Page 1 of 1

screen brightness and ultranav problems

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:29 am
by cfds
I have been struggling since I have this Tablet with these irritating issue's where I loose the ability to adjust the screen brightness. I cannot really tell when or what triggers it but the result is that the brightness buttons don't work. Also the option to adjust the screen brightness found in windows mobility center is gone then.
Simultaneously I also loose the setting I made in ultranav, I have the option "momentum" enabled in the touchpad button property and this setting I also loose.
Up to today I never realized that I was losing both setting - touchpad and screen brightness at the same time. Its just today that I tried to rollback the display driver that I realized that the touchpad setting was gone to.
I downloaded the latest display/video driver on the lenovo site - installed it and got back the touchpad setting without me going in to these settings. So they seem to be connected on or the other way...
Last weekend in a final attempt to solve this issue I reinstalled windows 7 using the Lenovo DVD's so I a working with a fresh windows 7 pro installation. But the same issue's are present...

The patient is a X2O1 Tablet.

Hope somebody has some idea's as if not I will sell the [censored] thing. Having to restart the PC in order to adjust the screen brightness is raising my blood pressure.

Re: screen brightness and ultranav problems

Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 2:17 am
by cfds
2 months further now...
The Tablet is currently up for sale as the problem continued.

My X201 started doing the same thing, although only the screen brightness issues. (sold also)
And now the T420 is doing it (been using it very intense lately) and it seems to happen if I keep the computer on for a long periods only putting it into sleep mode in between. Taking it out of sleep mode I cannot adjust screen brightness sometimes, its not always and up to now I cannot pinpoint the "trigger" of the problem.

All of them are running on SSD's with the legal Win 7 pro. All of them have all the proper drivers installed, OSD and hotkey's - power manager working.

Just received a X220 and hope this one is not "affected" as this problem really annoys me. Having very light sensitive eyes I have to dim the display under low light conditions...

My wifes X230 does not seem affected so far.

Re: screen brightness and ultranav problems

Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am
by cfds
Update: the X220 I received yesterday does exactly the same. After taking the computer out of sleep I lost the ability to adjust screen brightness. It cannot be that this is a software or hardware problem and that all the lenovo's I have are affected?
I start to believe that it is a result of the way I setup my battery/power manager?

Anybody other idea's here?

Neither can X201s control screen brightness. Way to kill a brand, Lenovo.

Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 8:18 am
by automobus
You are not alone. This problem walks the line between hardware and software. Yes, "this is a software or hardware problem" in many models. I believe LeNOvo produces electronicrap compujunk.

Until ten years ago, one of the engineering decisions which made ThinkPad, ThinkPad, was hardware functions controlled by Embedded Controller (EC). And, BIOS/firmware which was generally superior. Screen brightness and audio amplifier controls (wheel, slider, keyboard, or dedicated volume button) were seemingly 'hard controls'. By 'hard controls' I mean, they worked such that they were indistinguishable from hardware control.

Let me go into more detail about audio volume control in 'ThinkPad 2000'. Volume buttons in lovely X22 and X30 were not actually literal hard-implemented hardware controls, but 'digital buttons'. To be true pureblood hard-control, would require being wired to DAC. They were wired to Embedded Controller, same as keyboard matrix. The EC is a computer embedded inside of the larger 'IBM ThinkPad Personal Computer'. So even if: video games made Intel processor overheat and freeze, malware made Windows crash, hardware fault or scratched CD leads to half-second of audio stuck in a loop; volume buttons still work, allow user to change volume. It is of course possible for EC software to crash, but I never read any report of such occurrence. In 'ThinkPad 2000', mute means mute. And brightness keys control brightness.

Off topic: Apple laptops are opposite. Since first PowerBook, brightness and other hardware functionality is controlled by OS/software. IIRC, I think I read something like: brightness buttons produce an interrupt, so that during low battery condition, despite user's desire, System Software knows better and limits brightness to low. (Something like that. Not a quote. Do not believe me.)

