Thinkpads Forum

As a former IBM employee, it's a huge disappointment. Guess I'll use my old X31 until it falls apart.

Wow, you certainly think highly of yourself. You took the time to write an entire web page (with custom graphic) to complain about one missed repair. In fact it went beyond a missed repair, you made it about a company who doesn't understand it's customers and therefore doesn't deserve your loyalty. In today's world (this is not your father's IBM), Lenovo is a bright spot in customer awareness and service. You just need to get to know them. The x200s is a superb laptop. Give service another chance. One missed repair is not even close to being an earth shattering event.....'S' happens. Have you considered the fact that the audio glitch might just be a driver problem 'Professor'?

Harryc

Thanks for your reply (I think). I realize that most individuals who post to this site are advocates of ThinkPads (as I once was). As a reader of this forum, it has proven to be invaluable in the past with regard to tweaking and understanding my other eight ThinkPads. However, if you step back and read/think about the post again, hopefully you can see the root issue here and realize my frustration.

By the way, note that I am completely pleased with my (still working) X31s, of which I own three. Perhaps my post should read "The Last Lenovo ThinkPad I will Ever Own" since (fortunately) I can still find IBMs on eBay. Incidentally, I never once had problems with my IBMs save for a failed R40 motherboard in 2005 (turned out to be a power surge) which was handled quickly and expertly by IBM -- in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam of all places.

I'm not sure how taking time to write a blog post and spending 30 seconds in Photoshop to create a graphic correlates with thinking highly of myself. Rather, I think (thought) highly of the product such that I would spend time doing that in the first place. Posting such grievances is a common practice in the world of social media. It works, as we can see here. Truth is, Lenovo botched this no matter which way you cut it. The "missed repair" is uncalled for. This is not a complex problem. It is easy to re-create. Someone simply did not test the unit (basic QA) prior to shipping it back. Even the phone reps were stunned.

I agree that the missed repair is not the earth-shattering event here. What is the earth-shattering event is the blow-off I received by two reps and a supervisor at Lenovo who had the chance to totally change this situation and keep a customer for life. They've now lost that opportunity, as well as the profit twice over (the unit was purchased at government/institutional rate) and created this controversy to boot. It would have been easier to make an exception to policy and either send somebody out or escalate the issue. Doing the same thing that I had already done is silly. The "only thing" they said they could do was send me an RMA to return the unit to an "escalated" service center close to Minnesota -- not the Flextronics contractor down in Memphis. Despite this promise from the customer service supervisor, it never happened. It went right back to the place that couldn't repair it in the first place.

Have you considered the fact that the audio glitch might just be a driver problem 'Professor'?

Yes I did. In fact, that was my first thought. Which is why I did a complete factory restore, replaced and upgraded the driver, and then did it once again at Lenovo's request when I called them. It was conclusive (after speaking with four reps) that it was not a software/driver issue.

While your tone leaves a bit to be desired, at least you replied and I appreciate the effort. It's more than anybody at Lenovo has done.

Best,

Scott

Someone simply did not test the unit (basic QA) prior to shipping it back

Ok, now we're speaking on terms that I can understand. So, one employee in a company of roughly 23,000 employees with a hugh product portfolio and a worldwide footprint and a long legacy of quality products and service had a bad day and mis-diagnosed Professor Scott's X200s. Based on that mis-diagnosis by one employee, the good professor relegated the entire Lenovo company and one of it's flagship products to the trash bin through his 'social media' experiment. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but think about how absurd that is. As an example that I think you might relate to I offer the following. Lets assume that I am one of your students. Lets also assume that you work at a large University with say 3000 employees. I take one of your classes and on a paper that I turn in you give me a failing grade when it was obviously decent work in my mind. I try to reason with you and your Department Head to possibly correct the situation, but you all either aren't listening that day or don't care to hear what I am saying because you are busy helping other students. Instead of trying again tomorrow (or resubmit) as one might reasonably expect, I post a huge grievance on the University website, and I also contact the local news media to report unfair practices by Professor Scott and I mention that the entire faculty at the University is corrupt because of his actions. I offer my paper as proof, and the reporters that I talk to agree it is good work (social media at it's best). The story hits the local papers the next day. Doesn't matter if it is true or not, your name and your University's name are tarnished publicly. Isn't that equal in some way to what you are doing? It's just a missed repair and you are over reacting.

cscottrader wrote:Guess I'll use my old X31 until it falls apart.

