X301 vs Initial X1 Carbon

[u751920]

Just wondered if there was any user of the X301 who has bought an X1 Carbon and could tell me their views on the two laptops.
They seem pretty close dimension wise.
I'm not that keen on the island key board.

I like the idea of a faster processor but to be honest I've only ever thought of a laptop as sort of a light usage device - the desktop has always done the more intensive tasks. Seems I will probably wait until production gets well under way before upgrading.

Thanks

[bdoviack]

Feel weird reviving an old thread but I have an update to the original question. My revised question is "keep X301 or keep X1 Carbon"?

I've been using the X301 for over 4 years now and it's performed admirably. Being in the tech field, I thought 4 years on a lightweight laptop, it would be time to upgrade to something more powerful like the X1 Carbon. I just received my X1 Carbon last week and am now on the fence what I should do.

X301 Pros
"Just works". The des.ign is rock-solid and reliable. Has all the ports you need and even a DVD-ROM when needed.
Feels better in the hand than the X1. I think the X1 has actually become too thin. The X301 feels just right. Not too thin or too thick.
Thinklight. I think the backlight is quite bad on all the new ThinkPads. The backlight only looks good when viewing the keyboard directly overhead. When used in a regular typing position, you see the backlight shining through all the gaps in the keys and not the actual letter. Seems this was a "me too" feature added to compete with Apple

X301 Cons
Can't pick out any major flaws in the X301, just that it is getting old and the lack of CPU power sometimes shows through. As today's media becomes more processor intensive (more HD videos), faster streaming, it would be nice to have a bit more "oomph"
Best speakers/sound in a modern laptop. The X301 still has the richest set of speakers I've experienced in a notebook. Maybe it's because they're on the top of the palm rest and not

X1 Carbon Pros
Obviously the speed boost is nice but not dramatic over the X301.
Bigger touch pad is handy

X1 Carbon Cons
My biggest pet peeve of the X1 is the lack of any "true" port replicator or docking options. As the X1 has not many ports, you're forced to use a USB-based port replicator. The port replicator duplicates the mouse, keyboard and ethernet ok, but the video output is not very good. You get a lot of ghosting and pixelation not to mention extra CPU usage. Forget watching any HD fast motion video.
Sound is quite tinny on the X1
Keyboard backlight (see backlight topic above in X301 pros)
Powersupply. The powersupply connector just doesn't look or feel solid. Prefer the old barrel-style connector

Overall I'm still on the fence on what to do. Maybe I'll give it a few more days and the answer will present itself to me

[dr_st]

You do know, that the X301 also doesn't have any true port replicator options?

Furthermore, with X1 Carbon you at least have USB3, and can use USB3 docking stations (like the new Targus model). Reviews show it is actually capable of delivering good enough video throughput for most cases (unlike USB3).

With X301 you don't even have an ExpressCard slot, so you can't even add USB3.

[bdoviack]

You are correct that the X301 has no true port replicator options. I am able though to plug in 2 monitors (via DP and VGA ports) and a true Gigabit Ethernet connection.

I also purchased the Lenovo 3.0 docking station with the USB 3.0 "SuperSpeed interface". It works ok for static video images but if you push any video through it, the image starts to pixelate and get jaggy. Seems that you cannot still fully replicate (in real time) a true HD video signal via USB. Additionally, the USB conversion takes up about 30% of the processor (which was not that beefy to begin with).

Don't get me wrong. The X1 Carbon is a great machine. The only real benefit I see is a faster processor which is not always needed in an ultralight.

The one major advantage the X301 still has over many laptops is the speaker quality. Those palm-rest speaker on the X301 are great. Mid-tones like vocals sound smooth and silky. On the X1 Carbon voices sound tinny and lack depth and warmth. I did play with the "Dolby Equalizer" but that didn't help much. Seems you can't replace true speakers (as far as laptops go) with software.

[gaia]

I’ve just replaced two X300 with a T430s & an X1 for my kids. I have a 4 yo X301 in mint condition. I’m not keen on the island keyboard, but it wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me. (I forgot to select the backlit keyboard option which might have been a good miss).

I personally much prefer the X301 to both the X1 & T430s and my wife's MacBook Air. And I like the T430s better than the X1 as the X1 feels a bit too thin & flimsy. My one & only criticism of the X301 is that I can’t add USB 3. My X301 has been upgraded to 8GB RAM & 256GB SSD.

I’ve had portable computers since 1983 & always buy the maximum spec possible. Up until the X301 I used to replace my portable every 12 to 18 months, but with the X301 I can’t see myself ever replacing it unless it irreparably dies.

[pianowizard]

I’ve just replaced two X300 with a T430s & an X1 for my kids.

Did you mean the X1, or the X1 Carbon? They are two completely different models.

