Thinkpads Forum

I'm sadden that there are no more 4:3 screen X series. For those of you who upgraded from standard screen X series to the wide screen series, do you like the new wide screen of the X200 series?

madcow wrote:For those of you who upgraded from standard screen X series to the wide screen series ...

Ahh, but which wide screen one chooses makes a big difference! Setting aside any of the new features of the X200/s series, if one stays with the XGA-type resolution (width x 768), then there may not be a compelling reason to switch from the X6x/s series. However, if one looks at the WXGA+ resolution (width x 990), then the difference becomes more intriguing. What a lot of people wanted was a high-res X6x machine, and the WXGA+ on the X200s does that.

Two points, unrelated to the screen:
Battery life: I don't care for extended batteries which stick out of rear of the laptop. If one limits himself to a battery that fits the footprint of the machine, then the 4-cell (cylindrical, not slimline) battery of the X6x/s yields 2-2.5 hours. The similar battery on the X200s (there are 3 batteries: 2 fit the footprint, 1 sticks out), the larger of the two that fits the footprint, yields 5-6 hours! (Note: If one puts the largest battery on the X200s, then one gets 10+ hours.)

Heat and Noise: The X60/s machines were dead silent, albeit not cool. The X61/s machines were not silent because the fan ran continuously. Well, the X200s machines are both silent and cool.

I do not like the wide format. Whenever I use my X301, I always feel that something is missing on the top and I can not browse the entire page without using page down/up. If I zoom out, the text will be too small. I prefer to use my X60T, especially that I can rotate it 90 degree so that a normal PDF/word document fits perfectly for full page view.

Wide screen is good for watching movie though.

I most certainly prefer the 4x3 format over a widescreen. The additional vertical scrolling required is simply more than I care to live with. But alas, with widescreen being the dominant format, what's a user to do?

I purchased a T61p with 4:3 screen and with Vista Business 64-bit before critical 64-bit software was even ready. The purpose of pre-buying was purely to get a 4:3 screen. .... JDH

jdhurst wrote:I purchased a T61p with 4:3 screen and with Vista Business 64-bit before critical 64-bit software was even ready. The purpose of pre-buying was purely to get a 4:3 screen. .... JDH

Yes, precisely... I purposely bought both the T60 and T60p, to insure I had both hi-res choices in the 4:3 IPS that I prefer. In fact it's the very reason I have since purchased some other new ThinkPads to use for less mission critical work. My goal is to keep the run times down on my beloved T60 series IPS models, in hopes of them lasting as long as possible. In addition, I have been steadfast in my use of XP Pro.

Forgive me as this is a bit off topic, but how do you like Vista Business?

Although I generally prefer 4:3 over widescreens for everything between 14'' and 16'', I think a widescreen on a 12'' (12.1'') notebook is not sooo bad, actually I could live with it in full inner peace, but that´s only my personal preference. It actually very much depends on what you are going to do on your laptop. I believe for a regular use like some Office, Internet, watching some videos or pics, the wide screen format is ceteris paribus ok, because you can cover the whole screen with a straight look (unlike for the bigger sizes).

archer6 wrote:<snip>
Forgive me as this is a bit off topic, but how do you like Vista Business?

I made Vista work the look and convenience of XP and now I like it. I put it in production in mid-September, continue the ugrades and since November until now, Perfmon shows a reliability score in excess of 9.

The only application not running properly is Cain (oxid.it) because it is not yet a 64-bit application. It will become such in due course. I upgraded all the remaining applications I had. .... JDH

jdhurst wrote:The only application not running properly is Cain (oxid.it) because it is not yet a 64-bit application.

And who has Abel?... In some countries this piece of software is illegal... AFAIK the "suite" in general doesn´t work under any edition of Vista (I might be wrong though, or someone has updated it in the mean while), have never tried it in a XP VM though...

Sorry for going so much off topic

Marin

i don't like widescreen at all. the hardest part of going from my t60 to x300 was not the screen quality but going from 4:3 to widescreen.

cain runs great on vista-64, you just have to execute it as admin.

I seem to be in a minority here: I like widescreens because they offer more space. I use the side of the screen to position the Windows taskbar or the toolbars of a program, and the widescreen lets me put two windows side by side comfortably.

My previous laptops were not Thinkpads because of the poor resolution of the X Series (seriously, 1024x768? My 1997 15" CRT was more spacious). I am know the happy owner of a X200s and I love it. Even 1280x800 is a step forward from XGA : everyone seems to be complaining about less vertical space, but I don't see how a screen with the same vertical resolution and more pixels horizontally can offer less space or make you scroll more.

martin255 wrote:Even 1280x800 is a step forward from XGA : everyone seems to be complaining about less vertical space, but I don't see how a screen with the same vertical resolution and more pixels horizontally can offer less space or make you scroll more.

When you're comparing 1280x800 to XGA, that's true, the screen gives you more space. However, my 14.1" T60 has an SXGA+ (1400x1050) resolution and to get a widescreen with a similar height I would have to go for 1680x1050 which would have been at least 15.4" - way too big for me. That's why I stick with 4:3 - it gives me a reasonably tall screen (which I need not only for less scrolling) while keeping the size of the notebook down.

On the other side, if I'm ever to get an external widescreen monitor for my notebook, I'll probably go for widescreen (WSXGA+ or more) and then I'll find a way to use this additional horizontal space somehow, if only to watch movies.

and you can see entire webpage with 4:3, with widescreen you gotta do more scrollin.g

yak, point taken. I only use ultraportables so I don't know much about regular laptops. It seems that while goind widescreen, manufacturers also switched to lower resolution screens.

mattbiernat, I read this often but I don't understand it. Here are two screenshots of the same webpage in Firefox :

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/602349/XGA.jpg
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/602349/WXGA.jpg

How does the 16:9 resolution require more scrolling?

blackomegax wrote:cain runs great on vista-64, you just have to execute it as admin.