And then what?

In my two decades of ThinkPad purchasing, use and service, I'd say the service has been somewhat hit or miss, but mostly hit. The important point being that when there was a miss, IBM or Lenovo have always kept working until the problem was fixed.

I agree that it'd be preferrable if every problem could be fixed the first time and it really is a shame that some units are returned without cure, but I do understand that 1) human nature is involved, 2) pressure to keep costs down are ever-present, and 3) there are far more models and types of ThinkPads that need to be handled than ever before, making diagnosis and repair even more challenging.

My most recent experience with Lenovo repair was for an R60 with one broken latch. I didn't really know if broken latches were covered, but I called the same repair number I've been using for well over a decade - 1-800-IBM-SERV. The rep. said it was covered and I had the box the next day. I shipped the machine back the same day. It was repaired the next day and I had it back by 10 a.m. on the third day. How did this 100% covered repair go? They replaced the entire LCD lid assembly, LCD bezel and keyboard - all with new parts. I suppose the keyboard was a little shiny but I didn't mention anything about it to the rep. The machine looks new now. I'm thinking that's pretty good service, maybe still better than the competitors.

Looking back over 20 years of service calls, I'd say every one was handled satisfactorily - and many exceeded expectations. I'm sticking with ThinkPads.

Harryc wrote:I try to reason with you and your Department Head to possibly correct the situation, but you all either aren't listening that day or don't care to hear what I am saying because you are busy helping other students.

It's a good analogy Harry, but the above-quoted condition is the difference. This scenario can (and certainly does) happen. But given what students pay for their tuition at our university (i.e. what I paid for a ThinkPad versus, let's say Dell) predicates much higher service level expectations from faculty and certainly administration. Are we perfect? No. Do people slip through the cracks? Sure. But long before a situation like this gets to a department head, faculty are empowered to resolve problems -- especially if it is an "A+" student (i.e. long-term, happy customer). Again, I don't think we're connecting here and I'll completely take the blame because perhaps I didn't emphasize the real problem. There were three reps and one supervisor (who I was finally allowed to speak to, reluctantly) in the process who could have solved my problem. While friendly enough, they either did not want to or were not empowered to help. That's the issue. Not the "one in 23,000" scenario you describe. I agree with you completely on that -- that "S" does happen. I'm not an old stodgy professor who sits in an ivory tower sheltered from reality. As with most business school professors, I worked for many years, and most of that time was for IBM in Westchester, New York. All of that time was working with hardware and software so I know the quirks and the impossibility of perfection. You simply cannot have 0% failure rate. But you can have 100% customer service, especially after it has been escalated and you understand the long-term value of the customer.

Thanks again for your input.

Scott

cscottrader wrote:Guess I'll use my old X31 until it falls apart.

qviri wrote:And then what?

That's a good question qviri. My wife and I have three X31s between us, and I still have my bulkier T- and R-series. We do research in rural Vietnam and the ThinkPads have traveled around the globe and back many times -- subjected to some extreme (I hate to say almost abusive) conditions. We've had no issues. So, hopefully we'll just keep using them. The problem is they are "slowing down" as the software market moves forward. I keep them super-tweaked (OS, apps) so they are as fast as I can possibly get them. But the time is nigh when they'll be inadequate. To avoid Lenovo, I am probably going to scour eBay in search of IBM X-series machines. Otherwise, I might make the switch to Apple. From the sidelines, I've seen good things, but it means giving up my "tank."

