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X201s, to buy or not?

X200, X201, X220 (including equivalent tablet models) and X300, X301 series specific matters only.
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Self_Propelled_Crane
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X201s, to buy or not?

#1 Post by Self_Propelled_Crane » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:35 am

I saw an X201s in a "Items-From-Japan" (Intel i5, 1440x900 screen resolution, 8 gb of RAM, 120 gb HDD, OS looks like Win7) surplus store yesterday. Was thinking of getting it, but I wanted your opinions first. Is it still worth it in 2018? What are it's pros and cons? What can it do and not do compared to let's say the X220 and X230? Is the price of approx $212 worth it for a machine of it's age?
Has plans to make a Frankenpad. Please sell a Thinkpad T60 or T60p with a 1600x1200 screen resolution to me. :D

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#2 Post by axur-delmeria » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:03 pm

IIRC the X201s is a bit rare. The screen resolution is good (1440x900), but you should check the viewing angles if it's to your liking-- I remember more than a few posts in this forum complaining about this particular display.

Also check the remaining battery capacity.

The price isn't that great though. For a bit more you can probably get an X220 or X230 which has superior performance (though the screen is only 1366x768).
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#3 Post by wujstefan » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:40 am

X201s is very rare, and $212 is actually a good price if the shape is good as well.

If this system is for M$ of any kind, and you're not into gaming or CAD design it will do very good when equipped w/SSD. It's IMO the best 12" 16:10 system. I7 version runs hot. As for the display, there is nothing to complain about unless you are used to old IPS screens. Viewing angles are OK, brightness is great, all it lacks a bit is the contrast. At least on mine unit :)
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#4 Post by Self_Propelled_Crane » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:00 am

wujstefan wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:40 am
X201s is very rare, and $212 is actually a good price if the shape is good as well.

If this system is for M$ of any kind, and you're not into gaming or CAD design it will do very good when equipped w/SSD. It's IMO the best 12" 16:10 system. I7 version runs hot. As for the display, there is nothing to complain about unless you are used to old IPS screens. Viewing angles are OK, brightness is great, all it lacks a bit is the contrast. At least on mine unit :)
I'm used to TN screens (some colleagues run T430 and T420 units, so I guess the X210s screen can't be worse, right?). And I watch Television on Braun Tubes/CRTs. Does the i5-version run hot? Also, I'm unable to work out what i5 processors were used on it, since the thinkwiki only lists the I7 versions. Am I gonna have problems when watching 720p or 1080p MP4 videos?
Has plans to make a Frankenpad. Please sell a Thinkpad T60 or T60p with a 1600x1200 screen resolution to me. :D

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#5 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:43 am

Self_Propelled_Crane wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:00 am
Am I gonna have problems when watching 720p or 1080p MP4 videos?
IMO 720p is no issue. Smooth 1080p playback depends on the media player software as well as the encoding settings of the video itself.
The first-generation Core i series has Clear Video acceleration (can handle H.264 video). With the right media player application, it can reduce the CPU load while playing videos.
Then again, it's not as good as the later Quick Sync found in 2nd-gen and later Core i CPUs.
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#6 Post by FryPpy » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:48 pm

Self_Propelled_Crane wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:00 am
Also, I'm unable to work out what i5 processors were used on it, since the thinkwiki only lists the I7 versions
There are i5 versions of X201s with 520UM. This is ULV CPU and it should be cooler than i7 version (620LM 640LM). But and performance wise it is slowest CPU. I haven't such CPU so i can't add any info about performance.

FOOTNOTES:
Before one experiment i thought that LV CPU (ex 640LM) is cooler than NV (ex 640M). I have rebuild X201s placing 640LM into normal X201 body with normal (thick) heatsink and fan. And i haven't noticed that it becomes absolutely cool. Moreover under high load it was hot and fan spins nonstop.
Yesterday have checked 480M vs 640M in T410 and both works as hot as hell:(
Summer times makes things hotter. Even my X61 (i am writing this post on it) now idles at 67С and it is very hot. I have tested X61 in Low Power Mode (Maximum Battery Mode in Power Manager) that makes it run at 800MHz. It can read TPF and play mp3 in background at 63-65C. With youtube videos it goes to 75C and more. I think i shoud repaste it. So may be ULV CPU can be cooler these hot summer days.

