X200/201/s S-PVA and AFFS screen stats

[Hexagonal]

Hello everyone,

Recently I acquired and awaiting the delivery of a X200s with the 1440x900 screen.

I know from some of the threads around here that quite a few people have replaced their screens of their X2xx/s with either AFFS or S-PVA screens.

From the photos and videos I have seen on each, I wonder whether anyone has a colorimeter like a spider, or i1 Display 2/Pro and measured the colour areas of these screens.

I'm attracted to the mod because 1) affordable machines 2) affordable screens, especially the AFFS glossy ones which I don't mind and 3) relatively powerful machines in the x201 versions with the i5/7 with 8GB ram and SSD for photo and light video work.

I'm more interested in the photo side of things and I was wondering if anyone measured % of coverage of sRGB and contrast ratio of either of these screens and could give me a hand with deciding with which I would go if i had to choose one to install on a future x201.

Also, from what I understand, if I get an x201, all I need is the screen I want + CCFL inverter + CCFL cable from the x200, correct?

I am not planning to install any screen on the x200s I'm awaiting delivery, so I would be considering doing the mod on an X201.

Many thanks!

[Hexagonal]

No one?

Kind of surprised here. I imagine there must have been someone interested in photography/design/video that did this in order to improve accuracy of colour and contrast ratios.

I remember seeing a post in the German thinkpad forum where someone made a comment on one of the mods regarding colour accuracy but I can't find the link.

Still researching...

[PandorasThinkpad]

Hi!

Have had myself X200s with 1440x900, the resolution is fine, the brightness is good...but that's quite all...

Myself i have the X201 with I7 and have now changed to AFFS Display.....and yes, that is what you will need....i bought an whole Display with CCFL.....Screen, Cabel and Inverter and then i put the AFFS panel in....and put it completely on the X201...

but before you will restart the machine,

batteries out and fully reset....hold the power button about half an minute pressed...

And the fact is, it will be more and more difficult to get really good AFFS panels, they will not be produced anymore and the ones you get are even some years old, so they get faults...just take a look in my AFFS thread....the other one i have bought has now a little bright spot but not any other fault....so that i hardly can live with...

So there will no guarantee if you purchase an new one from china...that this display will be free of faults....they are getting older an older,....even the ones who will be sold as new....you just have to decider this....

I would have tested an PVA screen (LTN121AP02 FRU 42T0563 (not glossy)), but i have never found one to an good price, this screen partly would be available even with led i guess, so this might be a real good alternative...instead of buying an AFFS...on which you have to chose between glossy and not glossy....this displays have all CCFL...

HV121WX5-100 (glossy)
HV121WX4-110 (glossy)
HV121WX4-120 (not glossy) Therefore you are from GB...http://www.ebay.de/itm/400675941989?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT

This panels will to X200(s) and X201.

Sincerly,

PAnDoRa

[91011]

awaiting the delivery of a X200s with the 1440x900 screen....if I get an x201, all I need is the screen I want + CCFL inverter + CCFL cable from the x200, correct

If you're referring to getting the parts from WXGA+ x200s lid assembly above, no.
The WXGA+ is LED and has no parts in common with the CCFL assembly used in the x200/x201.
Well, the hinges are the same.

[Hexagonal]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies.

I wasn't intending on converting the 1440x900 X200s. I am intending in buying a X201 and then do the AFFS/PVA convertion to that machine.

So, for a stock X201 (non S) I would need the cable and inverter and the desired screen.

There is a seller in the US that is selling "new" Gateway complete lids of the 110 (Glossy) type of the AFFS. I trust they may be in good shape if they have been cannibalised from new laptops.

Also, there is a second hand S-PVA panel with the digitizer on sale on ebay, also in the US.

My question is, do any of these cover sRGB more than the other? if so, what is the %. I wonder if I am rather rare here because I also moded my W530 laptop (well...just a swap) with the Dell TN glossy version of the W530s original panel and now I get a 600:1 contrast ratio TN panel with 95% Adobe RGB coverage with 100% sRGB coverage.