I predict a happy ending to this situation, one in which you may be surprised at the lengths Lenovo will go to to see that one of their larger customers (education) is taken care of. All I ask is that if you are delighted at the end of the process, that you return here and let us know what happened (without mentioning names). As a side note, I too am an Ex-IBMer with 23 years working in the Westchester Cty. NY area. Also worth mentioning is the fact that this site is privately funded and run by volunteers and enthusiasts. It has no direct ties to either IBM or Lenovo. The only reason I mention this is so that you know who your audience is ...
Good luck.

Harryc: I hope you are right. Hence the reason I'm going to all of this trouble. Problem is, in my experience I would have never needed to do this before. Although I said I never had problems from my previous IBM TP's, that doesn't mean I never had to call. When I did, the service was incredible -- I would say "unexpected." For example, I once changed hard drives and realized (my dumb mistake) that I let my factory partition go with the old drive. With the TP completely out of warranty, mind you, IBM sent me a five CD set of custom-made install discs for my make and model. Overnight. Their dime. That's one of many ThinkPad stories I've used over the years (along with my incredible Vietnam problem and resolution). So, given my experience, something has changed with the Lenovo transition. Let's see if they respond.

One thing the fancy schmancy research will tell you is that one of the biggest triggers for loyalty is not only good service in the first place, but recovering from a foul. It's been shown that in doing so, customers become even stronger advocates. Basically, we're forgiving people and we'll spread the word on a company that recovers satisfactorily just as much or moreso than one who failed.

Best,

Scott

(P.S. Now I'm trying to figure out if I know you. With IBM I was in White Plains and Yorktown data center most of the time -- from 1992-2000. You?)

I was in White Plains from 1976 through 1998. I worked at 44 S. Broadway, 600 Mamaroneck, Hutch Corporate Park. I was a Field Engineer for many years. Watson was one of my accounts, so its possible we ran into each other.

cscottrader wrote:Harryc: I hope you are right. Hence the reason I'm going to all of this trouble. Problem is, in my experience I would have never needed to do this before.

It's kind of curious that you took this route before asking for help in the Lenovo's forum first and that you started it in the middle of the night on a weekend at that.

JaneL wrote:It's kind of curious that you took this route before asking for help in the Lenovo's forum first and that you started it in the middle of the night on a weekend at that.

Actually, I didn't realize Lenovo had the forum. This is always the one I come to for ThinkPad stuff. I went to their site and looked and it wasn't readily evident. I even Googled and it doesn't come up in the search (using string "thinkpad forum"). If you know how Google works, this tells you that Lenovo's "official" forum is not nearly as popular as this one. I did eventually find it by poking around on their site. I posted basically the same thread over there.

As far as being the middle of the night on a weekend, I'm not sure what you're getting at there. The week was busy and the weekend is my free time. ?

To be honest, HarryC and others here on the forum were faster to the draw than anyone at Lenovo.

Harryc wrote:I was in White Plains from 1976 through 1998. I worked at 44 S. Broadway, 600 Mamaroneck, Hutch Corporate Park. I was a Field Engineer for many years. Watson was one of my accounts, so its possible we ran into each other.

Holy cow. OK, I was in 440 Hamilton (across from AT&T) from early 90s to ... somewhere around '98 (?) Then 44 South Broadway and the data center up in Yorktown (actually Yorktown Heights) until I left. But if you don't recognize my name, guess we weren't acquainted. I worked with Prodigy mostly. Handled quality control and customer service escalations to the CEO.

cscottrader wrote:For example, I once changed hard drives and realized (my dumb mistake) that I let my factory partition go with the old drive. With the TP completely out of warranty, mind you, IBM sent me a five CD set of custom-made install discs for my make and model. Overnight. Their dime. That's one of many ThinkPad stories I've used over the years (along with my incredible Vietnam problem and resolution). So, given my experience, something has changed with the Lenovo transition. Let's see if they respond.

And how much did you pay for that laptop, compared to the X200s?

