Thinkpads Forum

I was just going through my X60 systems and documenting how they were set up when I received the four short beeps boot error code. Prior to this, the system was working fine. I had removed the battery (to log the serial number) and put stickers on the two 1GB memory modules (did not remove them from their sockets). Put the memory cover back on and re-installed the battery and then got "beep .. beep .. beep .. beep". That's it. Just 4 beeps and a blank screen. Pulled out both modules and re-booted. Received the normal 1-3-3-1 beep sequence. Plugged a single 1GB module back in and 4 beeps again. Pulled out the battery, the hard drive and the memory and ran the laptop on AC only. 1-3-3-1 beeps again. Put the same 1GB module back in and.... 4 beeps. Removed that module and put the other 1GB in the other slot.... 4 beeps. Was about ready to throw the laptop across the room when for some reason I decided to try a 512MB module that I had just removed from another X60. System booted and displayed a "configuration error" message and had me hit the F1 key. BIOS settings looked okay but I re-loaded defaults anyway and saved the changes. Removed the 512MB module and returned the original two 1GB modules in the system and it booted. Re-installed the hard drive and everything is back to normal again.

I still have no clue why putting a different memory module in the system appears to have "fixed" it.

Four cycles of four short beeps and a blank screen = System board (Security chip). Perhaps changing modules reset the Security Chip? Sounds far fetched, but I can't think of another explanation. The good news is that if I ever get the four short beep error, I will try what you posted Ray.

It was only a single cycle of 4 beeps. I let the system sit for about a minute in that state and that's all there was. I did think about the security chip but can't for the life of me figure out what I could have done to trigger it (if indeed that's what it was), nor why putting a different memory module in the laptop appears to have cured it. My far fetched idea is that it might have to do with the CMOS battery. BIOS seemed to have awakened with a configuration error when I finally got a valid boot. The system is only three and a half years old (just went out of warranty this past May) so i don't expect the backup battery to be that bad.

Hi.

Ran across this old thread in trying to help someone else who just experienced a 4 beep code on their X60: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=97396

Now here is my explanation , you guys, and don't laugh. Let me say that this comes on the eve of one of my greatest conquests yet. I just bought a perfectly working 15" R60 1.83 GHZ in beautiful grade A cosmetic condition, complete except for battery and 1 cover on the back for $30 shipped from a certain corporate surplus reseller that I love to deal with. Now I know this guy is pretty tech savvy having tested and resold these off-lease laptops for years. He knows that most of these machines are coming from a working environment but hard drives and sometimes memory has been pulled. So all he has to do is find compatible memory modules to boot these to BIOS, run a few limited tests and resell them. I think he was just a bit hasty with this one because $30 is the price of a known dead and buried laptop. I won't tell you what I did to bring this baby back to life, but it has to do with memory sizes, manufacturer and configuration. And no, I don't feel bad since I've spent thousands of dollars over the years at this place. And no- I'm not going to email him and say, "Hey buddy, you know what I found out- this thing is working perfectly, beautiful screen, let me give you about $80 for this, please, I won't take no for an answer." After all, they're a huge wealthy corporate recycler and probably get these for $10 a piece. It's about time us little guys get a few breaks and make a few bucks

Just had to share that. Now- on to my very unscientific explanation of the x60 4 beep single cycle. I think Ray is on the right track. It has to do with the CMOS. Ray said all he did at first was remove the battery. He never touched the memory. As I said in another post, (about the Critical low battery error- http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=97096 and error 1802 http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=96766), I think that when a laptop is plugged in most of the time and the main battery is always charged and never removed from the machine- it can mask a weak or dying CMOS. Or- in this case, the CMOS is still perfectly good but some strange phenomenon occurs when the main battery is suddenly removed- the CMOS having "taken it easy" (told you I would be unscientific- don't laugh ) now has to stand on its own 2 feet again. I have no background nor knowledge whatsoever of electrical circuits but I think there must be some interaction between the CMOS and main battery, similar to a car battery that's allowed to die then suddenly comes back to life with a boost from a jumper cable and works fine for years to come.

