Thinkpads Forum

jamesdin wrote:Is U-series a replacement for X-series Thinkpads?

Certainly not.

ThinkPads and IkeaPads are two separate lines for different markets.
Just like Transpiron and Lowattitude, or HP or Scumbag.

Oh boy...here we go...Well, the screens have been a joke since the loss of IPS.

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... eaPad-Y710

What exactly is VibrantView supposed to be? I like the idea of a 17" widescreen, but not at WXGA???? Is this some kind of joke?

It's actually WXGA+ 1440x900 which is fairly common amongst budget 17" notebooks. VibrantView is Lenovo speak for a glossy screen.

Mitchell wrote:I really hope that there's an option to get a trackpoint.

+1

Mitchell wrote:It seems like omitting the Trackpoint may be a branding mistake.

Clearly, a trackpoint will be a Lenovo trademark distancing itself from others. A so mistake is unbelievable

Yech... I am not a fan of this kind of flashy consumer-grade notebook.

I can understand why Lenovo needs this line of computers though. HP's home notebooks are top sellers, and Dell's XPS M1330 and 1530 have attracted a lot of attention.

It'll make Lenovo some nice $ I am sure, but I won't be buying one.

I think more important than the trackpoint is the potential upgradability of these notebooks.

CRAZYBUBBA wrote:

I think more important than the trackpoint is the potential upgradability of these notebooks.

I'm really not worried about that aspect and am sure it'll be handled appropriately...but...

No IPS LCDs (FlexViews) or for that fact any serious LCDs
No trackpoints

Why not go for an HP then ????

ajkula66 wrote:
No IPS LCDs (FlexViews) or for that fact any serious LCDs
No trackpoints

Why not go for an HP then ????

i think these notebooks were strictly designed for consumers. i mean how many people really use trackpoint? how many actually know or care about flexview? most seem to want ultra bright/glossy screen and that's what lenovo is going for... and also to compete with HP and Dell. the hinge design is another proof of it. they are trying to copy cat other consumer notebooks and add something of their own (such as face recognition etc).
i won't even bother with these notebooks and stick with thinkpads. and if the next generation will be as crappy as from what I read about T61 then I might get myself another T60.

PS: I have seen 17" with XGA resolution!

I assume it's a desktop monitor right? They usually have much worse resolutions than laptops LCDs. I tried to find one to support my 14" SXGA+ screen but I've learned there isn't any with the similar resolution and size. (17" 1440*900 was the best I could get) I was wondering if it's possible to use a laptop LCD plus its inverter and some sort of enclosure to make it an external monitor...

A laptop without the trackpoint, TP quality keyboard, batman color, ultrabay, customer-serviceable parts etc.. will never replace a ThinkPad. Hopefully their existence will bring some fresh air to the consumer-oriented laptop market.

PS: Does Lenovo have the right to use the trackpoint on non-thinkpad lines?

mattbiernat wrote:

ajkula66 wrote:
No IPS LCDs (FlexViews) or for that fact any serious LCDs
No trackpoints

Why not go for an HP then ????

i think these notebooks were strictly designed for consumers. i mean how many people really use trackpoint? how many actually know or care about flexview? most seem to want ultra bright/glossy screen and that's what lenovo is going for... and also to compete with HP and Dell. the hinge design is another proof of it. they are trying to copy cat other consumer notebooks and add something of their own (such as face recognition etc).
i won't even bother with these notebooks and stick with thinkpads. and if the next generation will be as crappy as from what I read about T61 then I might get myself another T60.

What's wrong with the IkeaPads? Nothing.
Last week I had a N200 machine with 12" widescreen in my hand. I liked it very much. Much more solid than I thought. No trackpoint, arrgh! Ok, but I could handle it. The keyboard was really good, better than the Acer or Fujitsu consumer crap.
IkeaPads are the mainstream consumer line and you don't carry them around. Maybe from bedroom to living room, otherwise they are a desktop replacement.

I am looking forward to see the 17" model. If they sell it with a higher resolution I would seriously consider it.
However, as a low-cost consumer notebook I understand that Lenovo has to keep costs down. Flexview is extremely niche and expensive. But a good X-Black screen would be great!

The IdeaPad Y710 is supposed to be the top-end gaming laptop, and it's equipped with a ATI Mobility Radeon HD2600 (256 MB). I've done some searching, and it seems like the FX 570M on the T61p still kicks the HD2600's [censored]. Why buy the IdeaPad if the T61p is a better gaming laptop?

Pocket Aces wrote:The IdeaPad Y710 is supposed to be the top-end gaming laptop,

I'm not sure I agree. I wouldn't call these IdeaPads gaming laptops. I hear the term "consumer laptop" thrown about a lot, but I don't like that word "consumer" either. The word "entertainment" seems to fit better. These are entertainment-oriented laptops aimed at the type of person who is not strongly business-oriented, who is not a hard-core gamer, who just wants to surf the web, watch a DVD now and then, listen to some music, play a few games, edit their home movies, that sort of thing. These machines don't need to be hardcore gaming machines to succeed. They need only be adequate.

