Thinkpads Forum

nonny wrote:I've seen people ask you this multiple times, but I don't think I've ever seen you answer it - have you ever actually held an X300 and used it?

Task done - yes ! Today I was lucky to see it in local Lenovo ThinkCentre. The first impression is very good. It is really nice, thin but sturdy. The only design problem is the display bezel but it does not look that ugly in real comparing to the pictures. It is just ugly. So my first overall impression was very good until .... turned on. That was a disaster ... I must say the display is absolutely uter crap. I couldn't believe Lenovo can release notebook of this class with such crappy component. Viewing angles are subaverage, black color is non-present because it is just different level of shade, backlight bleeding is over excessive especially from the bottom side. The only good thing is range of brightness settings. A higher resolution than 1440x900 wouldn't hurt.

I really hate Lenovo for this. They have ruined great product with cheap component.

There was also T61 with 15" WSXGA+ display. A bit better but high level of grainess. It was completely different type of grainess than on my LCD NEC 2090UXi which I'm able to ignore at all. The kind of grainess on the ThinkPad display was rather "foggy" than "flashy".

I'm very disappointed to hear this. I had R21, 600, and 755CD in the past. After spending a few years with another generic laptop, I was planning to go thinkpad again soon. but seeing many bad comments on their screens has me worried.

Seriously, for a 13" display, I would much rather have a top of the line 1280x800 screen (or at least on par with the Macbook and VAIO screens) than a crapola 1440x900 screen.

What the hell is the Thinkpad team thinking? These aren't cheap computers. We should at least have the OPTION of selecting a better screen. Paying $100 to $200 bucks more for a better screen isn't that much more when I'm already shelling two grand.

I am really concerned about the x300 screen quality from the various posts.

The problem is: What to get if not the X300? I am looking for a high quality compact laptop for business use but want to be able to enjoy watching movies on it. Price is not a concern. Any suggestions for alternatives?

sony tz or macbook air

naus wrote:Seriously, for a 13" display, I would much rather have a top of the line 1280x800 screen

No, 1280x800 is unacceptable for a 13" display. I'd rather have even higher resolution than 1440x900.

RaysMD wrote:sony tz or macbook air

wtf, macbook air is WORTHLESS... it gets very hot (overheats), has no ports, is pretty worthless in performance too...

Puppy wrote:

naus wrote:Seriously, for a 13" display, I would much rather have a top of the line 1280x800 screen

No, 1280x800 is unacceptable for a 13" display. I'd rather have even higher resolution than 1440x900.

I think 1280x800 is very acceptable for a 13.3" screen. That's 113PPI, for crying out loud. More than any desktop LCD. Not everyone will feel comfortable reading text with such PPI, and not everyone needs high resolution. It's good to have it as an option, but better if it is not the only one.

jamse wrote:wtf, macbook air is WORTHLESS... it gets very hot (overheats), has no ports, is pretty worthless in performance too...

I hate the Macbook Air, for all the things you mentioned, but performance-wise, hey, at least it's a 1.8GHz CPU, whereas the X300 has 1.2GHz. Now that is worthless.

I agree, the X200 comes with 12.1 WXGA (1280x800) and it is a perfect resolution for an LCD screen that size.. No need for higher resolutions than that unless you want to use a magnifying glass while reading text..

I saw a TP X61 today. The screen was far inferior to my T42 screen. Is the X300 screen as bad as the one on the X61?

aquina wrote:The problem is: What to get if not the X300? I am looking for a high quality compact laptop for business use but want to be able to enjoy watching movies on it. Price is not a concern. Any suggestions for alternatives?

Any Dell will do. The Latitude series are the best, in my opinion.

Or the Panasonic CF-Y7 (toughbook). No doubt that the screen on that is much better than the one on the X300, which is insane considering its price next to the x300, but there you go..

I own an X300 as well as the latest gen MacBook Pro 2.6ghz 17". I have to say that most of the posts on here seem pretty unbalanced.

Buying a notebook is a very personal choice, it's funny that if the spec of a certain notebook doesn't meet your requirements then many will post that the machine in question is rubbish.

The X300's intended market is purely mobile business users. As one of those myself I have to say that it's a superb notebook.

Interestingly I also have a MacBook Pro with a 17" LED WUXGA screen. This is widely viewed as one of the better anti-glare displays. Sitting the X300 next to the MBP and I'm afraid the there is very little difference. The MBP has a slightly brighter screen but that's about it. My X300's display is bright and evenly lit. I also appreciate the unusually high resolution.