And i have rebuild that X201s (in normal body) to IPS and it is a spare to my daylidriver X201 with 620M. Anyway if you deside to move to IPS in future it will cost you complete screen assembly from X200 and IPS LCD (HX121WX4-120).

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#7 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:37 pm

FryPpy wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:48 pm
Summer times makes things hotter. Even my X61 (i am writing this post on it) now idles at 67С and it is very hot. I have tested X61 in Low Power Mode (Maximum Battery Mode in Power Manager) that makes it run at 800MHz. It can read TPF and play mp3 in background at 63-65C. With youtube videos it goes to 75C and more.
That's a terrible idle temp for an X61-- and that's coming from a bloke who used to own one and lives in a tropical country.
So yeah, you might need to repaste that, and undervolt the CPU as well.
BTW what type of heatsink does yours have? The one with two thin heatpipes, or the single wide heatpipe?
Before one experiment i thought that LV CPU (ex 640LM) is cooler than NV (ex 640M). I have rebuild X201s placing 640LM into normal X201 body with normal (thick) heatsink and fan. And i haven't noticed that it becomes absolutely cool. Moreover under high load it was hot and fan spins nonstop.
Yesterday have checked 480M vs 640M in T410 and both works as hot as hell:(
Either Intel messed up big time with the 620LM/640LM, or there's a design flaw in the X201 heatsink.

Have you made note of the idle and load temps of that "X201s board in X201 chassis" Frankenpad? Did you tweak the fan speeds with TPFancontrol or similar software?
I'd love to get quantifiable data, as it's more useful than vague "it gets hot and the fans spin nonstop".
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#8 Post by FryPpy » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:29 pm

axur-delmeria wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:37 pm
Either Intel messed up big time with the 620LM/640LM, or there's a design flaw in the X201 heatsink.
Not Intel.... but Lenovo ;)
After writing last post (yesterday) i desided to change something on the desk... Shutdown X61, put X201 (620M) on dock, copied music and TPFC and start tasks like on X61. Moreover i have added second X201 (640LM franky) and do the same thingy. As a footnote: 620M have SSD and battery and franky have HDD (SSD was clonned from this HDD and have almost the same software and settings) and no battery. Both are working on AC.
And expeiment begins.
Ambient temp is 30C ;)
Both have switched to "Maximum battery life" in Power Manager. And faster 620M works @ 1.17GHZ abut slower 640LM goes to 1.19GHz.
TPFC switched to BIOS mode.
(BAD thing - one have TPFC ver. 063 and other 062. Because i thought that 063 badly handles X201 - only one temp is shown, but 062 behaves the same).
Some light tasks - 10 tabs in firefox + VLC with playlist with mp3.
After some time the temps are:
620M - 51C
640LM franky - 55C BUT IT IS BETTER than X61 ;)
What is heppening?
Fan speed:
620M - 3300rpm
640LM - 2020rpm (and it is really quiet).
I don't kow why X201s prefer agressive cooling. It is sertantly not because i have changed HSF (ThinkPad simply can't understood this change).

So in TPFS changed to Manual mode - 7
620M - ~5300rpm
640LM - ~5200rpm (don't remember presise numbers but X201s was 100rpm slower).

And waited some time:
620M - 47C
640LM - 45C (The winner!)
May be at this point Ambient temp falled to 29C because sun gone down. This temp i have noticed after experiments have done.

The last thing to do - is to measure side by side temps on hight load - but this task for tomorrow.

PS
I don't remember what HSF in X61. Even i don't remember when i last repasted it. :( So the time have come and i should give the honor to the friend.
But more cardinal way fighting hight temps on X61 is.... building X62.
And while this experiment was going on I listened to music and modded x62.

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#9 Post by axur-delmeria » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:55 am

FryPpy wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:29 pm
After some time the temps are:
620M - 51C
640LM franky - 55C BUT IT IS BETTER than X61 ;)
What is heppening?