So I think that when the CMOS was "jolted" by the removal of the main battery, the accepted memory settings were lost and certain default memory configuration settings were restored that the laptop is "comfortable" with. And with this generation of laptop don't be surprised if that means reverting to a 512mb module. So you (Ray) were very shrewd in removing both 1GB modules, replacing them, then trying 1GB in either slot by itself, then trying a 512mb module. Once it booted with the 512mb module, now you could transition back to the 2x1GB or 1x1GB configuration.

I've also observed that certain laptops prefer certain memory manufacturers. They won't initially boot with a certain 1GB module from a certain manufacturer (which works perfectly, mind you, and is from one of the main and well-respected quality memory manufacturers with the same density, speed, etc.). When it comes to memory, laptops can be like my cat at mealtime, very finicky.

I've had this kind of situation on Dell laptops where it came with 2x1GB PC2700 for example. I wanted those 2x1Gb modules LOL (since I was going to resell it cheap with 1GB total). So I put in 2x512mb PC2700 but it refused to boot. So I had to play around with it. Then, I've had the opposite situation. I've had laptops arrive which were listed as non-booting. I found 512mb modules inside. I put in 1Gb modules and they booted perfectly. And yes, after testing the 512mb modules, those were also perfectly good.

So, assuming it is the memory/CMOS interaction syndrome which I have just brilliantly described, and not some major problem with the main board, I would try different memory configurations (sizes/manufacturers- make sure you have an ample supply of different, tested, known good modules on hand- or you'll be spinning your wheels all day with flaky modules). At each step plug in the laptop and put back in the main battery (make sure it's a good battery), let it sit like 5 minutes to kick the CMOS in his little bottom, then try booting and let's hope for the best. Once you get it to work, unplug, remove the main battery and quickly- I emphasize quickly in case we have a weak or perfectly healthy CMOS that likes to go to sleep on us)- quickly change the memory to your desired configuration and you're back in business.

Whew, glad we solved that! (I hope). You know, as a youth pastor, I cannot underestimate the power of prayer in all of this. (I always say a prayer before I start working on any laptop- very unscientific but amazingly effective Let's not give up when a laptop has been running smoothly for years then suddenly develops a strange beep code when all we did was remove the battery or change the memory.

P.S. So we'll mark this issue as solved? (thanks to my brilliant "out of the box," unscientific reasoning ). Now, can someone make a post: "What to do? Laptop suddenly died. Kitty last seen at keyboard." I have a cat Tiger who likes to hang around my laptops way too much. She even likes to type on the keyboard. (So if you get any strange messages from me...) One day I think she'll be successful at doing in one of my favorite laptops. That seems to be her goal in life.

Daniel,
the little YP in NYC,
"We had pizza in the Lion's Den."

Wow, 10 months later and I had completely forgot about this happening on the X60. At the moment I'm not really sure which one it was. I keep one sitting on the dining room table, another one is with my daughter in L.A. and I have two more as spares. I think I noted which one gave me this problem and if so, that information is probably on a crashed disk that was in my home-based T23 .

The dining room X60 didn't boot up right last night. It powered up, presented the splash screen and then went black before the usual restore from hibernation progress bar would appear. I shut it off, restarted and it worked that time. No beeps of any kind. Chalked it up to a hard drive fault. The system is kept mounted on a dock and it's plugged into the wall 99% of the time. I'm assuming that the daughter's X60 is working as it should since I haven't received any IT-support calls from her . Now that I've read this thread, I think I'll try to boot all of the systems after first removing and re-installing the batteries later tonight and see what happens.