I also had to return the X200s I bought because the screen had a scratch...so the X201 screen mod is a must. Still deciding whether AFFS is better than S-PVA in colour coverage and doing some research into that but it is rather hard to find specs on those paneles specifically.

Does anyone know which laptops used those panels so I can search for their reviews?

I know the PVA panel has a Lenovo FRU but I can't pinpoint a review where I can confirm such laptop had that panel installed, or if a review even has colourimetric measurements.

Sorry to be a pain, but my other choice would be gambling on the screens.

[Hexagonal]

Has anyone here bought from this guy?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gateway-E155-E- ... 35b8fd4431

He seems to have sold a few and I don't mind the glossy display at all.

I was just wondering how hard it would be to take it apart and use the panel from this seller.

Also, I am unsure why people are using a sharp knife to take away the touch surfave instead of heat?

[PandorasThinkpad]

Hi!

First....your wrote

My question is, do any of these cover sRGB more than the other? if so, what is the %. I wonder if I am rather rare here because I also moded my W530 laptop (well...just a swap) with the Dell TN glossy version of the W530s original panel and now I get a 600:1 contrast ratio TN panel with 95% Adobe RGB coverage with 100% sRGB coverage.

....

I have no knowledge about this, you have to try to get input from another one to this case...

The other thing...why cutting with an sharp and thin knife or so...if you cut carefully around the border of the panel there would be a 100 percent chance to get an undamaged display...but this will count only for the HV121WX4-120 that comes as an X200t Display...instead of using heat...with heat there would always be the higher likelihood to damage the display....you just have to find out by yourself what will be the best method for the display you have chosen...if it not will be delivered pure without any parts surrounding it.

Kindly,

PanDoRA

[precip9]

I've measured the X61T with the 1400x1050 FFS screen and fluorescent backlight. The color gamut approximates SRGB, which in turn is about 71% of Adobe RGB. I don't know if current portables exist that do better, but it's worth noting that the Wacom Cintiq 2 tablet, a specialty machine for artists, has about the same gamut. Because garden variety LED backlights use blue to excite the white LED phosphors (the expensive stuff is tricolor or quantum-dot), LED could have a little more blue extension. But in my experience, blue bleed through is a problem with Lenovo backlights, and an obstacle to color accuracy.

Expanding the gamut of a backlight to the extent of Adobe RGB is impractical in a portable due to the power consumption. The larger the gamut, the less efficient the light source. A 27" Wacom tablet screen consumes about 100 watts, most of it by the backlight.

But as Edwin Land discovered with his two primary color perception experiments, the eye can perceive a wide range of colors even with a limited gamut. Calibration of both machines is a remarkable improvement. If you were to guess the gamut of a calibrated W500, you would probably guess wrong.

I have also measured a W500 WUXGA screen: about 60% of SRGB

[Hexagonal]

Pandorasthinkpad,

Yes, I assumed heat could damage the panel, but since I have seen that method being used by some repair people, I wondered if there was a special reason to use a knife. I will use a scalpel then.

I see you have an i7 x201. I have been considering getting one of these. It's the 620m? I am eyeing an i5 with the 540m because from what I have seen, performance is only superior on some things on the i7, but power consumption is apparently 15% more at peak and idle. I am thinking I might as well max out an x201, regardless of cpu, to 8gb and SSD and AFFS.

precip9,

My W530 has roughly ~95% AdobeRGB coverage with its panel and this feature has been available to Lenovo W5xx since the W510 I believe. Sadly enough, W540 does away with even full coverage of sRGB, albeit the colour spectrum is larger than sRGB, it tends to miss the warm side of the spectrum.

Sony Vaio Z11, Z12, Z13 and Z21 had almost full AdobeRGB coverage as well on the 13" size and ultra portable.

Yes, all the panels I mention are TN, but at least with my W530, it has to be one of the best TN's ever made because colour shifts are not happening as soon as many other TN panels, espcially the lower res ones that Lenovo delivered with the T4xx and T5xx/W5xx machines.