If you are looking to pay a lot and maybe receive over-and-above customer service, perhaps Apple or another truly premium brand is the right place to go these days.

Myself, I'll take machines that don't break the bank and take care to back-up stuff I will need.

cscottrader wrote:I even Googled and it doesn't come up in the search (using string "thinkpad forum"). If you know how Google works, this tells you that Lenovo's "official" forum is not nearly as popular as this one.

Actually, it's quite popular, but Bill's has been around since dirt - hence the solid #1 Google ranking.

As far as being the middle of the night on a weekend, I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Sorry, knee-jerk response. We (I moderate Lenovo's forum as well) get a lot of people over there who seem to deliberately wait to post nuclear blasts about a problem until anyone who might help is gone for the weekend, and then they spend the next 2 days complaining and whipping everyone into a frenzy.

To be honest, HarryC and others here on the forum were faster to the draw than anyone at Lenovo.

Lenovo's forum is not a staffed support channel, but there are a few employees who try to help out. Mark, the community manager, usually doesn't work on the weekend.

qviri wrote:

And how much did you pay for that laptop, compared to the X200s?

I have no idea since my organization paid for it. But given the stink they raised, I'm guessing quite a bit more than the Dell alternative they were pushing me toward. Again, now I've got egg on my face because my argument to them (to justify the higher price) was excellent quality (I believe I said something along the lines of "I've had ThinkPads for 15 years and no problems" One of the folks from purchasing walked by the other day and asked "Where's your new ThinkPad?" Answer: "In the shop. Again.")

qviri wrote: If you are looking to pay a lot and maybe receive over-and-above customer service, perhaps Apple or another truly premium brand is the right place to go these days.

Well, I must say that Apple is a consideration now. But I thought ThinkPads were in that league as well. I believe they are pretty close, price-wise at least. The fact that I could have walked into the Apple store with this problem is certainly appealing. That's another reason I'm so peeved ... Lenovo had a chance to do an in-person diagnosis (since they screwed up the first time around) and didn't want to do it.

qviri wrote:Myself, I'll take machines that don't break the bank and take care to back-up stuff I will need.

Definitely with you there qviri. I'm the same way when it comes to my personal stuff. Hence, the reason my last three IBM ThinkPads were used -- via eBay -- and still no problems.

i'd get a refund on that bad boy, and order another x200s pronto!!! 10 days passed, problem solved!

mulambo187 wrote:i'd get a refund on that bad boy, and order another x200s pronto!!! 10 days passed, problem solved!

I wish I could and I'm still checking on the possibility. As to whether I'd order another Lenovo ThinkPad or not, well ....

cscottrader wrote:As a former IBM employee, it's a huge disappointment. Guess I'll use my old X31 until it falls apart.

I had an X40 (the last that was made by IBM) that had a flawed chassis - when I place it on a table one of the rubber pads would not touch the table. I came here to whine about it and sent it off to IBM for a repair. I even included detail notes about the problem. Guess what? One week later it came back basically untouched. The problem was only solved when I took the machine to some shady PC mall in southern China (I got the X40 in the US) and had the chassis completely replaced. The point is, my *first* emotion toward the IBM Thinkpad was frustration and I still came to love the brand.

Now I am an owner of a second-hand X60s with Linux installed and this machine, even with a "Used Equipment" sticker on it, serves me well. And yes, I am reading the X200s section because I am thinking about getting an X200/s.

cscottrader wrote:Well, I must say that Apple is a consideration now. But I thought ThinkPads were in that league as well. I believe they are pretty close, price-wise at least. The fact that I could have walked into the Apple store with this problem is certainly appealing.

Trust me, being able to walk into an Apple store and speak with a so-called "Genius" is not all that it's cracked up to be. I work for a Chicago university in the IT department, and we have had many poor experiences with Apple's support. In my opinion, Dell's corporate-level support is many times better than Apple's. It seems to me that Apple does not take their education customers as seriously as they used to.