Based on the configuration error message I saw, I still believe that something in the CMOS got whacked. Whether it was from a degraded backup battery, a random disturbance in the force (alpha particle hit) or a weak memory cell. From experience with earlier systems, the CMOS battery can be removed as long as the main battery or AC adapter is connected and the contents of the CMOS memory will remain. I suppose it's possible that removing the main battery caused the backup battery to "work a little harder". Or it could have been a glitch on the power line that occurred when the main battery was removed. Why would changing the memory configuration fix this error? I don't know enough about the CMOS memory configuration to say but I would assume that somewhere in there is a bit or bits that declare how much memory is installed. If that setting doesn't match what POST finds, then "configuration error"? If this is the case, then a possible fix would be to pull the CMOS battery for a minute or so, put it back in and see if that gets rid of the 4 beep code. Of course you will need to reset the date and time and this also assumes that you know what the BIOS password is if it's been set. You wouldn't need to go through the trouble of finding some different-sized memory modules.

P.S. As to your cat "problem"... My three cats (1 DLH/Maine Coon calico and 2 DSH tuxedos) know better than to step on my computers. At least I think so . Just to make sure, I keep the Thinkpads on the desks 3/4 closed. That way they can't step on top of the lid and it's hard for them to get their little kitty paws on the keyboard. However, this does nothing to keep the DLH's fur from accumulating on everything! For that I wish I had trained her when she was a kitten to be brushed by the vacuum cleaner .

Hi again,

thanks for your response. I think this is a useful discussion as it may lead us to investigate further how great a role the CMOS battery and CMOS memory play in storing valuable BIOS configuration data... and how if, as you put it, the CMOS gets "whacked", it can cause a strange single 4 beep memory configuration error on bootup with an unfriendly blank screen.

rkawakami wrote:Now that I've read this thread, I think I'll try to boot all of the systems after first removing and re-installing the batteries later tonight and see what happens.

I think it'll be hard to duplicate this error on purpose as it seems to be related to a glitch in the CMOS battery and manifests itself on rare occasions. Having said that, in an attempt to duplicate your experience I removed the main battery and AC power from my X60 for a minute, leaving the memory just as it was, booted up and of course it booted just fine. I wanted to clear the CMOS memory stored in the system.

rkawakami wrote:From experience with earlier systems, the CMOS battery can be removed as long as the main battery or AC adapter is connected and the contents of the CMOS memory will remain.

So I unplugged the AC, removed the main battery, removed the CMOS battery for a couple of minutes, then reinstalled it. When I booted up it went into BIOS just fine after, of course, making me reset the date and time. But when I hit F10 to go into Windows XP the Windows logo appeared then a quick blue screen. I rebooted 2 or 3 times, only to be caught in the endless blue screen cycle. So I went into the BIOS settings and noticed the SATA setting had been toggled back to "AHCI", which I guess is the default. I switched it to "Compatibility" mode and the laptop booted right into Windows. So that was a pretty useless experiment, except to underscore the fact that certain important BIOS settings are stored in the CMOS memory and if the CMOS memory is lost the laptop will obviously revert back to its default BIOS settings.

rkawakami wrote:I don't know enough about the CMOS memory configuration to say but I would assume that somewhere in there is a bit or bits that declare how much memory is installed.

Exactly! That is no doubt one of the values stored in the CMOS memory. My guess is that when you unplugged the AC adapter and removed the battery it caused a small "surge" or "jolt" or "whack" to the CMOS which caused it to lose the memory configuration data. It happened either at that moment when you unplugged and removed the battery or at the moment when you put back in the battery and plugged back in the AC (as I said before I think systems that are left plugged in constantly with battery constantly charged would be more vulnerable to such a "dramatic" change in electrical current and that poor, pampered little CMOS battery may feel a sudden "jolt" in such a case) Just my theory... but let's follow the line of thought... Now, obviously the disturbance to the CMOS memory was limited or else you would have faced the date and time issue when you tried to reboot. Then again, who knows that the internal clock in your laptop didn't lose a few seconds? That's not something you would notice, especially once you go online and it re-calibrates to Internet time.

So if your laptop lost the "2GB memory is installed" setting in the CMOS memory data, then...

rkawakami wrote:If that setting doesn't match what POST finds, then "configuration error"?

Right. POST shows 2GB but CMOS memory (evidently) shows 512mb.

rkawakami wrote: Why would changing the memory configuration fix this error?