[Edmond Dantes]

After 3.5 years with my X301, I just switched to a X1 Carbon with Win 7, 256GB SSD end 8GB RAM.
Well, first of all, I must say that the X301 is the best ThinkPad I've ever had. It has performed very good over these years, with zero problems; and it has worked with me at least 12 hours each day. Light, fast as much as I need, nice keyboard and screen, right form-factor, fantastic SSD. Very well done, Lenovo!
Just in the end, it has started being hot at the left side, and the fan has become a little noisy. It has also survived a chaute from an height of 1 m without problems.

I've not yet tested the X1C at work, with the port replicator, but I think I can make a fair comparison with the X301 anyway.
First af all, according to me, the X1 Carbon has a far better screen, bright and clear.
Then, build quality and materials seem to be better on the X1C.
I'm getting used to the island keyboard, wich I found to be very precise, and overall superior if compared to the one of the X301.
Another "pro" of the X1c is the touchpad. Again, I'm getting used to it, but I can aleready feel that I could'nt go back to other "normal" touchpads.

What about the cons? Well, the X301 was a masterpiece of engineering, integrating a DVD player, RJ45 connector, VGA connector, Display-port and 3 USB ports in such a small machine; the X1C offers less in terms of connectivity.
The sound is another point for X301. X1C has loudspeakers under the body, and the sound comes out suffocated and distorted, while the sound of X301 was simply perfect.

All in all, I must say I'm satisfied with the purchase of the X1C, which seems to be a worthy substitute of my X301; I just want to see how it performs over the years, and if the lack of some features (mainly DVD and VGA) will be a problem.

Regards

Edmond

[lead_org]

I got the X301 and the X1 Carbon, along with X2x0 machines.

There is definite speed advantages from the faster CPU and SSD. But you lose out on upgradability, the only thing you can upgrade on the X1C is the SSD, which uses a rare connector type which makes buying parts extremely hard. I really wished the ThinkPad X1C had a removable RAM and uses mSATA for SSD.

[martin6115]

Hello Gaia!

My X301 has been upgraded to 8GB RAM & 256GB SSD.

What SSD did you use? I am looking for some fast SSD which would fit into my X301, but cannot find one. I was considering OCZ vertex 2, but thenI read post from a guy who claims it does not work (http://www.thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopi ... 43&t=91919).

While we are talking about upgrades, what memory did you use?

Thanks,
Martin

[ZaZ]

The X301 uses a 1.8" form factor SSD, which the Agility 2 is not and it won't fit. They're not making many more 1.8" SSDs these days and most makers have switched to mSATA SSDs for use in smaller notebooks and ultrabooks. A used Intel 320 might be a good choice.

[gaia]

Hello Gaia!

My X301 has been upgraded to 8GB RAM & 256GB SSD.

What SSD did you use? I am looking for some fast SSD which would fit into my X301, but cannot find one. I was considering OCZ vertex 2, but thenI read post from a guy who claims it does not work (http://www.thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopi ... 43&t=91919).

While we are talking about upgrades, what memory did you use?

Thanks,
Martin

For the SSD, a Crucial C300 256GB & for the memory 2 x 4GB Crucial.

Have a look at this thread for SSD advice http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=97946

[martin6115]

For the SSD, a Crucial C300 256GB & for the memory 2 x 4GB Crucial.

Hello Gaia,

thanks for your fast answer - I did not really think somebody is still reading this thread.

Crucial C300 256GB - is it this one?
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storag ... d-review/1

If so, I am wondering:
1) Is it 1.8" drive, or something else and you used some kind of conversion?
2) Crucial C300 256GB runs on SATA 6Gbps while X301 supports only SATA 3Gbps (AFAIK). What is the sequential read/write you get?

Currently I have SAMSUNG MMCRE28G8MXP-0VBL1 VBM19C1Q 128 GB SSD:
Sequential Read 221 MB/s
Sequential Write 30 MB/s

When my Samsung was new, it was delivering write speed at > 100 MB/s. It degraded over the time, even TRIM is turned on. Read speed is still about the same.

Thanks,
Martin

[gaia]

For the SSD, a Crucial C300 256GB & for the memory 2 x 4GB Crucial.

Hello Gaia,

thanks for your fast answer - I did not really think somebody is still reading this thread.

Crucial C300 256GB - is it this one?
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storag ... d-review/1

If so, I am wondering:
1) Is it 1.8" drive, or something else and you used some kind of conversion?
2) Crucial C300 256GB runs on SATA 6Gbps while X301 supports only SATA 3Gbps (AFAIK). What is the sequential read/write you get?

Currently I have SAMSUNG MMCRE28G8MXP-0VBL1 VBM19C1Q 128 GB SSD:
Sequential Read 221 MB/s
Sequential Write 30 MB/s

When my Samsung was new, it was delivering write speed at > 100 MB/s. It degraded over the time, even TRIM is turned on. Read speed is still about the same.