Fan speed:
620M - 3300rpm
640LM - 2020rpm (and it is really quiet).
I don't kow why X201s prefer agressive cooling. It is sertantly not because i have changed HSF (ThinkPad simply can't understood this change).
It might be the embedded controller. The X201s might have a different fan speed table compared to the regular X201.
PS
I don't remember what HSF in X61. Even i don't remember when i last repasted it. :( So the time have come and i should give the honor to the friend.
But more cardinal way fighting hight temps on X61 is.... building X62.
And while this experiment was going on I listened to music and modded x62.
If you can't remember when you last repasted it, then it's time to do so. :lol:

I've noticed after opening a few X61's that the heatsink with the single wide heatpipe is installed in models with the fastest CPUs-- I've seen it in two T7500 units and my own T9300. :D

This is the one I'm referring to: http://us-keyboard.net/images/X60%20X61 ... atsink.JPG

I've always been interested in the X62, but I'm a penniless bloke so I can't afford it. :oops:
Besides, the XGA TN display and the difficulty of the IPS mod are big minuses.
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#10 Post by FryPpy » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:34 pm

FryPpy wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:29 pm
The last thing to do - is to measure side by side temps on hight load - but this task for tomorrow.
And the last experiment.
Today it's a bit rainy and now ambient temp is 28C.
I used 7-zip in benchmark mode to load CPU and get some benchmarking date.
7-zip: 4 threads, 32Mb vocabulary size.

1. "Maximum battery life" in Power Manager, BIOS in TPFC and wait some time:
620M - 58C / 3591rpm (3538MIPS in total, 3564 compress, 3513 decompress)
640LM - 55C / 4230rpm (3532, 3509, 3555)
They work on par... now 620M is hotter, and... 640LM decompress better (why :?: )
2. "Maximum battery life" in Power Manager, Manual-7 in TPFC and wait some time:
620M - 56C / 4537rpm
640LM - 52 / 5476rpm (benchmarking data almost the same as in #1)

The work in "Maximum battery life" should be very similar with work on 520U (1.06GHz). The testing was on XP and the thinkpad in "Maximum battery life" works pretty well for office tasks - doc, pdf, web, email.

3. "Maximum performance" in Power Manager, BIOS in TPFC and wait some time:
620M - on 8th minute goes to 95C and begin some throttling, fan at 4041rpm (7920, 7520, 8320)
640LM - 79C, fan at 4820rpm (6987, 6767, 7208) no throttling after 12 min.
4. "Maximum performance" in Power Manager, Manual-7 in TPFC and wait some time:
620M - bad thing TPFC ver. 063 don't let me stay in Manual and moves to Smart. In Smart it goes to 86C and 5792rpm and almoust stops throttling.
640LM - 74C fan at 5457rpm (The winner)

CONCLUSIONS:
X201s with i7 in X201 body is very able Thinkpad especially when the working temperatures is metter. I don't know how behaves X201s with i5 ULV CPU. For sure it should be cooler than both my. But have it enough horsepower to work comfortably with modern software now and in near future.

PS
And my apologizes to Self_Propelled_Crane for moving thread slightly offtopic.

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#11 Post by axur-delmeria » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:27 pm

FryPpy wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:34 pm
CONCLUSIONS:
X201s with i7 in X201 body is very able Thinkpad especially when the working temperatures is metter. I don't know how behaves X201s with i5 ULV CPU. For sure it should be cooler than both my. But have it enough horsepower to work comfortably with modern software now and in near future.

PS
And my apologizes to Self_Propelled_Crane for moving thread slightly offtopic.
Slightly off-topic, yes, but it's a good demonstration of the i7-640LM's capability. I do wonder if an i7-620M with Turbo boost disabled will yield similar performance, temperature, and battery life compared to the i7-640LM. :D

Regarding the i5-520UM, since it's an 18.5w TDP processor, the temps will be considerably lower, and performance can be estimated by limiting your 640LM to 1.6GHz max clock (1.6GHz is the 520UM's max turbo with both cores loaded). I suspect that 1.6 GHz will feel a bit sluggish to the end-user.
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#12 Post by shawross » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:26 pm

For me TPFC is good for noisy fans in relatively low ambient conditions. I used TPFC on my T43's but for my X201 540M I just let the bios handle temps because my fan isn't noisy.