Most of the criticisms posted on this thread appear to be based on a comparison of glossy against matte screens. Sony displays are great (I've also got a Vaio TZ) but they are invariably glossy. Even Sony's definition of a business class notebook is pretty consumer orientated. All matte displays will appear washed out compared to the best glossy displays. Vaio TZ as an example has a rich vibrancy that a matte display simply can't compare to. However sit in front of it for 8-10 hours in a brightly lit room dealing with the reflections and you have your explanation why many business users demand a matter display.

As for complaints on here regarding the X300 display again many business users demand as much display real estate as possible for obvious reasons. Up until the Sony Z range the X300 had the highest 13" resolution available. Personally I find 1280x800 far too limiting when developing software or working on documents.

My experience of the X300 has been fantastic. It had been a few years since I've owned a thinkpad and you do forget why they get under your skin. I love the look and feel of them especially the keyboard.

I'm often at a loss to read posters talk about a system only having a processor running 1.2, 1.4, 2.1 etc. Many owners seem to fall into the trap of buying into the headline speed of their CPU defining the speed of their system. The speed of any computer system is defined by it's slowest component. In addition many software applications aren't really even optimised for multi-core environments.

Try dropping a 4200RPM 1.8" drive into your 3.0 ghz quad core and watch the effects. Unless you intend to run software that is reliant upon CPU horsepower e.g. rendering or encoding then the benefits of having a 3.4ghz processor are questionable. Let's face it ultraportable laptops are not designed for this anyway.
A balanced hardware architecture will feel far more responsive.

I've also owned a Macbook Air and apart from finding it's connectivity limiting it also felt far slower to use than the X300. It's really surprised me how well the X300 copes with sofware such as SQL Server or Visual Studio. It often feels snappier to use than my MBP running Vista.

Clearly if a rich, vibrant display to watch movies on or to play games is your top priority then the X300 shouldn't be on your list. However having used the X300 for a couple of months now I have to say this it's my favourite laptop I've owned to date. I can't recommend it highly enough. Now if only I could buy a W500 in the UK!

I wish they would make an X300-series laptop that is the same thickness as the X200/X61 but with the larger 13.3" screen and no optical drive, so that they can put in a full-voltage processor. The X200's bezel is ridiculous and the screen is way too tiny. The current X300 is too weak juice.

wibbler23 wrote:The X300's intended market is purely mobile business users. As one of those myself I have to say that it's a superb notebook.

This is probably the most accurate description I've seen. The two biggest differences between X300 and the other X-series ultraportables are the built-in optical drive (1) and the lack of the docking station port (2). A person who uses the computer on the desk a large percentage of the time, would be outraged by (2), and not care that much for (1) if it wasn't for (2). On the other hand, a purely mobile user who travels a lot but doesn't necessarily have a regular office would not care about (2), but would benefit greatly by (1).

wibbler23 wrote:I'm often at a loss to read posters talk about a system only having a processor running 1.2, 1.4, 2.1 etc. Many owners seem to fall into the trap of buying into the headline speed of their CPU defining the speed of their system. The speed of any computer system is defined by it's slowest component. In addition many software applications aren't really even optimised for multi-core environments.

And it is exactly those applications, which are not optimized, that will suffer the most from a slow CPU clock. In fact in some apps the 1.2GHz CPU of the X300 will lose even to the high-end Dothans in the "ancient" T42/T43. I agree that a slow hard drive can seriously cripple the system, often more than the slow CPU, but with all other things equal (and in most of today's laptops they are), the glaring CPU speed gap will make a big difference.

wibbler23 wrote:I can't recommend it highly enough. Now if only I could buy a W500 in the UK!

Now you contradict yourself. Being a purely mobile user, as you classify yourself, in what way would the big, heavy W500 suit you?

wibbler23 wrote:The X300's intended market is purely mobile business users. As one of those myself I have to say that it's a superb notebook.

No it's not.
A superb notebook would satisfy. This one has all sorts of strange issues. For one, who ever decided that the Control button and the Function button needed to switch places??? The IDIOT who made that one up should be shot, honestly.

Second, the screen is really terribly vague. Like I wrote earlier; I have an 8 year old Toshiba that has a better screen than this. That is utterly absurd.

Third. the fan is really quite noisy, compared to its size and the heat it should NOT generate, because it doesn't have that much CPU power inside, nor does it have a very hot harddisk.

I will definitely NOT say this is a "superb notebook" for "business users". The Panasonic CF-Y7 would be one, it's cheaper, has a bigger and better screen, is more silent and doesn't have the insane Function key on the Control key spot. Oh, and last but not least: It's much cheaper and can handle water on the keyboard!

mmm wrote:For one, who ever decided that the Control button and the Function button needed to switch places??? The IDIOT who made that one up should be shot, honestly.

thinkpads have had the exact same Fn/Ctrl key layout for the last 15 years.   this is nothing new.

erik wrote:thinkpads have had the exact same Fn/Ctrl key layout for the last 15 years.   this is nothing new.

