Display:FFS CCFL Vs IPS LED. opinions?

[irus]

going by the tabook specs these two seem to be the attractive offers. Not sure how they compare in real life. Opinions from owners/user would be much appreciated.

[Harryc]

I don't know of an IPS/LED LCD offering from Lenovo. Where exactly did you see that? Link please?

[ZaZ]

Perhaps one of the tablets?

[irus]

I don't know on an IPS/LED LCD offering from Lenovo. Where exactly did you see that? Link please?

http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/tabook.pdf page 143 x200t (7450)

[Harryc]

Ok, so you are looking for a comparison of X200t (Tablet) LCD screens?

[irus]

Ok, so you are looking for a comparison of X200t (Tablet) LCD screens?

yes coming from a 14.1 sxga+ T42.

[irus]

displays r a topic where people have vented considerably on this forum, would have thought there will be more replies on this topic..

one more question i read about the AFSS mod. is this FFS/CCFL screen mentioned in the tabook same as the AFSS mod screen technically?

[Harryc]

Personally I have never seen both X200T screens up close, so I can't reasonably comment. Someone will take the time to comment I'm sure. Have a bit of patience please.

[chairsky]

I used both the two kinds of screen of x200 tablet (enhanced multitouch uses IPS LED manufacured by TOSHIBA)
Both of them are good, but hard to tell which shows the real colors
I tested pure Red, Green, and Blue to compare, and personally I think IPS is better
but for white, IPS shows a little bit yellow compared to AFFS CCFL

[irus]

thats very interesting ^ i would have expected the CCFL to be on the yellower side of things, especially with time. you've shaken the very foundation of expected results from a comparison between CCFL and LED.

[tjp888]

thats very interesting ^ i would have expected the CCFL to be on the yellower side of things, especially with time. you've shaken the very foundation of expected results from a comparison between CCFL and LED.

I just received my X200 with the LED backlight. I was unaware it was an IPS screen. This is good news! IPS is 8 bit color (verses TN with 6 bit).
As with all my LCD displays I attach my Huey Pro and run the calibration routine. On my X200 the color was originally on the cool side. After the calibration, the Huey Pro noticeably warmed it up a bit.

[chairsky]

thats very interesting ^ i would have expected the CCFL to be on the yellower side of things, especially with time. you've shaken the very foundation of expected results from a comparison between CCFL and LED.

I guess the reason is from the touch panel
CCFL AFFS is only available in digitizer-only model. However, IPS is only available in Enhanced Multitouch model
I also tried Single-Touch model of x200 tablet w/ PVA panel, which also have the same problem in white background, so I think touch panel have made it yellower

[AvalonXIII]

I used both the two kinds of screen of x200 tablet (enhanced multitouch uses IPS LED manufacured by TOSHIBA)
Both of them are good, but hard to tell which shows the real colors
I tested pure Red, Green, and Blue to compare, and personally I think IPS is better
but for white, IPS shows a little bit yellow compared to AFFS CCFL

That's because LED screen in X200t is not IPS, it's PVA, and the yellowish tint is characteristic of PVA screen. Do not trust Lenovo's documents for the X200t. Countless people have disassembled the X200t and confirm that the screen is PVA.

[irus]

very valuable-able information guys regarding PVA screen being yellowish

in summary

1) x200 multitouch - IPS LED
2) x200 single touch - PVA CCFL/LED? (either an old CCFL or viewing PVA from an angle; either explain the yellowness)
3) x200 digitizer model - AFFS CCFL

coming back to topic how is the screen on the x200 multi-touch model compared with the screen on digitzer model?

[irus]

well i've read a little on IPS vs AFFS and separately on LED vs CCFL.

it seems from this http://www.boehydis.com/eng/04_rnd/rnd_13.asp that IPS sits at 0.02 for color shift and AFFS at 0.015 not much of a difference. other minor differences can be seen here http://www.boehydis.com/eng/04_rnd/rnd_06.asp

AFFS is marginally better than IPS.

