.

If you just do office work, the x60s and x61s should be equal.

If you consider x6x or x2xx: check the foot print: I think no newer x-series can match the x60 foot print /b screen real estate ratio.

cheers

r.

schmaud wrote:But I belive the board is still limited to 3GB, but I am not sure on this one.

X61/s/T do not have it anymore . You can put up to 8GB (although this is very expensive)

I made a custom X60s for my wife (L2400 1.66 GHz board for low power consumption, WWAN, 6200N wifi, SSD, IPS conversion) and she loves it. It runs absolutely silently (fan is always off during normal use), is fast and compact (she didn't like the SXGA+ converted X61 for the bulkiness so I made that X60s for her).

And for the record, there were Core 2 Duo equipped X60s-es available, with L7400 (1.5 GHz, 4MB L2) CPU, those support 64bit OS but unfortunately still no more than 3GB of RAM. Since nor she neither I use laptops for virtual machines etc it has never been a problem.