Thinkpads Forum

is the x200s screen much better then the one on the x200? I have heard lots of negative reviews on the screen of the x200 and am a little concerned about ordering since I can't see these machines before ordering.


I'd be willing to spend the extra if it means getting a good display.

My current machine is a 14" t42 which I don't believe have the flexview and want to make sure I am getting something that isn't any worse.

I am very disappointed in the screen on my work dell 630. The contrast is terrible when doing video work.

ellinj wrote:is the x200s screen much better then the one on the x200?

Why it supposed to be ? Both are TN crap panel. Typical "contrast" of current notebook displays is 150:1, so ...

Puppy wrote:

ellinj wrote:is the x200s screen much better then the one on the x200?

Why it supposed to be ? Both are TN crap panel. Typical "contrast" of current notebook displays is 150:1, so ...

I thought the x200s was LED?

ellinj wrote:is the x200s screen much better then the one on the x200?

1280x800 CCFL 200 nit on X200
vs
1440x900 LED 250 nit on X200s

That looks quite a difference!

ellinj wrote:I thought the x200s was LED?

And ? The "LED backlight" buzzword has no infulence on display quality as long as outdated TN panel technology is used. It has to be repeated over and over. It is just another marketing trick to sell cheap crap.

I recommend reading this discussion http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p= ... ment-54905 especially post number 22, last paragraph. And also posts number 19 and 24 might help to understand the "LED" trickery.

Puppy wrote:

ellinj wrote:I thought the x200s was LED?

And ? The "LED backlight" buzzword has no infulence on display quality as long as outdated TN panel technology is used. It has to be repeated over and over. It is just another marketing trick to sell cheap crap.

I recommend reading this discussion http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p= ... ment-54905 especially post number 22, last paragraph. And also posts number 19 and 24 might help to understand the "LED" trickery.

Great link

So realistically how can I expect these two screens to compare to either the one on my Dell D630 or my old t42?

I never really had any objections to the screen on the t42, but this dell is terrible. It seems to only have black and not shades of grey.

Pictures in this review http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4718 should be used as a warning ...

It has been my understanding that there are two major trade offs between TN vs. LPS/VA in laptop use. The first is, as always, power, power, and power. It takes less energy to drive the single transistor needed in a TN matrix than the two in LPS/VA. So the TN is a cooler screen and draws less power. Since the screen is one of the biggest consistent power requirements that you use on a laptop, dropping even small percentages here is good for most people using a laptop on the road and not as a desktop replacment. Then you add the longevity and power of the backlight because both LPS and VA require a brighter backlight due to the fact that there is more "stuff" blocking the overall light-up area. So LED backlighting is basically a requirement for LPS/VA displays on a laptop, to keep the heat down and lower power consumption. I don't know about you, but almost frying an egg on my laptop screen is not a feature I care to gain.

The second I understand is toughness. With LPS/VA you have literally double the number of failure points. Not a big issue for my nice 24" widescreen sitting on my desk, but is an issue in a laptop that gets poked, prodded, dropped, etc. This will drop as technologies for building the LCDs gets better and overall circuit quality goes up over time. In other words, LPS/VA will become "hardened" for mobile use.

Lenovo's crowd has consistenly voted for longer battery life and cooler running laptops. Do I care so much if the guy in the seat next to mine on the plane gets a nice view? No. I would want to use my laptop for most of the flight from LAX to JFK. If I do need others to see it, that's why I can connect my laptop easily to a nice big screen or projector, when I have power available. It's also why my wife carries a IOGear Wireless USB to VGA adapter with her on her lecture tours.

TN is not necessarily a piece of crap. It is an effective techology being used to bridge the gap to a time with a better technology matures and can meet the same needs. You will see LPS/VA in laptops used as mobile desktops first. It will mature and make it into the truly mobile laptops later.

The X200 is exactly the type of machine that cannot use the current LPS/VA technology.

BTW, ellinj, my wife loves the screen on her X200. The quality of the images are great for a viewer in front of the laptop.

You are right in some points, rckrchrdsn, but not entirely accurate.

It is true that TN draws less power than IPS/VA, but the difference is not that big so as to render the technology unsuitable for laptops. From what I know, the actual difference between TN and IPS, with all other things being equal, is smaller, than, say, between an integrated and a discrete GPU, all other things equal.

Do we see that manufacturers stop offering discrete-GPUs? No way. They are and always will be there, as an option, and everyone will make their own tradeoffs of performance, battery life, and price, when choosing a laptop. Why cannot it be the same with quality screens? At least in the bigger, desktop-replacement laptops, as you yourself say.

Heat-wise, the screen type will have zero effect on the overall temperature of the machine. The screen itself may be a bit hotter to the touch, but far from "frying an egg on it". A non-issue in my book.

Regarding IPS/VA not being mature enough for mobile use, that's also not accurate. They have been for quite some time. We are not impatiently waiting for IPS to emerge in the laptop sector. We are lamenting the fact that it used to be available, and disappeared.

You say that the X200 is exactly the machine where you would want to stay away from IPS. While I understand your point of view, it is funny, since the X200 Tablet (as all previous Lenovo tablets) still has IPS, in the same general form factor that the X200. And no one would think of dropping the IPS on the tablet, because the demand for wide viewing angles is especially high when you use the computer in tablet mode.

Finally, regarding "TN not necessarily a piece of crap". While in a way, they are, the key point is that even not all TN screens are equal. Most desktop TN LCDs offer far better contrast and far wider viewing angles (even vertical) than laptop TN LCDs. So in some sence, it is precisely the laptop LCDs that Lenovo (and many other manufacturers) uses, that are a piece of crap, even compared to the average TN out there.

BTW, there do exist better TN screens, even for laptops. For instance, the screens on HP's mobile workstations, that they market as "Wide viewing angle (WVA)". Not IPS/VA by any means, but far better than what I have in my T60 here, and what I've witnessed on most other laptops I've seen.