It would seem, ThinkPad 2000 contains Renesas H8S/216x Embedded Controller, and ThinkPad 2006 contains Renesas H8S/2116V. In T61 and X61 models ('ThinkPad 2007'), mute does not mean mute. Those three volume buttons, ThinkVantage button, and keyboard matrix, all go to EC, like ever. EC takes key presses and outputs PC AT keyboard events ('PS/2 bus'), like ever. But unlike ThinkPad 2000, EC does not send message to DAC when volume buttons pressed; EC treats volume buttons same as keyboard keys. Now, it is up to Operating System or user software to do something. ThinkPad volume buttons are no different than external HID (human interface device).
  • Sometimes, volume mixer code will be swapped/paged-out, so there is a few-second delay before mute means mute.
  • Sometimes, user thinks "huh, nothing happened, I'll press it again", so by the time software reacts, mute means 'mute and immediately un-mute'.
  • Sometimes, an application will request HID volume events and OS hands them over, so when Internet streaming audio (in background) plays loud targeted advertisements, mute means 'only foreground application might do anything, but certainly not the loud background application, and OS will not mute mixer master because OS is sending all HID volume events to foreground application'.
  • Some user software (DOS, perhaps) does not know and does not care about HID volume events.
  • Now low-level software (BIOS setup program, POST errors) cannot be shut-up.
Back on-topic: brightness keys no longer control brightness. If the firmware stack behaves, then it sends ACPI notice/notification/event/signal/message to OS, and OS sends 'do something' back to firmware. (I do not know what I am talking about, I do not know what words to use. Please do correct me.) This is a lousy solution to the 'how to control hardware features' problem. LeNOvo replaced what worked perfectly, with a new problem: control of hardware features is on again and off again.

When I had this problem with X201s, using a four years-old HDD clone, I realised I should try a newer Linux distro release. No improvement. Then I suspected a firmware bug. I flashed latest BIOS/EC update, and no, it did not improve brightness control. "Well, Lenovo does not give a dime about Linux, so I will try Microsoft Windows 6.1, the OS which they intended this machine to run." Windows had no more control over brightness than Linux. "Well, maybe instead of the WHQL driver from Windows Update catalog, I should be using driver package from Intel's or Lenovo's faeces-filled Web site." No, their drivers provided no better behaviour. Linux kernels old or current, three Windows driver packs, cannot compensate for faulty lenova hardware/firmware. In my use of X201s, ACPI brightness control was on again and off again, no matter whether system at power-on was: coming out of suspend to RAM /sleep/standby/snooze, resume from hibernate, warm restart, power-on from off.


cfds wrote:I start to believe that it is a result of the way I setup my battery/power manager?
No, it is not a result of your chosen settings. I believe it is faulty firmware, buggy bios, just plain lousy product from Lenovo. Intel can be at fault, too. Their documentation is worse than ever. Every (thing containing microchips) is worse than ever. I see less sanity in I.T./computer/electronics industries today, than during Dot-Com Boom.

You are not alone, bothered by screen brightness. You have my empathy.



2015-06-04 edit add quotation:
2015-06-03 : X250 as a replacement for X200s/X201s? : Puppy wrote:This is caused by Lenovo (and possible other vendor's as well) bug in BIOS that always sets maximum brightness level during boot stage, the desired level is adujsted when Windows are loaded. I have already reported it many times but got answer "no way to get it fixed". Older IBM ThinkPads were able to remember the brightness level even in BIOS.