I do use CoreTemp to keep an eye on Temp, Ram and CPU load. I find doing this my system runs cooler and I run my X201 with an ambient of around 30 - 35 degrees.

Slight throttling of an X201 is definitely a viable option also IMO.
Active --- Love the X series
X301 SU9400 IDA Mod - W 7 / X201 540M - W 7 / X220 2520 - W7

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X61 T7500 / T41 T42 T43 / A31

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#13 Post by wujstefan » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:11 am

shawross wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:26 pm
For me TPFC is good for noisy fans in relatively low ambient conditions. I used TPFC on my T43's but for my X201 540M I just let the bios handle temps because my fan isn't noisy.

I do use CoreTemp to keep an eye on Temp, Ram and CPU load. I find doing this my system runs cooler and I run my X201 with an ambient of around 30 - 35 degrees.

Slight throttling of an X201 is definitely a viable option also IMO.
Too bad Arrandales do not undervolt
I do, and this thing is driving me nuts. However, I've worked out this weekend that the system is getting warm only left side - I've used some copper shims to redistribute the heat throughout the lower chassis. We'll see how it works. A good, ceramic thermal compound did its job great already.
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#14 Post by axur-delmeria » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:01 am

I'm seriously considering liquid metal (Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut) in order to get the full performance of my X220 i7. Maybe you should too. :twisted:

If that fails, I'll take the heatsink from one of my spare X220's and fabricate a watercooling loop for it. :lol:
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#15 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:49 am

Once you use liquid metal, it's almost impossible to remove the heatsink again!
I use Hydronaut, because it is slightly more universal (and cheaper) than Kryonaut.

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#16 Post by axur-delmeria » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:01 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:49 am
Once you use liquid metal, it's almost impossible to remove the heatsink again!
That only means I have to install the watercooling loop and apply liquid metal at the same time! :lol:
I use Hydronaut, because it is slightly more universal (and cheaper) than Kryonaut.
I bought a 7.8g tube of Aeronaut by mistake last year. :oops:
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#17 Post by FryPpy » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:33 pm

I gave the honor to the old friend - X61 with T8300. I have dusted and repasted it with AS MX5 and it goes to 50C!!! (but now only 28C ambient). It have one big heatpipe in HSF.
axur-delmeria wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:01 am
X60F Core Solo U1300
Can you write couple words about your toy. What was made (have you put it in X61 body), temps and ability of U1300 in a year 2018. BTW it have 1.06GHz like 520UM but only one core.

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Re: X201s, to buy or not?

#18 Post by axur-delmeria » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:41 pm

FryPpy wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:33 pm
I gave the honor to the old friend - X61 with T8300. I have dusted and repasted it with AS MX5 and it goes to 50C!!! (but now only 28C ambient). It have one big heatpipe in HSF.
axur-delmeria wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:01 am
X60F Core Solo U1300
Can you write couple words about your toy. What was made (have you put it in X61 body), temps and ability of U1300 in a year 2018. BTW it have 1.06GHz like 520UM but only one core.
Why it was built? Leftover working parts.

1. X60s board (without working fan) from another Frankenpad mod -- I put an X61T board into the X60s chassis and sold it around 5 years ago. The X61T's chassis was badly damaged (bad hinge and broken-off left corner near Cardbus slot), not to mention the cracked protective glass on the screen (it's the SXGA+ one which I later broke during my attempt at the X61 IPS mod). :cry:

2. battered X60 chassis and heatsink assembly -- From my aunt's X60 T5600. The X60 board and HDD were transplanted into an X61 chassis whose system board suddenly died.

Why is it called a toy? Because it's not fast enough to be considered useful for my needs, and only bearable because I put in the 32GB SSD (with Debian already installed). It can browse the web a bit sluggishly. I've forgotten the 7-zip benchmark result. I've got to test it again sometime (and compared it against some Atom netbooks).

Temps with the X60 heatsink? It's a struggle to push the CPU temp to 60c. :lol:
Understandable given that it's a 5.5w TDP processor mounted on a heatsink designed for 6 times that heat output. :D
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

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