What Lenovo can learn from Apple Air

Message

jamesdin · #1 Post by **jamesdin** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:31 pm

I often wonder if Lenovo decision makers read stuff like this on the internet. I hope they do because this thread is about lessons Lenovo can learn from AppleAir laptop. Lets keep this thread on topic please in hope that somebody from Lenovo will get a clue and give us best X-series ever made...

[updated per comments below]

AppleAir mistakes:
1) Special adapters for ethernet and modem
2) Only 1 USB port, and no firewire.
3) Built-in battery
4) No docking station
5) Small hard disk drive
6) No external switch to turn WiFi on/off
7) Trackpad
8) No CardBus or ExpressCard
9) Fat bazel
10) 13.3" screen (see #9)
11) No user serviceable upgrades

What Apple got right:
1) a) Hi-res b) LED-backlit c) widescreen display
2) Optional SSD disk drive
3) Built-in camera
4) Full-size keyboard
5) Magnetic power connector
6) DVI. I could live with special adapter for this because support for DVI, VGA, composite and S-video is a nice option to have.
7) Extended desktop and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports two different resolutions and screen ratios. NOTE: Lenovo, you are mistaken if you think all presentations are 600x800 power point slides. Enter the 21st centry, world of SmartBoards and hi-end interactive/video presentations.
8) Instant startup (without hibernation)
9) Wirelesly accessible peripherals like hard disks and dvd-rw/cd-rw drives.
10) Time machine / Time Capsule (seamless wifi NAS system backup)
11) Bootcamp (out of the box support for Windows and Mac OS)

donzoomik · #2 Post by **donzoomik** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:17 pm

Mistakes:
1. Yup, especially with only one USB!
2. One USB is mockery, firewire is arguable.
3. Awful
4. With so few ports - a definite mistake.
5. Small as 80GB... well, it aint that bad. Small as 1.8" - a show-stopper.
6. Considering that there's no Ethernet, it might not be that bad
7. Well, touchpad and trackball are a matter of opinion.
Good stuff:
1. Yes-yes-yes, i want it all!
2. 1.8" optional SDD means very slow standard 1.8" HDD. You obviously haven't used X40/X41.
3. I'm have a MiniDV cam recorder on a tripod next to my dock. I (and most people i know) next to never use webcam, so it doesn't impress me.
4. Performance (HDD) and functionality have been severely axed for size. I already read somewhere, that it is pretty fragile too.
5. I prefer ThinkLight, because it allows me to read documents etc. in dark. For example, when typing in a few lines from a book in a dark room. It lights up the keyboard pretty well.
6. I administer about 40 Macbooks at work and it think that it comes off way too easily. On the other hand, i haven't yet been able to pull a non-MagSafe laptop off-desk by simply pulling the cord. Not impressed.
7. I hate Micro-DVI! Its not a standard, its a hack! Don't have the adapter with you? You're doomed! What's wrong with usual DVI? It can provide usual VGA and also Dual-Link. HDCP if you really want it, that makes it HDMI minus audio. S-Video and Composite are dying standards anyway...
8. Err...? Windows has supported all that since Windows 2000, you know...
9. Well, X6x keyboard is almost full-size, so i don't consider that a major issue.

Overall, i consider it a fashion "accessory," not a a work or entertainment machine.
A few other minuses:
High price.
No expandability - CPU, RAM, HDD etc. are NOT user replacable, probably soldered to motherboard.

khtse · #3 Post by **khtse** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:32 pm

I guess Lenovo should come up with a THINpad.

All those "mistakes" listed above (perhaps except built in battery and the lack of wifi switch) are pretty much unavoidable when one builds a machine this thin.

XIII · #4 Post by **XIII** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:43 pm

Macbook Air is a bad rip-off of the Sony VGN-X505. It has a lot of innovative feature and it is also currently the thinnest laptop, not Macbook Air as Apple claimed.

pianowizard · #5 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:04 pm

jamesdin wrote:5) Backlight keyboard with ambient sensor (yes, please!)

I'd call that a mistake because lighting up the entire keyboard consumes power and reduces battery life.

The 13.3" screen is also a mistake. IMO, 11.1" and 12.1" are the best sizes for ultraportable widescreen laptops. 13.3" makes the machine heavier and uses a little more power than the smaller screens.

I don't think the MacBook Air has anything worth learning from. On the other hand, Lenovo can learn a few things from the Sony TZ series, the Toshiba Portege R500, the Panasonic Y7, the HP nc2400 series, and possibly the Dell XPS m1330.

