"Fan Error" (X200) Motherboard or Fan? *SOLVED*

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TreyRust · #1 Post by **TreyRust** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:21 pm

So I've been doing some maintenance on my X200 recently. Once I had decided enough was enough (it was working) I put it back together and then I started getting "Fan Error". I noticed that -Since it was 3AM and I was really tired- the keyboard was in with the front drains over the palmrest. Upon further inspection I found that the wires to the fan are right where a screw goes to the keyboard and it appears that one of the wires on the headshrink got smushed.

I took the fan out, clipped the wires where it was smushed, and I re-soldered them all with new heatshrink. Nothing happened.

So, I would think that if it is the fan, it's because the tach on the mobo isn't getting the proper resistance to do it's thing.

The fan doesn't -spin at all- at any point in time. Not even when I first power it on.

I've volt-metered a lot of parts, the fan header and the wires. A few fuses on the board and nothing. My volt-meter isn't digital so I can't get the proper resistance however.

I've read somebody on here say that you can ruin a fan by blowing into to hard? If that's the case then problem solved...

I've got a fan coming in the mail, it should be here tomorrow so hopefully I can put this to rest then... I'll keep you guys updated. *Fingers Crossed*

TreyRust · #2 Post by **TreyRust** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:35 pm

Got the fan, it was too small

Blowing into the fan while it's starting up does nothing either.

EOMtp · #3 Post by **EOMtp** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:59 pm

Does the original fan spin with an external power source? I don't see in your notes that you have verified integrity of the formerly broken wire(s). If you have not, then disconnect the fan from the motherboard, apply to it the necessary voltage from an external power source to the fan connector (so you can test continuity from that point), and see if it spins. It sounds to me like you have the skills to run that test. Good luck!

#4 Post by **richk** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:23 pm

I have not examined X200 boards, but many of the fuses for the fans on other models of the same age are on the bottom. If they are labled, they are usually "F4"

TreyRust · #5 Post by **TreyRust** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:26 pm

richk wrote:I have not examined X200 boards, but many of the fuses for the fans on other models of the same age are on the bottom. If they are labled, they are usually "F4"

Ah, I looked real hard after reading this and found a tiny blue fuse. Right above it there was some white text that says "F4", there's also an "N" on it. So I tested it with my volt-meter and I didn't get anything. More specifically I got a tiny little bit of continuity but like I said I don't have a digital volt-meter so I can't accurately tell how much there is, but I image there should be quite a bit?

I was about to order a new fan, but should I focus more on this fuse first? I'm confident that I could replace it by hand, but I still have a warranty on this machine, do you think I should send it in?

EOMtp wrote:Does the original fan spin with an external power source? I don't see in your notes that you have verified integrity of the formerly broken wire(s). If you have not, then disconnect the fan from the motherboard, apply to it the necessary voltage from an external power source to the fan connector (so you can test continuity from that point), and see if it spins. It sounds to me like you have the skills to run that test. Good luck!

Just tried this before reading your post. Since they're brushless I'm not sure how much you can tell by doing this without an actual controller. But I "touch tested" it with a AA, which is only 1.5V but I would assume if it worked out all it would at least jump?

I also swapped the header (the one on the fan) from the original fan with the teeny tiny fan I bought and also got nothin'. Both from testing it with a (weak) AA and after trying to use it in the board. Although, I did test it AFTER I put it in the computer so it may have shorted then?

Sorry for my wording, had a long day and I'm really really tired. Thanks for the help though!

#6 Post by **richk** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:46 pm

It should have zero resistance on any meter. There is probably a capacitor in parallel so you will show temporary continuity. Don't try to change it unless you have a good rework station. The lead-free solder melts at a VERY high temperature and it is a multi-layer board. You need at least a quartz preheater and a very good hot-air station. Otherwise, you will make a mess. Caution: They don't consider the fan to be a Customer-replacable part, so you may have an issue with a warranty repair

Brad · #7 Post by **Brad** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:49 pm

TreyRust wrote:I was about to order a new fan, but should I focus more on this fuse first? I'm confident that I could replace it by hand, but I still have a warranty on this machine, do you think I should send it in?

Say no more.

Put all your tools away, carefully reassemble and make the call.

This is a "no brainer".

Chalk it up to fun while it lasted and let's get back to work.

Brad

TreyRust · #8 Post by **TreyRust** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:13 pm

richk wrote:It should have zero resistance on any meter. There is probably a capacitor in parallel so you will show temporary continuity. Don't try to change it unless you have a good rework station. The lead-free solder melts at a VERY high temperature and it is a multi-layer board. You need at least a quartz preheater and a very good hot-air station. Otherwise, you will make a mess. Caution: They don't consider the fan to be a Customer-replacable part, so you may have an issue with a warranty repair

I've messed with the solder on a chip that I thought got corroded after I spilled water on it in the past (LONG before this current incident). I remember it being a pain in ye donkey but it was a million pin one.