Hardcore gamers will buy something different.

Hardcore business people will buy something different.

Hardcore video professionals will buy something different.

But there's probably a huge middle ground of people who just want to have some fun with their PCs. That's the target audience for these things.

But there's probably a huge middle ground of people who just want to have some fun with their PCs. That's the target audience for these things.

There definately is, but the price has to be below middle ground, it will be interesting to see where the price ranges are for these machines.

Kyocera wrote: There definately is, but the price has to be below middle ground, it will be interesting to see where the price ranges are for these machines.

absolutely right, Mike. Price is what will determine the success of these machines.

gator wrote:absolutely right, Mike. Price is what will determine the success of these machines.

Again, I don't agree. Price is important, but lots of factors need to come together here. These machines don't necessarily need to be the least-expensive option out there. Did Lenovo identify a target market that really exists? Did they correctly research what that market wants? Does the IdeaPad style and quality appeal to that market? Does the price match the perceived value from the purchaser's point-of-view?

Distribution is important too. People will go out of their way to buy Macbooks and Thinkpads, but I don't think that's going to be true of the target market for IdeaPads. At least as important a factor as price is going to be Lenovo's ability to get IdeaPads onto the shelves of big box stores like OfficeMax, Staples, Best Buy, Walmart, and so forth.

And then there's brand-image. Remember the image of Packard-Bell back in the late 1990s? That's definitely an image that Lenovo doesn't want. It's an image I'm sure they're carefully trying to avoid.

It's probably important for Lenovo to carve out some sort of "angle", or brand philosophy that customers will ultimately associate with the IdeaPad line. Think about that. The word "Thinkpad" conjures up a certain image. Likewise, in my mind at least, the idea of a Sony laptop brings to mind a certain combination of "high-style+proprietary memory stick+really thin+somewhat expensive+silvery". What image does Lenovo want IdeaPad to conjure up in people's minds? I'd love to have the inside story on the answer to that question. When I look at their 15" and 17" models, I see "muted simplicity". The designs are muted (i.e., not garish and flashy), the are simple (not too many extra buttons), but they cover ground in terms of features. OTOH, I get a completely different message from the 11" model. It's like Lenovo has a bit of schizophrenia going on right now with their IdeaPad line.

Lenovo's foray here into the consumer/entertainment market is going to be interesting to watch. Success depends upon much more than price. If they're successful in the long term, we'll have a richer and more interesting market with more choices. I just hope that Lenovo carve out a niche for themselves at the high end of the quality and durability scale, and not at the low end. I'd like to see the quality level of consumer laptops get taken up a notch or two.

JonathanGennick wrote: Again, I don't agree. Price is important, but lots of factors need to come together here.

Of course there are other factors, but I think the fact that Lenovo is offering only low-res screens for the 15.4" and 17" models and that they don't make much effort to minimize their weights (6.5 lbs and 7.9 lbs for these models) does suggest they are trying to keep these laptops as cheap as possible.

pianowizard wrote:Of course there are other factors, but I think the fact that Lenovo is offering only low-res screens for the 15.4" and 17" models and that they don't make much effort to minimize their weights (6.5 lbs and 7.9 lbs for these models) does suggest they are trying to keep these laptops as cheap as possible.

True enough. Hopefully not literally "as cheap as possible" , but I agree: Lenovo is going after a market here that doesn't place a premium on low-weight and high pixel-count. You're absolutely right about that.

I suspect that for many people, the extent of their analysis is: "I want a laptop". And then they go out and buy one that looks attractive to them. It's us aficionados who get all worked up about the details.

It's not a deterioration so much as a detraction and that should be clearly understood.

They're trying to reach a bigger market, which, since their current one is so crowded will hopefully bring in some extra prestige and money for the company to plough back in to research and it's other products. Personally I think they look better than the HP Pavillion Media laptops and that's a compliment. I would seriously consider buying the smallest 11'' one after I test the keyboard. I like that it has a slightly larger resolution than the X series.

so i guess with the onset of 17" ideapads we can't ever possibly expect 17" thinkpad. otherwise they would be cannibalizing their own sales...

actually i am concerned about upgradability. There doesn't appear to be the same break on the keyboard for easy upgradability and the machine looks to be built like a similar hp

Why deterioration of Thinkpad? Lenovo paid over a billion dollars for the brand - there's absolutely no reason for them to throw it away.

kevinjieu wrote:Why deterioration of Thinkpad? Lenovo paid over a billion dollars for the brand - there's absolutely no reason for them to throw it away.

I think we've just sort of latched onto this thread as a discussion thread, and we've wandered off-topic a bit. We should probably start some fresh threads.

As for me, I don't see any deterioration of brand at all here, and I rather like the IdeaPads (well, with the possible exception of that garish 11-inch model).

I see the IdeaPad brand dying off WAAAYY before the Thinkpad brand ever does. The Thinkpad is already firmly established and trusted. I know several large corporations that purchase exclusively from IBM/Lenovo for their employees.