Then they might want to consider changing that. It sucks. If I had known this beforehand, I would not have bought this notebook. Obviously most reviewers are thinkpad fanboys. I would have mentioned the strange key-layout as one of its most important negatives. And it's quite sad, because it is precisely the rest of the keyboard (AND its layout) that I like about thinkpads.

Mine also has some kind of weird jump-disease when I type. Sometimes it suddenly displaces the cursor without me touching anything other than the normal keys. Really annoying. I'm going to try and somehow return it. Waste of money and time this has been.

Now you contradict yourself. Being a purely mobile user, as you classify yourself, in what way would the big, heavy W500 suit you?

Not at all. I'm thinking of getting rid of my desktop and I'm looking for a desktop replacement to play the odd movie or game and run my VM's. I wouldn't recommend an X300 for that. As a mobile device that I can put in my bag and carry anywhere around with me it's been absolutely superb.

All I'm trying to suggest is that any mobile system is a compromise. The X300 packs in so many features and is an extremely balanced system. Your point about the Dothan is entirely true, there are several single core optimised apps that will run better on a Dothan than a Core 2. However simply viewing the performance of a system as it's only a 1.2ghz is very misleading.

Away from the world of synthetic benchmarks I run apps such as Visual Studio, SQL Server, MySQL and various Java IDE's and the X300 runs them all superbly. It often feels snappier than my quad core desktop!

If I'm honest and despite being a software developer I also fell into the 'nice PC but oh god look at the limited CPU'. Using the X300 has been a real eye opener.

I'm not trying dismiss everyone elses opinion on this thread, if a laptop isn't for you fair enough. The X300 is very, very expensive and I doubt Lenovo have sold that many. However it does represent along with a number of other ultraportable notebooks, the current cutting edge of mobile technology. We should applaud Lenovo for putting a model like this together.

After using it for several months the X300 has been an exceptional little machine and for mobile business users who need a system that runs the vast majority of app's with aplomb in an incredibly portable package there's a huge amount to recommend about the X300.

I'm still waiting for the W500 by the way. Maybe even a W700. A quad core notebook... you see there I go again.

mmm wrote:

wibbler23 wrote:The X300's intended market is purely mobile business users. As one of those myself I have to say that it's a superb notebook.

No it's not.
A superb notebook would satisfy. This one has all sorts of strange issues. For one, who ever decided that the Control button and the Function button needed to switch places??? The IDIOT who made that one up should be shot, honestly.

Second, the screen is really terribly vague. Like I wrote earlier; I have an 8 year old Toshiba that has a better screen than this. That is utterly absurd.

Third. the fan is really quite noisy, compared to its size and the heat it should NOT generate, because it doesn't have that much CPU power inside, nor does it have a very hot harddisk.

I will definitely NOT say this is a "superb notebook" for "business users". The Panasonic CF-Y7 would be one, it's cheaper, has a bigger and better screen, is more silent and doesn't have the insane Function key on the Control key spot. Oh, and last but not least: It's much cheaper and can handle water on the keyboard!

Again in your opinion the X300 hasn't met your requirements. That doesn't make it a bad computer. Personally I've tried to develop software using the CF-Y7 and found it to be a real slug. It's build quality was also second rate for a supposed toughbook from my experience. Nice screen though and it was nice to have 1400x1050 resolution. It's debatable if the X300 is a true ultraportable, the CF-Y7 clearly isn't. Both are very expensive.

However that doesn't make the CF-Y7 a bad laptop just not right for me.

I really don't think you could consider the X300 to be a noisy notebook, my Vaio TZ is considerably noisier.

I also disagree about the screen quality personally I rather like the screen.

The X300 has been ideal for me but not for you, sorry to hear about your experience.

As for the function key and control well then perhaps you should steer clear of Thinkpads completely? The location of these keys has been a long tradition with Thinkpad's and isn't a 'strange issue'.

mmm wrote:

erik wrote:thinkpads have had the exact same Fn/Ctrl key layout for the last 15 years.   this is nothing new.

Then they might want to consider changing that. It sucks. If I had known this beforehand, I would not have bought this notebook. Obviously most reviewers are thinkpad fanboys. I would have mentioned the strange key-layout as one of its most important negatives. And it's quite sad, because it is precisely the rest of the keyboard (AND its layout) that I like about thinkpads.