Brad wrote:Say no more.

Put all your tools away, carefully reassemble and make the call.

This is a "no brainer".

Chalk it up to fun while it lasted and let's get back to work.

Brad

BUT the only reason I ask if I should do it myself is wondering after snipping the fan, spilling water on it and scraping/soldering a random chip on the mobo (Not necessarily in that order) if they would actually do anything for me rather than laugh and send it back?

Should I order a new fan (with the correct FRU) and pop it in before sending it to them? I also got an extra pack of screws off of ebay because I lost a couple (as if that's the thing they'll notice).

#9 Post by **richk** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:49 pm

I think the fan motor needs 5 volts. If I am right, I doubt 1.5 would make it jump.

If you "fixed" it first, they won't touch it

TreyRust · #10 Post by **TreyRust** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:11 pm

richk wrote:I think the fan motor needs 5 volts. If I am right, I doubt 1.5 would make it jump.

If you "fixed" it first, they won't touch it

I'll test the fan again with a better battery.

I took another look at the chip I messed with a while back and made two conclusions: (1) I can't believe I was able to do that and (2) it's so small and obscure I doubt they'd be able to tell I did it. Besides, it's on the other side of the board, opposite of the fan.

The other thing is, there are signs of water. A bit of corrosion on some of the USB/VGA ports. I fixed the "water damage" by cleaning the contacts (on the aforementioned chip) with rubbing alchohol, the reason I went on to solder it was somehow my master boot record got screwed and I thought it was still the motherboard... But that portion is working now.

Or are you talking about the fan? In which case I highly doubt they'd mess with it because it's quite obvious I messed with it... So I'll order a replacement -with the proper FRU this time-

#11 Post by **richk** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:39 pm

I meant the solder and the water. The examine under strong magnification

TreyRust · #12 Post by **TreyRust** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:45 pm

richk wrote:I meant the solder and the water. The examine under strong magnification

So should I bother sending it to them then or is it worth a shot?

TreyRust · #13 Post by **TreyRust** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:24 am

An update:

Found a battery (out of a camcorder), it was 3.7(?) volts and the fan fired up! So that's discouraging and encouraging at the same time...

For some reason the fuse has less resistance now... It's almost as if when I scratch the top of it, it gets better continuity... But it's probably just a cap or I'm just jolting it enough to make slight contact or something...

So, I'd say it's the fuse... If they won't take it I guess I'll order one and see what happens. Is it a common enough fuse that I could find it on something else?

Edit: Although now that I think about it, I don't think I'd want to use a donor fuse, since it's a pain enough to replace as it is I don't want to risk putting a bad one back in.

#14 Post by **richk** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:49 am

The fuse is made by "Littlefuse". They used to be available from mouser.com in small (not a 5000 fuse roll) quantities, but I think they are no longer available. I harvest them from other boards if I need them, after testing them. The letter on top is the designation (voltage, current, speed-of-blow)

TreyRust · #15 Post by **TreyRust** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:14 pm

I looked on mouser.com and found this: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lit ... 252b%2fluk

That is the right fuse, correct? I'm assuming it's the same "F4" as the one listed here: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=85964 And that that's the one I need.

I typed a custom quantity and it gave me a price in the cart so I guess they still sell them in small quantities -That and it says "Min.: 1"-.

#16 Post by **richk** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:57 pm

I think you might need a bigger fuse on an X200 than on an x61. If I remember, the "N" designation is 2 amps. This datasheet is for a fuse that is 3.2mm long. Is that right for you? (I cannot see the board)
http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Data_ ... asheet.pdf

Look at this page: (long URL)

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/browse ... 1214%2B502

Some people report success attaching a 2nd fuse to the top of the burned one. (piggyback) That method is good if you are replacing the fuse without a good preheater

TreyRust · #17 Post by **TreyRust** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:59 pm

I got out some calipers, they are in .001ths of an inch so if my conversions are right, the fuse is 1.4mm.

I'm planning on doing the piggyback style, there's absolutely no reason for my to go through the headache (and possible heartache) of trying to remove the old one with my current setup.

TreyRust · #18 Post by **TreyRust** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:34 pm

Alright, so after you brought it up, I did a little research and comfirmed that the "N" fuse is always 2A/32V. After checking my math I confirmed the dimensions and have concluded that this one should fill the shoes:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lit ... i148JvY%3d

I'm gonna go ahead and order some.

TreyRust · #19 Post by **TreyRust** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:03 pm

Alrighty, she's up and runnin' again!

The solder job isn't as pretty as I wanted it to be, but the fuse wasn't as big as I wanted it to be either.

I'm really impressed with mouser, they shipped really fast as well, I didn't think I'd get them until tomorrow when I factored in thanksgiving. I'll definitely be using them in the future.