Since CMOS memory got whacked and the system reverted back to some default BIOS setting of 512mb (or whatever value it might be for a different laptop), then the easy fix is to tinker with memory configuration until POST finds that the memory installed matches what the BIOS settings declare. Otherwise, (Security system says) "Shut down system! Impostor! Security breach!" Who knows why it becomes such a critical error, but it does. In other words, "CMOS memory says there's 512mb memory installed, but POST says it's 2GB, I'm confused!" (computer talking), "Which one is it??!!"

So you ended up putting in 512mb after some experimentation, and once these values matched, the system was allowed to POST normally. Then you faced the "configuration error" message and you had to hit the F1 key, save settings, shut down and the memory could be adjusted back to 2GB. BTW, I don't think you ever had to remove your hard drive. I don't think that had anything to do with it.

rkawakami wrote: If this is the case, then a possible fix would be to pull the CMOS battery for a minute or so, put it back in and see if that gets rid of the 4 beep code...

Perhaps. We can't be sure because what seems to have happened is that the CMOS battery ended up skipping a beat, losing a moment in time, and losing important memory configuration data. When that value conflicts with the value reported in POST, the memory configuration error is triggered. So what will the system's reaction be to what seems to be a new CMOS battery being installed in an attempt to bypass this? Could this now be seen as a security breach and cause a permanent lock down of the system? I doubt it. Let's hope not

And I wonder how other systems are affected by this series of events besides the x60. And the question is if this memory configuration error (associated with a weak or momentarily "jolted" CMOS battery) manifests itself in different ways on different systems, instead of a mysterious four short beep error, just complete silence and a refusal to boot? Who knows how many people might have thrown in the towel on their laptops when there might be an easy fix: trying different memory configurations or, as Ray suggests, removing the CMOS to clear settings?

rkawakami wrote:P.S. As to your cat "problem"... My three cats (1 DLH/Maine Coon calico and 2 DSH tuxedos) know better than to step on my computers. At least I think so . Just to make sure, I keep the Thinkpads on the desks 3/4 closed. That way they can't step on top of the lid and it's hard for them to get their little kitty paws on the keyboard. However, this does nothing to keep the DLH's fur from accumulating on everything! For that I wish I had trained her when she was a kitten to be brushed by the vacuum cleaner

LOL. Well I don't know any cat who likes the sound of a vacuum cleaner. They just seem to be born spooked by it. When you open up your laptops to clean out the fans I wouldn't be surprised if you find some kitty fur, especially from that Domestic Long Hair. Kitty fur seems to get into everything

My cat Tiger is usually well-behaved but if I'm on the computer for a super long time (and completely ignore her), she will start walking all over the keyboard to get my attention. I think she would probably fit into the medium haired category. I call her Tiger because she has stripes just like a Tiger. My brother, sister and I found her outside our home one day. Someone had neglected the poor little thing and left her in an old abandoned tire. She was dirty, crying, and one eye was closed up I took her, gently cleaned out her eye and nursed her from a medicine dropper. Now she's grown so big, but maybe that's why she's still so attached to me. She just loves it when I get a delivery and can't wait to help me open up all my new computer purchases.

Daniel,
the little YP in NYC.
"We had pizza in the Lion's Den."

Very interesting.

A long time ago (end of last century) I was fiddling about with a screwdriver under the bonnet of my 760XL. I can't remember exactly what I was doing, but I know I was fiddling with prying the hard disk, and on the 760's I have owned if I recall they simply "plugged" in and out in a modular fashion.

Once after fiddling, I rebooted to be confronted with the Hard Disk Lock symbol asking me for a password to unlock the Hard Disk... the worrying thing was I'd never entered a password on the disk as I knew that once lost the disk would be trash along with my data.

I surmised that by fiddling with the screwdriver I activated some security (I am not sure if the 760XL had a TPM Security chip, but given this was a 1997 model perhaps not).

The Disk was toast

Sometimes it's just hard to explain why things happen!