Mine also has some kind of weird jump-disease when I type. Sometimes it suddenly displaces the cursor without me touching anything other than the normal keys. Really annoying. I'm going to try and somehow return it. Waste of money and time this has been.

It's part of the Thinkpad design language. It's the same as demanding all Apples should have two trackpad buttons.

Clearly you're very disappointed about your Thinkpad experience and I'm sorry to hear about that. As I said buying and owning a notebook is a very personal thing. Luckily enough there are numerous different makes out there each with their own quirks. I hope you have a better experience with your next PC.

mmm wrote:
I will definitely NOT say this is a "superb notebook" for "business users". The Panasonic CF-Y7 would be one, it's cheaper, has a bigger and better screen, is more silent and doesn't have the insane Function key on the Control key spot. Oh, and last but not least: It's much cheaper and can handle water on the keyboard!

Not cheaper. I can get a new X300 for $1900 with the right coupon. I don't even know where to look to buy a CF-Y7, and the few vendors I see with them are selling them for at least $2400.

The CF-Y7 though is really the true water resistant keyboard. And I like the fact that's it's SXGA not widescreen.

I hate the fn/ctrl placement as well but I find that remapping the useless caps lock to ctrl works just as well.

Nebrie wrote:I hate the fn/ctrl placement as well but I find that remapping the useless caps lock to ctrl works just as well.

I don't find Caps Lock useless, and remapping it to Ctrl seems a silly thing to do. If it bothers you so much that the Ctrl key is offset a tad to the right from its original position by the Fn key, I cannot fathom how you can possibly live with the Ctrl key stuck two keys above its original position.

Or get the new Sony Z-series: 13.1" screen (thin bezel), 1600x900 resolution LED anti-glare display, carbon fiber + aluminum casing (3.4 lbs incl battery), ctrl on the outside (left) of fn key, 2.5mm keystroke travel (same as Thinkpads), Blu-Ray writeable option or DVD-RW, SSD option, HDMI port, SD slot.

I would say the Z-series totally wipes the X300, except for the lack of the trackpoint.

naus wrote:I would say the Z-series totally wipes the X300, except for the lack of the trackpoint.

That's a pretty big "except"

dr_st wrote:That's a pretty big "except"

Well but I expect Sony to not bother us with SuperCrappy (Lenovo could make that a tm ) display at least.

Puppy wrote:

dr_st wrote:That's a pretty big "except"

Well but I expect Sony to not bother us with SuperCrappy (Lenovo could make that a tm ) display at least.

I am not so sure. Most of the complains on the quality of the Lenovo displays is that they look very dull compared to the glossy displays equipped by 95% of the competition. When it comes to matte displays, I do not feel that Lenovo's are any worse than the rest of them.

Anything would pale in comparison to an IPS, but no one has IPS these days.

By the way, and I don't see anyone else mentioning this;

What's up with the terrible colors on this screen?

I have installed the Monitor's driver, the correct Intel graphics driver, but it looks awfully blue and cold, missing the reds like I've never seen before.

Man am I sorry to have bought this crap x300 hardware.

naus wrote:
Not cheaper. I can get a new X300 for $1900 with the right coupon. I don't even know where to look to buy a CF-Y7, and the few vendors I see with them are selling them for at least $2400.

The CF-Y7 though is really the true water resistant keyboard. And I like the fact that's it's SXGA not widescreen.

naus,

If I understood you correctly, you have hands on experience from the Panasonic Y7 and currently own the Lenovo X300. If that is the case you are the man I want to talk to.

I am considering my next notebook purchase and the two notebooks left on my shortlist are the upcoming X301 and the current Y7. Unfortunately, I will not be able to do a hands-on test with either machines.

I would be very grateful if you could elaborate somewhat more (than you already have) on your impressions of the Y7 vs the X300. I am especially interested in how you found the circular trackpad on the Y7 suited for work (including the circular scroll area) and some more details on how the screen looked compared to the X300.

jketzetera wrote:interested in how you found the circular trackpad on the Y7 suited for work (including the circular scroll area) and some more details on how the screen looked compared to the X300.

Well I've seen and touched both. The Y7 screen is larger, the pixel density a little smaller than that of the X300, but I wouldn't have noticed that if someone had asked me that before checking their resolutions.

I'd say the Panasonic panel is superb to work with. Much wider viewing angles, better colors too. It doesn't have the extreme lighting the x300 has, but I would not miss that, since the contrast is clearly higher (the blacks are blacker) on the Y7 screen.

Keyboard of the Y7 feels better to me, the keys of the x300 need more pressure, definitely.

You can get some really good deals on ebay for the Panasonic.