Talk me out of it!!!! Lenovo or Apple.....

[LenovoGringo]

I've always been a Thinkpad fan. I love their keyboard/trackpoint combo and the software that comes with the laptops. I'm in the market for a portable laptop and recently I have been considering getting a X301, but a glimpse over at Apple (the Dark side?) has me wondering.... The 13.3" Macbook Pro has a MUCH better screen, much faster processor, way better graphics, longer battery life, SD slots, and OS X plus the capability to run Windows (7RC for free to boot) all in a similarly thin package (0.95") as the Lenovo X301. What really shocked me was the price. You can easily get a MBP for around $1000 without even trying. Only refurbished Lenovo X301s come close to that price AND they forego the $400+ aftermarket DVD drive. Even the Macbook Air has better hardware than the X301 at a similar price point as the MBP (around $1000). You can't even get a Lenovo X301 with 54000rpm HDD for that much. And I'm not even mentioning the deeper University discounts and free accessories (Ipod Touch and Printer) that comes with any Apple.

Apple support is outstanding too. It's too bad that I'm feeling that all the X301 has is a better keyboard. And deep in my heart, I actually like the Thinkpad style over the flashy MBPs.... But for $500-$700 more? I'm a person who has never previously even considered an Apple product (I mean, I don't even have an ipod/iphone). I also absolutely LOVE the fact that Apple has their pricing correct; smaller models (13.3") are actually CHEAPER than bigger models. I think I realize why everyone at the University is converting to Apple. It is a very sad fact.........

The more research I do though, the more I'm drawn away from the X300 series. Even the new T400S promises to be thinner than the current X301.

I still have hope for Lenovo though. There has to be several compelling reasons to be loyal to 'my' brand.... I need help and am hoping that many of you share your insights.

Thanks

[ZaZ]

I don't know that the screen is all that great compared to other screens. It's glossy so it will have a lot of glare to it. If you want a good screen, get the tablet.

[dr_st]

I also read the Macbook Pro review, and indeed it looks like one of the best Macbooks so far, if not the best.

When comparing it to the X301, both have some advantages and disadvantages.

For reference:

Thinkpad X301 NBR Review
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4603

13" Macbook Pro NBR Review
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=5105

CPU and GPU performance: MBP will blow X301 out of the water, no questions asked.

Screen: Not as clear-cut as you may think. Sure lots of bad water has been spilled on these forums (and not only here) about the X301 screen quality, but the MBP does not seem to be all that better. Perceptive contrast is the only thing that will probably be better (in part due to the glossy coating), but the viewing angles don't seem better at all (refer to reviews), and the glare is bothering under certain conditions. Also, the X301 screen is higher res, which is an important advantage for some (albeit a possible disadvantage for those with weaker eyesight).

Battery life: MBP has an advantage, not an overwhelming one, but it exists. This can be partially by using an Ultrabay battery for the X301, in lieu of the optical drive. Also, as reported in the review, the battery life of the MBP in Windows is not as stellar as in MacOS, due to poor power management functions in the driver.

Ports: A mixed bag here. MBP has Firewire and the SD Card Reader. However, overall I think the X301 has the advantage here, with VGA, DisplayPort (don't forget, Mac's Mini-DP is not a standard port, and only works with a proprietary Apple adapter!), 3 vs 2 USB ports, and better placed ones. The ones on the MBP are so close to one another, that for many practical purposes you only have one USB. As far as business-grade expansion goes, both are equally poor with no PCMCIA/ExpressCard and no docking capabilities.

Build quality: I think both are going to be very very solid, shouldn't have issues with either one.

Keyboard: Apple's keyboards are very solid with no flex whatsoever (due to the unibody construction too). Typing on them takes a bit getting used to, but is mostly fine once you do. However, the layout is different. Apple layout is naturally more tuned towards MacOS, and lacks some commonly used Windows keys (Home/End/Pgup/Pgdn). The X301 keyboard is the classic Thinkpad layout, which is excellent too.

Mouse: In the world of touchpads, no one can beat Apple's multi-touch. However, the X301 has a serious advantage in the form of a trackpoint, which I, like most on these forums, find far superior. But this is mostly personal preference. One or the other laptop will be better for you, depending on your preference for input device.

Weight: Don't forget that factor! The MBP weighs 2.05kg, while the X301 is only 1.5kg, and can be taken down to a ridiculous 1.33kg with small battery and no optical drive. This is quite a big difference for notebooks in the same size category.