AdobeRGB panels are rare, expensive and maybe impractical for general use, but well worth it when you can match them up to a colour critical monitor like NEC or Eizo.

What you mention about the FFS gives me a hint of what I imagined would happen: aprox. to sRGB but maybe a larger space, just not covering some side of the spectrum. Pretty much in line with many panels today and I believe similar to the X220 IPS.

I somehow had hopes that maybe the S-PVA Samsung would have a greater coverage if anyone had tried to measure it before, but I do see where AFFS works well.

Howcome AFFS seems to have been neglected as a panel technology in future laptops? is IPS cheaper or better?

[PandorasThinkpad]

Hi!

Yes, this X201 i have, maximum performance was prior to me.....and this is what this machine is good for and for what i need it...with an quite awsome display....

And yes, scalpel would be a good choice..

Greets,

PAnDoRa

[Hexagonal]

Hi everyone again!

Quick question. Some people mention the Samsung S-PVA screen as LTN121AP02 and this screen is a CCFL screen.

However, some lenovo part number I found (but can't remember how I stumbled upon it) shows this LTN121AP04, which after looking at Panelook.com I find that is it a WLED panel, same res as the CCFL one.

http://www.panelook.cn/LTN121AP04-001_S ... _8224.html

and info on LTN121AP02

http://www.panelook.com/LTN121AP02-001_ ... _8221.html

So far I can see that the only difference between these two is the backlight. Does that mean I could fit the WLED *04 on the X201?

Cheers,

EDIT: I just noticed that as soon as I put the *04 model on ebay, it comes out with X201/x200 tablet part number. So, if my X201 is LED, can I fit this screen?
EDIT 2: Nevermind, even if I could fit it...it is very expensive. Moreso than the ebay seller I listed above stocking the glossy AFFS screen.

EDIT 3: So, http://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/117371 ... isplay-Mod says that sRGB coverage on the S-PVA panel is not as good as the AFFS panel. With that being the only ever report on the coverage of these screens, I sign off this thread by saying I just purchased the AFFS panel from the US. I will report back as soon as I get it and get it installed.

[Bibin]

Just going to give my impressions of the Samsung S-PVA screen in bullet points:

-Disappointing viewing angles for a PVA screen
-Pretty dim, even brand new
-Contrast leaves much to be desired
-Screwy gamma curve; most values in the 10-0 range look like 0 (out of 255)
-Extra blurry with motion content

All in all, a total disappointment compared to the AFFS panel.

[Hexagonal]

Just going to give my impressions of the Samsung S-PVA screen in bullet points:

-Disappointing viewing angles for a PVA screen
-Pretty dim, even brand new
-Contrast leaves much to be desired
-Screwy gamma curve; most values in the 10-0 range look like 0 (out of 255)
-Extra blurry with motion content

All in all, a total disappointment compared to the AFFS panel.

Hi Bibin,

Thanks for the input. It's interesting you mention a poor contrast ratio because Samsung quotes that panel to have 1000:1 ratio and this link shows that it has a very good contrast ratio:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=88839

Did you run a calibration on your machine to make sure the graphics know how to interpret colours and blacks? This is usually advised when you switch panels, since the graphics LUT by Lenovo may be averaged for the stock panel. When I changed my W530 panel from the stock FHD to the glossy FHD (better contrast ratio) the first thing I noticed was a warmer panel. After calibration with DispcalGUI and i1 DP the panel was displaying great whites and a slightly higher than specified contrast ratio (specs 500:1 -> measured 620:1)

[Bibin]

Just going to give my impressions of the Samsung S-PVA screen in bullet points:

-Disappointing viewing angles for a PVA screen
-Pretty dim, even brand new
-Contrast leaves much to be desired
-Screwy gamma curve; most values in the 10-0 range look like 0 (out of 255)
-Extra blurry with motion content

All in all, a total disappointment compared to the AFFS panel.