JabbaJabba · #6 Post by **JabbaJabba** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:20 pm

pianowizard wrote:
jamesdin wrote:5) Backlight keyboard with ambient sensor (yes, please!)
I'd call that a mistake because lighting up the entire keyboard consumes power and reduces battery life.

The 13.3" screen is also a mistake. IMO, 11.1" and 12.1" are the best sizes for ultraportable widescreen laptops. 13.3" makes the machine heavier and uses a little more power than the smaller screens.

I don't think the MacBook Air has anything worth learning from. On the other hand, Lenovo can learn a few things from the Sony TZ series, the Toshiba Portege R500, the Panasonic Y7, the HP nc2400 series, and possibly the Dell XPS m1330.

I fully agree with your comments. Lenovo should definitely closely watch and learn from many of the Japanese notebook manufacturers. In certain aspects, ThinkPads are still superior though.

As for the MacBook Air, it should be added that the 13.3" screen and fat bezel makes the foot print very big. It is only ultraportable when it comes to weight and slimness, but the real estate is almost mainstream. Hence it should not be compaired to a ThinkPad X-series, which has a true ultraportable size.

pxa270 · #7 Post by **pxa270** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:50 pm

I think wide screen 12-inch (as in the Dell D430 or the leaked ThinkPad X200 pics) is the ideal size, because it aligns precisely with a full size keyboard without any wasted space on the sides. The current non-widescreen X-ThinkPads have to sacrifice a bit of the keyboard size because of the narrowness of the screen, while the 13-inchers like the MacBook waste a lot of space on the sides of the keyboard.

jamesdin · #8 Post by **jamesdin** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:13 pm

donzoomik wrote: 8. Err...? Windows has supported all that since Windows 2000, you know...

I'm all ears...

lightweight · #9 Post by **lightweight** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:10 am

If the Apple Macbook Air was twice as thick with more than double the battery life, it would be awesome. I hope Lenovo realizes the ultra-portable notebook is a focus of both size (in 3 dimensions) and battery time.

x61s with ultralight is usable (wireless on, browsing, many files loaded to ram, ~15% brightness) at around 10w, over 7 hours on the 8 cell battery. How much battery time would a led backlight, more energy-efficient cpu, and more energy efficient disk get?

Jackboot · #10 Post by **Jackboot** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:57 am

IMHO having an ultra-thin notebook is not the same as an ultra-portable notebook.

I have never found myself struggling to transport a notebook because of its thickness. It is the width, depth, and weight that make a notebook "ultra-portable", not its thickness/height.

The MBA is only about half an inch thinner than many 14.1 notebooks. That doesn't make it any easier to tote around. It is also not especialy light at just over 3lbs. Aside from all the other shortcomings at simply being a notebook, Apple has failed if this is an attempt at an "ultraportable".

qviri · #11 Post by **qviri** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:16 am

4) Form factor (I'm 50/50 on this. Small is nice but super thin laptop could also mean super fragile laptop)

Extremely underwhelming for an ultraportable once you consider the footprint and weight, not just the thickness.

jamesdin wrote:8) Extended desktop and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports two different resolutions. NOTE: Lenovo, you are mistaken if you think all presentations are 600x800 power point slides. Enter the 21st centry, world of SmartBoards and hi-end interactive/video presentations.

This really does exist. I have not used Lenovo's (or any other manufacturer's) presentation directors, because more often than not, they're jokes. However, video mirroring is trivial with Fn-F7. Extended desktop for two different resolutions is easily achieved with the Display control panel applet, Settings tab. I can't tell you the exact directions because I don't have an XP machine booted right now, but select the grayed-out monitor 2 box then check the "extend my Windows desktop onto this monitor" box.

Unless I am misunderstanding?

9) Full-size keyboard

The X61 is two inches less wide then the Macbook Air, and its keyboard spans the width of the laptop. Anyone care to measure the space on the sides of the Air's keyboard? large picture

donzoomik · #12 Post by **donzoomik** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:52 am

jamesdin wrote:
donzoomik wrote: 8. Err...? Windows has supported all that since Windows 2000, you know...
I'm all ears...

Well, if you open Display Settings (i can't remember proper name, i'm using localized version=, you'll notice, that you can set different resolutions to all displays, move them around any way you want, set primary display etc. Rotation and Cloning are still driver dependant, but vey common these days.

pibach · #13 Post by **pibach** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:01 am

I would like to see a 12" SXGA+ non-widescreen, diskless, fanless solution from Lenovo. Ideally a slate with capacitive touch. No bezel keys, no navdial, only an On/Off switch, that's enough. Maximize screen real estate per chassis volume ratio instead. I/O ports can all go away if it provides some wireless substitute such as Wireless USB or UWB. This should ideally come with the choice between Windows or some Linux distro. Integrated cam is not needed as this can be better replaced by cellphone cam over Bluetooth. And please Lenovo, get rid of this protruding battery which is a design nightmare.