Temperature: Another advantage to the X301. The MBP seems to run noticeably hotter according to the NBR reviews. Or to be more precise, the aluminum body does a good job of transferring the heat to you.

Looks and design: No sense arguing. Some prefer this, others prefer that. Both laptops are sleek each in their own way.

Heh, I think this summary won't make the decision any easier.

Bottom line, IMO, the decision between a Mac and a PC is far simpler, if you think about the OS you plan to use. Fundamentally, a Mac will function better with MacOS, and a PC is better geared towards working with Windows. If you intend to run Windows, don't get a Mac. Some of the cool features will be wasted, and on the other hand the usability will be diminished (due to factors like keyboard and battery life mentioned above).

Good luck with your decision.

[AvalonXIII]

Here's several points to consider as well:

Glossy Macbook Pro's screen: http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/16/appl ... eport-war/

Macbook Pros have speed limited to SATA-I: http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/15/new- ... ata-chips/

[archer6]

I still have hope for Lenovo though. There has to be several compelling reasons to be loyal to 'my' brand.... I need help and am hoping that many of you share your insights.

I have quite a few new (less than 6mo. old) ThinkPads and a new MacBook Pro. I've used ThinkPads for over a decade as my laptop of choice for work and most everything else. Yet that said, I've bought many new PowerBooks, now MacBook Pro's in that same time frame. The only reason I bought a Mac (in the beginning) was because a close friend worked for them and gave me his employee discount to acquire a new PowerBook 140. At just over 50% off at the time, I simply could not pass up a chance to see what Apple was like. Providing enough variety and differences to keep my interest, I've used them as a secondary personal machine all along. So my only point is I can speak from experience when addressing your question. As we all know choosing a laptop is a very personal decision. I have nothing bad to say about the new Unibody MBP, nor do I have anything to rave about either. If not for the substantial discount I still enjoy when purchasing them I would not own one today. Why? The glossy display is dreadful. The reflection is very annoying and limits the amount of time I can spend on the computer. Beyond that it's not a bad laptop. Not as good as it's hyped to be, but that's to be expected as Apple has always displayed unbridled arrogance which they use to convince others that Steve Jobs's reality distortion field is the real truth.

Lenovo? Well, sadly I cannot give them the raving reviews I would like. Having used them since the IBM days when customer service was exemplary, web site content was accurate, and the entire experience was better than today, it's just not what it used to be. That said, I remain a strong ThinkPad Advocate, who's simply along for the ride at this point, like so many others. Hopefully we will see a return to total competence and concern for the customer. Who knows what the future will bring? I do know this. In the same decade I've referenced, I've also owned many new notebooks from Asus, Panasonic, Dell, HP, Gateway, Sony, Samsung, Fujitsu, MSI and Toshiba, and none of those come close to a ThinkPad. Thus my priority is ThinkPad first, and MacBook Pro a very distant second.


Cheers...

[LenovoGringo]

Thanks for the encouraging replies....

Both are great laptops, but.... I just can't get over the price of the X301. Hey, one of the main points of those PC commercials is that a comparable PC is cheaper than a Mac. I guess you shouldn't believe everything on TV

Looking at it the other way, I just can't believe Apple can make a similar and more powerful product so much more cheaply than Lenovo can (with or without the SSD option to boot). With the current price points, I personally would feel really stupid getting a X300/301 (all of the extra cash I could have saved!!).... I guess that's too bad.....

[archer6]

Thanks for the encouraging replies....

Both are great laptops, but.... I just can't get over the price of the X301. Hey, one of the main points of those PC commercials is that a comparable PC is cheaper than a Mac. I guess you shouldn't believe everything on TV

Looking at it the other way, I just can't believe Apple can make a similar and more powerful product so much more cheaply than Lenovo can (with or without the SSD option to boot). With the current price points, I personally would feel really stupid getting a X300/301 (all of the extra cash I could have saved!!).... I guess that's too bad.....

So save money, buy the mac. An easy way to go.

[qviri]

.

[crazyfrog]

I don't know if it is just me who has a problem with Appple's metal body (including some Dell and Acer I used to work with).

I've tried MBP and Mac Air a few times at an apple centre (I really like to drop in whenever I passed by it) in centrol London. Both laptops gave me sort of electric shock. My fingers always numb a little when I swept the aluminum body with my hand. And if I touched the laptops quickly, especially on the aluminum edges, I get a feeling of bite.

With thinkpads, I've never had that kind of problem.

