Thinkpads Forum

I'm beginning to think that the days of the X200 and X300 high quality chassis are coming to a close. How much longer will they hang on before they are replaced with machines 50% cheaper to make? A year? Sad, JL

X300 and X301 are the so called 'high quality chassis', and they do not get an update in 2010. That could be very telling as far as the prospects for their being included in future Thinkpad product lines, which does not look good. The X200/s (new model is X210/s) will be around for awhile.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Leaked-T ... 4644.shtml

Who is to say that the next X210 will not be built using money saving parts (plastic!) ? In fact it would seem likely, with prices coming down so low and the economy sitting still etc. J

Personally, I wouldn't describe the X200s chassis as "high quality". "Above average", sure, but not "high quality". I own an X40, X60s, X61s, and X200s -- and the last one feels a whole lot cheaper than the others. To be fair, the X60s/X61s clearly have some cost-cutting measures in them when compared to the X40. (Fortunately, those aren't anywhere near as noticeable as the ones in the X200s. They're tiny differences too, like the fit of the top chassis and the number of screws used to attach the keyboard.).

I've done complete tear-downs (removal of every single individually-removable FRU) of all my machines, and there's no doubt in my mind: the X40 is the most carefully-designed, carefully-built machine with the highest quality chassis, followed *very closely* by the two X6x machines, followed not-so-closely by the X200s.

A sign of the times I guess: people value cost over everything else. Sigh. At least my beloved X40 is easy to maintain and to repair. Parts are dirt cheap, I know the inside of the machine like the back of my hand, and I'm content to use it for years to come. When that fails, there's always my X61s (warrantied until the very end of 2012) -- and I'm equally confident that it will have as long of a post-warranty life as the X40.

Thanks for that Rob. Indeed I fully expect the 210 series to quietly go to more plastic material while looking close to the same. ITs sad but really notebooks are slowly becoming disposable devices that serve a purpose for a short time. Maybe one day with the advent of fablabs people will gain the ability to design there own. Now that would be something! j

ThinkRob wrote:Personally, I wouldn't describe the X200s chassis as "high quality". "Above average", sure, but not "high quality". I own an X40, X60s, X61s, and X200s -- and the last one feels a whole lot cheaper than the others. To be fair, the X60s/X61s clearly have some cost-cutting measures in them when compared to the X40. (Fortunately, those aren't anywhere near as noticeable as the ones in the X200s. They're tiny differences too, like the fit of the top chassis and the number of screws used to attach the keyboard.).

I've done complete tear-downs (removal of every single individually-removable FRU) of all my machines, and there's no doubt in my mind: the X40 is the most carefully-designed, carefully-built machine with the highest quality chassis, followed *very closely* by the two X6x machines, followed not-so-closely by the X200s.

A sign of the times I guess: people value cost over everything else. Sigh. At least my beloved X40 is easy to maintain and to repair. Parts are dirt cheap, I know the inside of the machine like the back of my hand, and I'm content to use it for years to come. When that fails, there's always my X61s (warrantied until the very end of 2012) -- and I'm equally confident that it will have as long of a post-warranty life as the X40.

With your knowledge of the ThinkPads you have mentioned, where or how would you rank the 600X in regards to quality?

Medicopter wrote: With your knowledge of the ThinkPads you have mentioned, where or how would you rank the 600X in regards to quality?

Never having owned one, I'm afraid I can't really offer any comparison.

I am, of course, perfectly happy to perform an objective assessment: if you send me one I will happily test the hell out of it and provide a thorough description of its quality (inside and out) compared to my other ThinkPads...

You know, I thought it was just me! The X200T is my favorite by far because it allows me to do what I want to do which the other models I once owned (X31, X32, X41, X61, X61T) could not do. However, I always thought the X200T FELT CHEAP! More parts have chipped off of this unit and I haven't handled this ANYWHERE as rough as I did with my X31 which went through hell and back but looks JUST AS GOOD THE DAY I GOT IT.

Frustrating!

epu wrote:You know, I thought it was just me! The X200T is my favorite by far because it allows me to do what I want to do which the other models I once owned (X31, X32, X41, X61, X61T) could not do. However, I always thought the X200T FELT CHEAP! More parts have chipped off of this unit and I haven't handled this ANYWHERE as rough as I did with my X31 which went through hell and back but looks JUST AS GOOD THE DAY I GOT IT.

Frustrating!

I'm not sure that this is just due to cost savings, although that's certainly part of it. I suspect it's also due to the recent weight fetish that's hit the consumer market. The X200s (I don't have any other "current generation" ThinkPads) is absurdly light, and while Lenovo likes to crow about the advanced materials they use, the real weight savings are due to the use of thinner plastics. The palmrest plastic of the X200s is quite thin and flexible compared to that on the X6x series (which is in turn, slightly less rigid than that on the X40).

The X200s has some advanced materials, sure -- but not many; at the prices they're selling for it's just not economically feasible for them to use carbon-fiber composites and other exotic, high-rigidty materials for the majority of the chassis*. As a result, the only way to drop the weight down to an "eye catching" figure (< 3lbs) is to use thinner and lighter plastics. This works, but it has the side effect of making the machine feel a little cheap, especially when the weight-saving measures impact case rigidity.