But the main difference what Apple does right is not about the hardware. It is about marketing. Their devices get names to start with. The Thinkpads are too overwhelming in its sheer endless options and configurabiltiy.

JonathanGennick · #14 Post by **JonathanGennick** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:15 am

When discussing what Apple got right and wrong with the MacBook Air, we should remember that Thinkpad users aren't the target market. The MacBook Air is largely about style, and looking cool. The target market is largely style-conscious Mac users. A secondary market might lie in those dedicated Mac users who truly put a premium on light weight, but in the main I see the product as something for the style-conscious who have money to burn.

Having said all of that, Apple did a couple of things here that caught my attention:

* Firstly, Apple went to the extreme of eliminating virtually all outside ports. That's a brilliant decision. They went to an extreme, but not to an unreasonable extreme. Had they allowed more ports in, they would have landed in what I call the "dreaded middle ground". By going to an extreme, they catch people's attention, and they play to a market segment that often does not connect their notebook up to anything at all.

In all the years I've had my X series Thinkpad, I've hardly ever used the ports. One USB port for pen drives and an external monitor port for presentations would be plenty. I know I would trade away the other ports for less weight and smaller form-factor. But have no idea whether there are enough people like me to make up a market large enough for Lenovo to address.

* The second thing about the MacBook Air that caught my attention is the integration with that wireless base station with the built-in hard-drive. Just think of it. As you use your notebook around the house, your files just auto-magically get backed up up to your wireless access point. You don't need to plug in a third device that uses up more power. You don't need to remember to make backups. You don't need to install additional software on your Macbook Air. You just do the initial configuration and from there on out you're protected. I love it when I see computer makers paying more attention to the problem of backup in the home.

I'd love to see Lenovo experiment with implementing functionality along the lines of what Apples has done for backup and recovery. I'd pay for a Think-branded wireless base station if it'd make backing up my Thinkpads transparent and painless.

XIII · #15 Post by **XIII** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:00 pm

There is nothing that Lenovo should learn from Macbook Air apart from the LED screen.
The X61s does everything that the lame Macbook Air does. With 8 hour battery life, it is even more productive than any notebook Apple ever produced.

JonathanGennick · #16 Post by **JonathanGennick** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:12 pm

XIII wrote:The X61s does everything that the lame Macbook Air does. With 8 hour battery life, it is even more productive than any notebook Apple ever produced.

The MacBook Air is not meant to be productive. It is intended to be fun and stylish. Remember, we here at thinkpads.com are not the target market. Apple is going after a different group of people who have different priorities.

pibach · #17 Post by **pibach** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:01 pm

I would say that people buying Thinkpads look particularly for the technique and the specs. Apple buyers instead are more interested want they can do with their machine an do not care so much how the technique behind works. They do care for style, yes, but surely Apple users also want to be productive.

lightweight · #18 Post by **lightweight** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:34 pm

I have never found myself struggling to transport a notebook because of its thickness. It is the width, depth, and weight that make a notebook "ultra-portable", not its thickness/height.

The MBA is only about half an inch thinner than many 14.1 notebooks. That doesn't make it any easier to tote around. It is also not especialy light at just over 3lbs.

Excellent post.

Still, the thing fits in a manilla envelope. I could put it into many bags meant for small laptops, along with my 12" x61s. That's pretty portable, if you "Think Different" about it. I now need to clean this dirtiness off me. F you, Apple.

short101 · #19 Post by **short101** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:25 am

Apple makes me shiver. I intensely dislike IBM with the wireless bios whitelist crap that they pull, but apple take it 3 steps further in regard to being overlords of your computer and peripherals.

mfbernstein · #20 Post by **mfbernstein** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:17 pm

pibach wrote:I would say that people buying Thinkpads look particularly for the technique and the specs. Apple buyers instead are more interested want they can do with their machine an do not care so much how the technique behind works. They do care for style, yes, but surely Apple users also want to be productive.

Baloney. Specs often determine what you can do. Example: you can't use a Firewire camcorder with the new MacBook Air. Why? Because no Firewire port, and no other form of expansion.

All knowledgeable users care about specs. Ignorant users, well every system has those too.

DVormann · #21 Post by **DVormann** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:51 pm

JonathanGennick wrote:In all the years I've had my X series Thinkpad, I've hardly ever used the ports. One USB port for pen drives and an external monitor port for presentations would be plenty. I know I would trade away the other ports for less weight and smaller form-factor.