[archer6]

Another clear disadvantage of the aluminum is the way it interferes with Wi-Fi range & performance. Since I own one I speak from experience when I say that the system is truly sub-par. And it's not just the Unibody models, as it began when Apple switched from plastic to aluminum for the PowerBook line years ago. I also have a Black Plastic MacBook, and it's wireless performance is far superior. My new MBP's poor wireless is particularly noticeable to me because I use Wi-Fi everywhere, every day, with my ThinkPad which offers a stellar wireless experience unlike any other brand of notebook I own.
.
Cheers...

[ssd_thinkpad]

I was too in the market for an ultraportable notebook, am very picky about noise and displays and bought a x301. Because of its inferior display I gave it back and now type on a much heavier T60. Other than the display, the x301 is outstanding. I have never seen a notebook with this build quality. If the glossy display of the apple worries you very much, you can buy a filter you put in front of this display. 3M Anti-Glare Computer Filters say they can reduce glare up to 99% .

Consider that the x301 weights 1,5 kg and the 13 inch Macbook Pro 2 kg. You might consider a T400 that weights around the same 2 kg when you remove its optical drive (you can do that in few seconds) and has not the display flickering I always see from the x300 series in youtube.

I am very happy with my thinkpad, it is sturdy, has build in wwan (not available on apples notebook line) and great display & keyboard. Wi-Fi reception is outstanding. There are so much tools to enhance your thinkpad, for example the great fan controlling softwares. With these, I run my thinkpad 99,99% of my time fanless. But if I were in the markets today: The new macbooks with the additional anti glare filter do look attractive, too.

[LenovoGringo]

Well, I finally decided.........

Despite my pessimistic nature towards Thinkpads I found a deal on a X300 that I was able to go through with! On one hand, I knew that if I got the MBP I will always have that lingering feeling about the X300. On the other, I thought I would have missed the money...... Decided to trade one of my laptops in for a X300 plus some extra cash.

I'll let everyone know what I think about my new Thinkpad once it gets in.

[archer6]

Why buy something you don't like?

[LenovoGringo]

^^^ Don't really know what you mean there..... I never said that I didn't like the X300; all I said was that I hated the price/performance ratio.

[archer6]

^^^ Don't really know what you mean there..... I never said that I didn't like the X300; all I said was that I hated the price/performance ratio.

Oh, I thought that based on the long, detailed posts that you had your mind made up. It seemed that you were determined to find as much wrong with the ThinkPad as possible to justify going to Apple. Perhaps I simply misunderstood your goal. Don't get me wrong, as I own a lot of Apple laptops, have used them for years as secondary personal machines, and have nothing against Apple other disliking the arrogance and hype that oozes out of the Cupertino Company.

Cheers...

[LenovoGringo]

No worries, I can easily see where you are getting at.... In general, lets just say that I'm not cool enough to own a X300.

[archer6]

No worries, I can easily see where you are getting at.... In general, lets just say that I'm not cool enough to own a X300.

Ten points for your humor.....

Cheers...

[curious]

Anyone facing the same choice should also take a look at the Sony line of business ultraportables. Some are available with matt screens; and the screens are usually of high quality (for a TN screen, that is), with good contrast and reasonable viewing angles. I definitely have to give the nod to Sony (and to a lesser extent Apple) when it comes to screen quality. Unfortunately, the screens on the X-series Thinkpads (with the exception of the tablet model) are about the worst quality I have ever seen--poor contrast and very poor vertical viewing angle.

Sony uses the same "chicklet" style keyboard as the new Apple laptops. While it isn't my preference, after typing on it for a bit (either Sony or Apple), I have to admit my typing seemed as accurate as on a keyboard with traditional scalloped keys.

For anyone interested in a 12" screen, I would also recommend looking at the Toshiba A605-P210. It has a reasonably good keyboard and a great matt screen (for a TN, that is). (From reviews I have read, I suspect it may not be the same screen as in some of the other A600-line laptops.) When I came across one at Frys, I was so impressed that I took it home It also includes an internal DVD drive, while keeping the machine thin and light (so do some of the Sony's).

[VipFreak]

Aww... I'm a bit late. Oh well, won't stop me from putting my two cents in.

First...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hnOCUkbix0

Second...

Two words REMOVABLE BATTERY.

lol

[archer6]

After over a decade of ThinkPads, Apples, and nearly every other brand, I can sum it up in one word:

ThinkPad

Cheers...