Thinkpad
-Business users
-Plain, "professional" look (serves as a nice theft deterrent as well)
-No frills, all function

IdeaPad
-Mainstream consumers
-Stylish, shiny
-Unnecessary extra features, like 4.1 speakers, extra arrow keys, touch-sensitive volume controls, etc.

JonathanGennick wrote:

Pocket Aces wrote:

I could'nt agree more! The latest business statistics show that notebooks have overtaken desktop PC sales. Most folks do just internet surfing, some office stuff and their usual entertainment stuff (iPhoto, iMovie) etc, methinks.
But they want a big and BRIGHT screen (something that Thinkpads have never managed to do!!).
This iDeaPad is right on target with the mainstream home and SOHO domain, drives Lenovo's purchase power up and hopefully will lead to better ThinkPads prices, mehopes.

pianowizard wrote:

JonathanGennick wrote: Again, I don't agree. Price is important, but lots of factors need to come together here.

Of course there are other factors, but I think the fact that Lenovo is offering only low-res screens for the 15.4" and 17" models and that they don't make much effort to minimize their weights (6.5 lbs and 7.9 lbs for these models) does suggest they are trying to keep these laptops as cheap as possible.

Well, it depends. Not all people love high resolution. My father is beyond 75 and for christmas he gladly received a Thinkpad with 15" and XGA resolution (and still changes it to 800x600).

Watching a DVD does not require high resolution and to be honest, only recently I started preferring my old trusty T20 with XGA for casual internet surfing, because the 14" SXGA drives me crazy with the constant resizing of the font size for internet pages.

After doing some reading about Ideapads and Thinkpads... Having Ideapads for consumers and Thinkpads for business may not be bad at all considering that the two are targeting different consumers. My hope is that Lenovo continues with the tradition of keeping Thinkpads at the higher level it was meant to be.. Having the reliability (minus the fan noise) and being able to fix/upgrade your thinkpads with ease and replace parts is just amazing.

PS. I just read that the X61s will have the Penryn (yawn...) but that's another thread....

Lenovo needs to branch into the consumer market and these ideapads are a good way to do it. My work isn't buying thinkpads anymore because they want to purchase notebooks from an American company like DELL or HP and we buy literally thousands of notebooks.

Most other gov. agencies are doing the same. Funny thing is, most if not all of our fleet vehicles are Japanese hybrids like the prius and civic models so go figure...I guess there aren't many good American hybrid vehicles...

CJ

Riiiiiggght. Let's see, Dell has outsourced their tech support. Virtually none of the components are made in America. The computers are basically all built and assembled .... where Lenovo comes from!
HP is in the same sort of boat. Sure, the headquarters are nominally on American soil, but most of the stuff happens elsewhere.

I take it from your post you are also at another government agency....n
I guess it's just all for good PR. "Buy American!" ....yeah, it would actually do some good if it actually were American...

kevinjieu wrote:Why deterioration of Thinkpad? Lenovo paid over a billion dollars for the brand - there's absolutely no reason for them to throw it away.

They have, see the decision on IPS, and on other parts of build quality. They have effectively gotten rid of the option of buying into quality that is far better than what the other brands have.

JonathanGennick wrote: Hardcore gamers will buy something different.

Hardcore business people will buy something different.

Hardcore video professionals will buy something different.

Only if it exists. Try buying a 2623DDU T60p or any other IPS model. Now it's just a ton of widescreens(with some 4:3 models) with lower quality to them, with other cuts to quality made to them.

ajkula66 wrote: Why not go for an HP then ????

No IPS screen. Lesser quality designs. That is what you don't get on a T60p, much less on any Thinkpad. The only compromise would to allow for a post-purchase refit to IPS for those who want it.

The only thing that can be said is that the G Series has come back in disguise. This time, it's thin, unconfigurable, has 1440x900, and may not last as long. It has something signifcantly more than an integrated graphics chip with some power, but the rest of it falls short. It's a model that could have been better, but will never be.

sethstorm wrote:

The only thing that can be said is that the G Series has come back in disguise. This time, it's thin, unconfigurable, has 1440x900, and may not last as long. It has something signifcantly more than an integrated graphics chip with some power, but the rest of it falls short. It's a model that could have been better, but will never be.

Well, not all of G series had integrated graphics chip, notably hi-end G41 models with 15" SXGA+ LCDs had NVidia 64Mb and 128Mb dedicated graphic cards that were even removable, along with some serious raw P4 power, good enough to replace any desktop of its day. Lenovo has no intention of doing anything like that-the biggest IdeaPad is just an "entertainment centre" laptop. If they were to replace G series with something that would really take its place in today's world, I'd be the first one to buy it.

On another note, I believe you've misunderstood my HP comparison. Once you take away IPS screens (5 in my house at the moment) and keyboards, business-class HP machines are quite comparable. I've just configured a NW8000, which is a "A31p meets T42p" [censored], for a friend of mine, and it's a serious piece of equipment. Not my cup of tea, definitely, but a very respectable "desktop replacement" class machine. For people not crazy about FlexViews and trackpoints, this is hog heaven. To make myself perfectly clear, I'm addicted to both FlexViews and trackpoints.