Re: screen brightness and ultranav problems

Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 9:22 am
by emeraldgirl08
I've noticed this problem on a few Thinkpads (T400, T500, X201tablet) for years now. I found there is roughly a 60/40 chance that when I let the laptop go to sleep I will lose brightness control when I wake it. What usually restores the ability to adjust brightness is closing and reopening the lid. If that doesn't work then only a reboot will suffice. IIRC I posted a question on this forum regarding the brightness bug when I had my first T400 back in 2010. I never did find a permanent solution for the brightness issue and noticed the issue surfaced in a T500 and X201Tablet as well. As for your trackpad problem I do not recall experiencing any issues similar to what you are describing probably because I turn the momentum feature off. Try opening/closing the lid and see if that helps with the brightness issue.

Re: screen brightness and ultranav problems

Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 9:26 am
by cfds
automobus wrote:
cfds wrote:I start to believe that it is a result of the way I setup my battery/power manager?
No, it is not a result of your chosen settings. I believe it is faulty firmware, buggy bios, just plain lousy product from Lenovo. Intel can be at fault, too. Their documentation is worse than ever. Every (thing containing microchips) is worse than ever. I see less sanity in I.T./computer/electronics industries today, than during Dot-Com Boom.

You are not alone, bothered by screen brightness. You have my empathy.
Well, so far over 500 "users" have read this topic and did not bothered to respond so I believed that I was the only one having these issues. I love these lenovo's but currently these little "bugs" are really dampening my love for these machines...

Luckily my thinkpads do start up rather quickly due to the use of the SSD's as I cannot be asked to wait to long for them to reboot in order to be able to readjust the screen brightness. I am sure one of these day's I will trow one off them out of the window...

Like another bug on my T420...the brightness of the T420 does cycle for a second to full bright combined with a beep every 5 min or so when I am recharging the battery...It does not happen when the slice battery is fitted together with the 9 cell...but almost guaranteed does it when running only on the 9 cell. That's another thing what pisses me of together with the DVD drive being deactivated when on battery power and NO WAY to get it reactivated unless doing a reboot while plugged in the mains. I am getting fed up reading through forums trying to find solutions, Lenovo has been building computers long enough to get it right? Its not that I am running different software or hardware - no my machines are all stock and running the official software including all the drivers found on the Lenovo site.

Re: screen brightness and ultranav problems

Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 9:27 am
by cfds
emeraldgirl08 wrote:I've noticed this problem on a few Thinkpads (T400, T500, X201tablet) for years now. I found there is roughly a 60/40 chance that when I let the laptop go to sleep I will lose brightness control when I wake it. What usually restores the ability to adjust brightness is closing and reopening the lid. If that doesn't work then only a reboot will suffice. IIRC I posted a question on this forum regarding the brightness bug when I had my first T400 back in 2010. I never did find a permanent solution for the brightness issue and noticed the issue surfaced in a T500 and X201Tablet as well. As for your trackpad problem I do not recall experiencing any issues similar to what you are describing probably because I turn the momentum feature off. Try opening/closing the lid and see if that helps with the brightness issue.
Thanks, will try it and report back!

Re: screen brightness and ultranav problems

Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 10:23 pm
by hhhd1
I have stumbled on somewhat similar behvior on T520, not exactly sure if it is similar 100%.

Couple of years ago, I have created a tool to manage brightness, its purpose was to keep brightness level when switching between power plans, or between AC/DC, but, when the brightness on my T520 started acting up, i was still able to change brightness through this tool.

http://www.codeground.net/apps/brightne ... r-windows/

Re: screen brightness and ultranav problems

Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 11:42 pm
by cfds
Thanks so far for the feedback and help...

My "new" X220" does it also although slightly different sometimes...sometimes I just loose the brightness control and opening closing the lid does not solve the issue, a reboot is required and the only way to solve it.

But I had 2 occasions where the brightness control still worked but I lost the OSD from volume and brightness. Instead I could see a faint and greyed out image from the thinklight OSD. The thinklight still functions but the temporary OSD pop up on the display stays all the time on but greyed out - like more transparent.
The first time I ignored it and continued working on the computer up to the point that my mouse pointer started behaving erratic basically forcing me to reboot the computer as I could not do anything...

It all is linked up with the hotkey OSD/power manager...