Thanks,
Martin

<< Crucial C300 256GB - is it this one? http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storag ... d-review/1>>
Yes

<<Is it 1.8" drive>>
Mine is 1.8”. I think that it might have come in two versions: 1.8” & 2.5”.

<< What is the sequential read/write you get?>>
No idea, I’ve never tried to measure it & ditto for the memory. Subjectively, my X301 is well fast enough for me.

Have a look at the thread tiltled “The definitive X301 SSD upgrade thread” at viewtopic.php?f=43&t=97946

[martin6115]

Have a look at the thread tiltled “The definitive X301 SSD upgrade thread” at viewtopic.php?f=43&t=97946

I read through it, interesting reading.

I ordered Crucial M500 240GB mSATA (http://www.alza.sk/crucial-m500-240gb-d456996.htm) and Lycom ST-170m mSATA SSD to 1.8" converter (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-st ... -converter). It should arrive at Thursday, I let you know whether I was able to make it work.

Meanwhile, did you see some (subjective) performance improvement when you switched to 8 GB RAM?

Thanks,
Martin

[gaia]

[/quote]Meanwhile, did you see some (subjective) performance improvement when you switched to 8 GB RAM?[/quote]

With 4GB free memory would go to zero when copying large files & with 8GB that doesn't happen.

[martin6115]

It should arrive at Thursday, I let you know whether I was able to make it work.

I successfully installed Crucial M500 240GB (http://www.alza.sk/crucial-m500-240gb-d456996.htm, 153 EUR + VAT) into X301 using Lycom ST-170m mSATA SSD to 1.8" converter (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-st ... -converter, around 15 EUR + VAT, includes shipping).

Benchmark done under Linux using "iozone -I -s 500m -r 4096k -i 0 -i 1":
Seq R: 265 MB/s
Seq W: 251 MB/s

Notes:
* Transfer rates above are close to 3 GBit/s theoretical maximum of SATA II used in X301 (some folks claim it should be around 280 MB/s)
* I installed Crucial M500 because it seems to support HW encryption, while BIOS SATA HDD password is used as a (part) of the key, see http://vxlabs.com/2012/12/22/ssds-with- ... ncryption/, comment from JohnS at August 15, 2013 at 20:21

Thanks,
Martin

[gaia]

Well, my X301 has finally died after 8 years. Initially white screen & now it's broken its SSD, so I suspect that the motherboard is kaput.

Looking at a replacement I've considered:
1. Lenovo X1 Carbon
2. Dell XPS 13
3. MacBook 12"

I've previously bought an X1 Carbon & I looked at the XPS 13. Neither of them is as good as the X301, so I've decided to get (& ordered today) a MacBook. And the MacBook is 16:10 like the X301, which I prefer to the 16:9 of the XPS & X1.

The end of an era.

Note that I still have a T430s, 2 other working X301 currently being used by my adult student kids & 2 X300 (all running Windows 10 Pro) which I'll keep as backups & if the MacBook works out l'll get two more of them for my kids & they can use their X301 as backups. My wife continues to love her mid 2011 MacBook Air.

[martin6115]

Hello Gaia!

I've previously bought an X1 Carbon & I looked at the XPS 13. Neither of them is as good as the X301, so I've decided to get (& ordered today) a MacBook.

After you use your MacBook for 3 or so months, let me know how happy you are with it comparing to other Thinkpads, especially X301 and T430s.

Recently I bought T460s in top config (20 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD). It is a decent machine, main drawback (from my point of view) is slightly worse track point and keyboard (compared to X301).

X301 I upgraded in 2013 (see above) still works, used daily by my wife. It is great machine.

Regarding Crucial M500 240GB performance, write speed degraded over the time (similar to my previous SAMSUNG MMCRE28G8MXP-0VBL1 VBM19C1Q 128 GB SSD):
iozone -I -s 500m -r 512k -i 0 -i 1 -i 2
Seq R: 245 MB/s (originally 265 MB/s, 92%, see above)
Seq W: 198 MB/s (originally 251 MB/s, 78%, see above)

Btw. are you aware of Thinkpad Retro initiative?
http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-th ... e-machine/

Martin

[RealBlackStuff]

Btw. are you aware of Thinkpad Retro initiative?
http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-th ... e-machine/

Once you've read the more than 30 pages of this "Retro-thread": Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)
you'll notice that interest has fallen dramatically, due to Lenovo's inability or unwillingness to keep people informed.
Not to mention the utter rubbish they have produced in the last 3-4 years

[sanjuro]

I tried to follow but gave up after a while. Amount of useful content drops off exponentially. At this time have very little expectation but who knows.