I agree. One USB, video and two audio ports are all I require when on the road. (Plus a port for power supply and FPR.) Docking is essential, though. A big screen, large Keyboard ODD etc all get attached in an instant when at home.

Models with a low number of external ports will be available from all manufacturers.

dfumento · #22 Post by **dfumento** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:32 pm

Might want more than one USB port: 1 for Wireless WAN modem, 1 for USB key so don't have to remove wireless WAN when using USB key.

damascus · #23 Post by **damascus** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:32 pm

The new AirBook (which is what they should have called it) will be flimsy and lame. I'm guessing it will take a generation or two to work out the bugs, too. I'll tell you what's cool though. The MODBOOK. Seen it? I want one of these. Check out the specs of the tablet

http://www.thomas-pr.com/136/photos/ModBook%20Photo.jpg

More: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Modbook

potatobean · #24 Post by **potatobean** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:00 am

what, no RJ45?? I dont know about the everyone but I never find free wifi, at hotels and at client sites. When I'm on the road, and I'm on the road 80% of the time, I still need to plug in to access the internet. Wired internet should still be a standard, at least until free wifi finally takes off.

proaudioguy · #25 Post by **proaudioguy** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:39 am

damascus wrote:The new AirBook (which is what they should have called it) will be flimsy and lame. I'm guessing it will take a generation or two to work out the bugs, too. I'll tell you what's cool though. The MODBOOK. Seen it? I want one of these. Check out the specs of the tablet

http://www.thomas-pr.com/136/photos/ModBook%20Photo.jpg

More: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Modbook

I know guys that tried to buy that some time ago from the online store and it was vaporware. Is it shipping? There was no way to tell it wasn't available. You have to try and order it. I see they updated the specs, and changed the look a bit.

mfbernstein · #26 Post by **mfbernstein** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:17 am

proaudioguy wrote: I know guys that tried to buy that some time ago from the online store and it was vaporware. Is it shipping? There was no way to tell it wasn't available. You have to try and order it. I see they updated the specs, and changed the look a bit.

The ModBook was on display at Macworld this time around (fully functional units). Despite the delays, it looks like it will finally ship. That said, it's quite a different approach than the X61t, which can also serve as a regular laptop.

pianowizard · #27 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:23 am

An interesting discussion on the Notebookreview forum about the Macbook Air. Most people don't like it.

#28 Post by **draco2527** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:28 pm

ThinkPad X300?

http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/x300/1000528021

Flashman · #29 Post by **Flashman** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:06 pm

I hate widescreen, but I'd like to see an integrated webcam.

rhema83 · #30 Post by **rhema83** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:46 pm

Speaking as the rather computer savvy guy with a very style-conscious girlfriend. Here are the things wrong about MacBook Air that every laptop manufacturer should take note of:

13.3" widescreen
People who didn't buy the MacBook because of its size are not likely to buy the Air. The two have basically the same footprint. And guess what, 13.3" widescreen is hard to fit into a medium-sized purse. Girls are not going to stretch their $1000 designer purses or buy bigger purses to fit in the Air.

1 USB port only
Would people rather deal with a USB hub instead? Or repeatedly plug and unplug things like the printer, a colleague's USB drive, digital camera, iPod, external DVD drive? Oh the DVD drive is another $100 by the way.

No ethernet
Corporate users, get used to using VPN. Don't ever forget the password to the wireless router at home - one can't hard reset the router without a wired connection to reconfigure it afterwards.

Built-in battery
Luck is out for owners who take long flights frequently. No spare battery available. And when the battery dies after a year of repeated recharging, the owner will be without his Air for a week, and $100+ poorer, while the battery is getting replaced back at Apple.

Non-upgradable 1.8" HDD and 2GB RAM
I don't know how memory-hungry OS X and other Apple applications are, but I know for sure that the number-one complain of my girlfriend is "Why is my computer so slow? It takes forever to do anything!" SSD hurts the wallet too much since the base Air is already $1700. Stuck forever, ouch...

Meanwhile, I am typing this on my X61 that runs circles around the Air, purchased and upgraded for a fraction of the price of the Air, kept me entertained on trans-Pacific flights, and fits into my girlfriend's Dior purse. Good job, Lenovo.

What Lenovo can learn from Apple Air

What Lenovo can learn from Apple Air

Re: What Lenovo can learn from Apple Air

Re: What Lenovo can learn from Apple Air

Re: What Lenovo can learn from Apple Air

We aren't the target market

Re: We aren't the target market

MODBOOK anyone?

Re: MODBOOK anyone?

Re: MODBOOK anyone?

Who is online