* I know this because I've been sourcing carbon fiber for use in a little experiment I'm doing. I'm working on re-inforcing the screen assembly in my X40 using thin-laminate carbon fiber sheeting. Molded parts are pretty expensive, as are large-ish sheets -- once you start getting up to > 12" diagonal the price starts picking up quite a bit. Now it's true that Lenovo can probably get a better price than I can, but they're not gonna spend a huge amount on the lid and palmrest assemblies alone. Maybe IBM would have, but Lenovo won't.

epu wrote:my X31 which went through hell and back but looks JUST AS GOOD THE DAY I GOT IT.

Hyperbole alert...

Are the rubber feet still on the X31? Is the top cover absolutely free of scratches and stains? Did your keyboard bezel not break next to the left Shift? No wear on the keyboard? No shiny palm rest? Is your docking port cover as it was delivered? Does the battery fit perfectly snug? Has the rubber not worn off top cover corners? (Okay, I wouldn't judge that last one, that's inevitable.)

Don't get me wrong, I think the X31 is very well built and I am astonished my five-year-old laptop looks as good as this. But after active use, perfect-as-delivered it ain't.

I dropped it, and used it constantly. ASIDE from some shiny keys (which will happen on any IBM/Lenovo make), the machine looks outstanding. Rubber feet are in pristine condition, no dead pixels, no scratches on the lid, even the Windows COA sticker on the bottom is totally legible. The X32 was my workhorse throughout graduate school. I have the 2GHz model too. I now use it as an internet only machine (originally used it for school and to do Digital Audio) since I use my X200 Tablet for major projects (with an EXPRESS CARD SSD From MTRON [16GB], the unit FLIES).

I admittantly only purchased the X200T because all of the models before it had less screen resolution and also because EXPRESS CARD SSDs hit the market which would allow me to use an ultraportable with TWO DRIVES WITHOUT carrying around the SHOPPING CART sized Ultrabase.

Now the the T400s has hit the market I'm considering trading in my tablet for that!

Cant see any reason to cry over what has not happened yet!

Who know what Lenovo is going to do. One thing is that they will try to keep it's market share and Dell and the others are not increasing their quality either and are in the same boat.

Apple is getting ready to introduce the "Tablet"

I think it will change everything.

Sit back and relax!

Being a proud owner of an x41, and now having recently purchased an X200s, I can say that without a doubt the X200s feels "cheaper". I love the speed, and feel of the machine on most levels, but honestly I can feel a difference in how the keyboard responds, and how the machine overall feels when tossing around. I fall into the power user, road warrior category, and needed/wanted something that was as sturdy as my x41, I guess this is as close as anything comes.
I just feel like certain levels of quality and sturdy design left when the IBM badge did.

I could imagine an apple made tablet being sort of like a giant iphone being a really fun toy.

I think that lenovo needs to keep making high end laptops in addition to cost saving ones. I hate looking at some macs and admitting "there is nothing that feels quite this nice by ibm right now"

Hopefully they don't fall behind. Hopefully apple never makes a good keyboard and lenovo doesn't make theirs worse. That will always justify the thinkpad

brandontonio wrote:Being a proud owner of an x41, and now having recently purchased an X200s, I can say that without a doubt the X200s feels "cheaper". I love the speed, and feel of the machine on most levels, but honestly I can feel a difference in how the keyboard responds, and how the machine overall feels when tossing around. I fall into the power user, road warrior category, and needed/wanted something that was as sturdy as my x41, I guess this is as close as anything comes.
I just feel like certain levels of quality and sturdy design left when the IBM badge did.

In a similar boat, I moved from an X41-T to an X301 1.4, 4gb, 5400rpm drive. The slow 4200rpm drive was reallly slow compared to this 5400rpm drive. I have never had hands on experience with a SSD but the speed difference must be quite fast.

The 301 is nearly as sturdy as the tablet, with a bit more flex especially in the screen area. The screen on the tablet is hard to beat, especially the viewing angles. The X301 feels very solid though, and they keyboard is a nice size increase and feels just as good. I also am a fan of the multitouch touchpad and they FINALLY got it right with the speakers! I could not stand the fact that the speaker is on the bottom of the rest of the x series laptops and these speakers may not be the best, but kick the crap out of the X41-tablets speakers.

This is a sad truth that applies not just to ThinkPad but to almost all manufactured devices nowadays. In the good old times (lets say in the middle of the last century) when you bought a good camera it meant that there were no need to upgrade in years. In fact it may serve to you for almost all your life. Now technologies move so fast that your camera is dated in less than 5 years. In that situation the need for high quality durable but expensive materials is radically diminished. Who uses a laptop for more than a year or two these days? (The members of this venerable forum do not count here, of course). Thats it.

I have to agree.. I was able to beat the crap out of my T4X and my T6x series.
Well yesterday, not sure how, but my X200s got a large scrape/gouge on the back of the lid.. Not impressed...
Time to find a skin for it.