So, she's almost all back together... Still have trackpoint issues of my doing, but I'm about to buy a new keyboard to fix that. At this point I'm just happy I didn't have to spend $300 on a new motherboard.

I'm glad I've got a thinkpad, after the hell I've put this one through I would have sold a macbook for scrap 6+ months ago.

Thanks for all your help!

dliuzzi · #20 Post by **dliuzzi** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:09 pm

Hey TreyRust,

Do you happen remember approximately where F4 is on the board? I had the *exact same thing* happen to me today. I replaced the fan. Everything was going smoothly; the new fan would properly kick on POST while my X200's guts were still out. So I proceed to put everything back together and the fan never worked again. I take everything apart again and discover one of the screws went right through the new fan cables. Like you, my fuse must have blown up, because now neither the new fan nor the old one would work. They wouldn't even kick on POST (I get "Fan Error" on every boot). It's so frustrating thinking that if the cable was 1 mm away my X200 would work perfectly now.

Anyway... I went through the whole board several times and, for the life of me, I can't find F4. I see markings labeled F1, F2, F3, F7, F5, X1, X2, etc. Everything except F4! I took a photo of my MB which you can see at http://imgur.com/AJlZnWV.

Also, what is the recommended way of testing for continuity on these fuses? On my digital multi meter I can select 2000k, 200k, 20k, 2000, and 200 ohms, but I'm not sure which one is the safest to use. I wouldn't want to blow up anything else today...

Any help or insight will be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

#21 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:49 pm

Most multimeters have the option to send a beep if the two probes touch.
Put a probe on each fuse side, if it beeps, the fuse should be good.
Make sure though to remove battery and charger first!

#22 Post by **rkawakami** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:42 pm

I'm of the opinion that lowest ohms range provides the most accurate measurement, while still being fairly safe. Even though the lowest ohms range typically supplies more voltage across the leads of the multimeter (and thus, the circuit on the motherboard) than the higher ohms ranges, what I've seen on my three multimeters says that it's lower than the voltage that the beep / buzzer settings on the meters generate.

ref: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 47#p771647

dliuzzi · #23 Post by **dliuzzi** » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:00 pm

Thank you so much RealBlackStuff and rkawakami for your replies. I have now ordered a new CPU cooler and a soldering station with a magnifying glass (those fuses are TINY). By any chance, do you know where the fan fuse is, or have any idea how to locate it on the board?

Thinkpaddict · #24 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:52 pm

I wanted to add my experience with this. I have been using my X200 for about 1 1/2 years now. Two months ago, I got a "Fan Error" on boot, and it wouldn't start up. I tried removing the battery and running it off the AC adapter, but it didn't work.

Finally, I remembered that some issues in Thinkpads could be solved by holding the power button with the battery out for a while, so I did it, and it booted up. I didn't have any issue until this morning.

Well, I immediately tried the power button trick, and it worked again (I'm typing from my X200).

It almost sounds as if there might be a capacitor involved, and not sure why my X200 started doing this after 1 1/2 years.

Has anyone experienced something like this before, specifically with the "Fan Error" issue going away with the Power button trick?

Thinkpaddict · #25 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:01 pm

After doing this very intermittently (about 4 or 5 times) in the past 3 months, my trick of holding the power button didn't work.

I have been able to circumvent the Fan Error message by pushing the Esc key when it appears, and then the computer boots up. However, the fan doesn't work (I was doubting whether it might be a sensor issue or an actual fan/fuse issue).

Given the symptoms, what is it more likely to be, the fan itself or a fuse? The fact the power button trick work is indicative more of a fuse issue? I have no voltmeter and no soldering gun or soldering experience.

BTW, so far the computer runs OK with passive cooling in an air conditioned environment. I have a watch on the CPU core and HD temperatures.

Things get out of control when running an intensive process, which I need to avoid.

Thinkpaddict · #26 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:45 pm

I ran it without the fan, then shut it down.

A few hours later it booted up with no problem. No fan error. Then it booted twice again (once yesterday and once this morning) with no fan error.

I'm not sure what's going on, except that perhaps it's the fuse, and it's sensitive to specific environment conditions (temperature, humidity, pressure?)

prgtrdr · #27 Post by **prgtrdr** » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:41 am

Thinkpaddict wrote:I ran it without the fan, then shut it down.

A few hours later it booted up with no problem. No fan error. Then it booted twice again (once yesterday and once this morning) with no fan error.

I'm not sure what's going on, except that perhaps it's the fuse, and it's sensitive to specific environment conditions (temperature, humidity, pressure?)

Take a look at this post I just put up. It sounds like you might have the same problem as me.

When the machine overheats, I assume the fan is not running.
Just curious, have you updated your BIOS recently? Could the problem have started then?

"Fan Error" (X200) Motherboard or Fan? SOLVED

"Fan Error" (X200) Motherboard or Fan? SOLVED

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