It runs, but the cracking function (you need the rainbow tables first) doesn't work in 64-bit. Mao is aware of it and there are threads on the subject at the oxid.it forum.

BTW, Cain is a well-respected security tool. Any comments I make about it are in search of security and secuity practices. .... JDH

jdhurst wrote:BTW, Cain is a well-respected security tool.

Yup, no doubt both Cain&Abel are great utilities, I just happen to know a guy who had some problems because of that despite using them in a *legal* way (as a sys admin), just bad luck, but it wasn´t something serious though and had a Happy End BTW, I haven´t looked at these utilities for a long time now, maybe it´s time to see what has changed since... (sorry for the off-topic)

On topic: Regarding widescreens I noticed if one uses programs that use some sort of sidebars, side windows, subwindows on the side, toolboxes on the side etc, like Matlab, Visual Studio (or other IDE), LaTeX etc. one doesn´t actually use the sides that much but they are there and utilize the additional space while one basically a 4:3 cut from the screen where the main work window (so to say, where you type the code) is placed. In such a way, widescreens are simply extended 4:3 utilizing the additional space on the sides for things that are needed but not essential for the work. What is more important, they don´t take space from your improvised 4:3 screen. BTW, I think that applies to internet browsers if you open all the bookmarks or history on the side.

Marin

jdhurst wrote:<snip>I made Vista work the look and convenience of XP and now I like it.

I really like your idea of making it like XP, and will try this on the W500 I just ordered (for testing purposes) with the Vista Business / XP Pro downgrade pkg.

Cheers...

martin255 wrote:(...) It seems that while goind widescreen, manufacturers also switched to lower resolution screens.

mattbiernat, I read this often but I don't understand it. (...) How does the 16:9 resolution require more scrolling?

The manufacturers have certainly changed the aspect ratio which means that on a screen with the same pixel density you have less vertical resolution and thus you have to scroll more. To keep the original vertical resolution you have to:
(1) buy a bigger notebook that has the same pixel density and the same vertical resolution but a larger horizontal one,
(2) go for a similarly sized notebook but with a higher pixel density screen so that in the end effect you have the same vertical resolution.

In all other cases and this include getting a similarly priced notebook, you loose vertical resultion and have to scroll more. That's why everybody keep repeating it.

I've never been a fan of the widescreen format (well..except for maybe the big 24'' and 30'' LCD monitors), especially for laptops. As everyone else has said, the widescreen format unnecessarily widens what I would like to be a portable laptop.

I was able to overlook this portability issue with the x200s simply because of its crazy lightness and the fact that it had decent 1440x900 resolution. Otherwise, I'd really be in a bind and I'd probably just resort to sticking with my old T30 and upgrading its innards.

I agree with other posters: it's sad that we have to get larger laptops just to get the same equivalent vertical resolution as we could have previously with 4:3 LCD laptops. It's also sad how little progress has been made in terms of laptop screen real estate since my T30 came out 6 years ago: you could have bought my T30 with the 1440x1050 screen back then and had more pixels to play with than my x200s.

Oh well. But anyway, wasn't the whole justification for switching to the wide-screen format because it is more cost-effective for LCD manufacturers (can get higher yield and less waste by making screens in a 16:9 or 16:10 format than 4:3)?

g1tigi wrote:It's also sad how little progress has been made in terms of laptop screen real estate since my T30 came out 6 years ago: you could have bought my T30 with the 1440x1050 screen back then and had more pixels to play with than my x200s.

The problem is that there is a fine balance between real estate and usable pixel pitch. Like it or not, but for many people anything over SXGA+ on 14.1" will be unusable because of the eyestrain. I am not sure I want to use WXGA+ or SXGA+ on 12.1" on a daily basis. My eyesight is just fine, but I'd like to keep it that way.

Today I saw x301 personally. I was so disappointed.

The higher resolution does not give me more real estate as its totally uncomfortable to use. I changed Vista DPI to 125% and then was able to read on its screen without eyestrain.

From vertical perspective, it's an 11'' screen. And only that was enough to not buy it instinctly. x40 which was next to x301 gave me a far superior impression. It was as light and there was more real estate screen. If you already have a x30/x40/x60, the x301 is the same screen when you enlarge right and left borders and skip vertically 1 inch, as around much height as Windows Taskbar needs.

Mostly else was fine. Why they included touchpad I do not know. It's not as good as touchpad from newer Macbooks. It was around as light as the x40.

My x60 placing next to the x301, I could not stand thinking of downgrading when replacing my x60 with the x301. It's good for movies on the road or "here are my pictures from last summer".

The problem with widescreen and web-surfing is that the page designers are not following the same pattern.

For example... almighty LENOVO... in all its wisdom, has decided to produce 100% widescreen laptops... but do you think that they have changed their webpage to a widescreen layout?

Nope, half my screen is empty and white... so so so so silly.
even this posting page has half of my screen with ads at the top... why not put the [censored] ads on the side?

B

bojangles wrote:Nope, half my screen is empty and white... so so so so silly.

That's what I call "screen real estate". It the screen size you'll most likely use. x301 has 11'' I will always use. x60 has 12'' I'll use.

According to lenovo blogs, bezels are hiding new WWAN antennas. But why the bezel below screen? Is there a WWAN, too? And the side-bezels: Are they created for showing the nice "Batterie completely loaded" LEDs if you close it? But nevermind if you take a look at W700. It really must have such a good WWAN connection

I am willing to pay around 3.000 $ but they cheat with this lcd