Hi Bibin,

Thanks for the input. It's interesting you mention a poor contrast ratio because Samsung quotes that panel to have 1000:1 ratio and this link shows that it has a very good contrast ratio:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=88839

Did you run a calibration on your machine to make sure the graphics know how to interpret colours and blacks? This is usually advised when you switch panels, since the graphics LUT by Lenovo may be averaged for the stock panel. When I changed my W530 panel from the stock FHD to the glossy FHD (better contrast ratio) the first thing I noticed was a warmer panel. After calibration with DispcalGUI and i1 DP the panel was displaying great whites and a slightly higher than specified contrast ratio (specs 500:1 -> measured 620:1)

Contrast ratios provided by companies had might as well be completely made-up. What is seldom provided is the black level, or the panel's ability to successfully block light when needed. So many panels provide a dim tone instead of black from having such a poor black level. this one was no exception.

Calibrating isn't going to improve contrast, since I'm testing full native point white against completely off black. I would use a profile to improve the color temperature and color response ramps, which weren't problems I even considered when the rest of it was so mediocre.

I no longer have the computer that was in this (I put back the glossy AFFS screen as even the gloss was worth not having such a sad image as the Samsung panel) but I may have the panel in a box somewhere. I will return home in six months, and if I find the panel I will happily sell it to anyone interested for the cost of shipping.

EDIT: It's possible there are multiple revisions of this panel to consider.

[Hexagonal]

OK!

So, I got the screen, inverter and cable BUT! something isn't working. The screen is not powering on.

I am suspecting the inverter because, at power on, only one LED turns on on the left side (looks like the bluetooth LED) but the other LEDs don't turn on at all. Also, when I plug the power cord, the battery LED also doesn't turn on so I suspect some connection in the middle may be at fault.

I will try to get another inverter since I am pinning down the fault to that piece with the non-working LEDs as a symptom of a broken inverter.

I will be back soon enough!

[axur-delmeria]

It could also be the cable.

[Hexagonal]

It could also be the cable.

OK. I am now asking to see if the seller has another inverter at hand for me to try. If the result is same, I will then look for another cable and see if that is where it fails.

Cheers,

[Frobe70]

When I bought an old X200 LCD cable on eBay for my X201 AFSS-replacement I got a cable without any hall sensor fitted.
The unit powered up, but no light on LCD. I could barely see the ThinkPad logo on the screen.

Had to use my soldering iron to transfer the small hall sensor (2+3 small pins) from my original cable to the X200 cable.
The hall sensor is located on the left side of the LCD, on a 4mm wide cable strip branching out from the LCD cable.

[Hexagonal]

Frobe70,

Thanks for the reply.

The screen doesn't power up at all. I couldn't even see an image. From what I understand, the hall sensor is responsible for the comms on the status of the lid (closed/open)

The cable I received (lets call it Cable A) was a second hand one and it did have the sensor installed.

I will watch out for this on the second cable (Cable B) when it arrives.

Cheers,

Max

[Hexagonal]

OK!

So, as I type this I'm looking at the new AFFS screen and it looks great.

However, I got some questions.

1) Lowest brightness (say, 0 on the screen) only half the screen is lit (right side). The other half is almost completely dark. Is this common with CCLF?
2) When upping the brightness, the last 4 or so steps are not evenly recorded. So, when upping the brightness, the only responsive brightness settings are: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 9. The other missing steps (7, 8 and 10) are not responsive. Is this common?

Other than that, I scratched the screen a bit while taking the digitizer off but the IQ is still great. Totally worth the upgrade. Don’t know if I would want to get a second screen just yet. I will do a couple of tests before to see how it behaves as a work machine. Although for the grand sum cost so far (£210) including a 160GB Intel SSD and all other things needed for the conversion, I am very happy.

The battery I bought was relatively new, as well. I was lucky to get the Panasonic cells and the deterioration of the full capacity design was just 3% when I got it. As I type this, I have word open, Outlook refreshing constantly, WIFI and BT on and Firefox with 5 tabs open and the Thinklight on. I have 87% left on the battery and the suggested time remaining is 5:45hs. It may have been an hour more with the LED panel, but I can’t really remember.