Looking at LED vs CCFL
well following are some points which i found worth noting
led - better contrast, whiter, less backlight bleed, flicker free
ccfl - flicker (rarely gives a headache), yellowness over time

overall led would be easier on eyes

AFFS however compensates for the backlight bleed and whiteness of the CCFL which makes it tougher to compare except perhaps in outdoor use where AFFS would theoretically completely outshine an IPS

however all in all in day to day indoor use i suppose IPS LED would be the best display tech to pick. What do others think?

[chairsky]

That's because LED screen in X200t is not IPS, it's PVA, and the yellowish tint is characteristic of PVA screen. Do not trust Lenovo's documents for the X200t. Countless people have disassembled the X200t and confirm that the screen is PVA.

Nope, I have tried all the models and confirmed the panels (be aware, only the newer version, LED backlit Enhanced Multitouch uses IPS panel, all the other LED backlit model use PVA, as you mentioned):

LED backlit model with digitizer-only and Single Multitouch are equipped with PVA panel, which is produced by SAMSUNG, by EVEREST, you can find the panel is named LTN121AT03
LED backlit model with Enhanced Multitouch panel is equipped with IPS panel, which is produced by TOSHIBA, by EVEREST, you can find the panel is named LTD121KX6B
AFFS is only available in a part of CCFF backlit model, which is produced by Hydis, by EVEREST, you can find the panel is named HV121WX4

and for the yellowish issue when make the background white, in my experience, it only occurs in Multitouch model (both single and enhanced), not in LED digitizer only model, that's why I get the conclusion that the touch panel make white looks yellow

and for the difference of panels, I used pure RED, GREEN, and BLUE to compare:
IPS shows the most accurate color, AFFS is not bad, but the RED part is not as good as IPS, PVA is the worst, not accurate at all, even worse than TN panel in x200

last, for the viewing angles among the three panels, IPS and AFFS has almost the same wide angle (I cannot tell the difference), PVA is the worst (the most problem is that color fades for PVA in a wide angle)

[jw]

Nope, I have tried all the models and confirmed the panels (be aware, only the newer version, LED backlit Enhanced Multitouch uses IPS panel, all the other LED backlit model use PVA, as you mentioned):

Do you know what type of panel the "SuperBright Outdoor Viewable WXGA LED Panel with Wide viewing Angle" represents?

[erik]

LED backlit model with digitizer-only and Single Multitouch are equipped with PVA panel, which is produced by SAMSUNG, by EVEREST, you can find the panel is named LTN121AT03
LED backlit model with Enhanced Multitouch panel is equipped with IPS panel, which is produced by TOSHIBA, by EVEREST, you can find the panel is named LTD121KX6B

my X200T EMT uses a samsung panel -- an LTN121AP03101 to be exact.   granted, it's an early model so i don't know whether or not all current-production EMT systems are being shipped with toshiba, samsung, or both.   for now i wouldn't say your statement above is a hard and fast rule.

[chairsky]

Do you know what type of panel the "SuperBright Outdoor Viewable WXGA LED Panel with Wide viewing Angle" represents?

Sorry, this is the only one I have no chance to use, so I am not sure about the panel, I believe someone who bought this type will help you on this issue
What I know is that the screen is glossy and not support finger touch, hope it helps

[chairsky]

my X200T EMT uses a samsung panel -- an LTN121AP03101 to be exact.   granted, it's an early model so i don't know whether or not all current-production EMT systems are being shipped with toshiba, samsung, or both.   for now i wouldn't say your statement above is a hard and fast rule.

I understand your concern,
Actually, for CCFL backlit model, lenovo has both AFFS and PVA panels to supply, so in my last post, I pointed out that AFFS is available in a part of CCFL backlit models
Whereas, for LED backlit (digitizer-only & single multitouch), there is only one supplier, SAMSUNG, which only have PVA panel (BTW, BOEHYDIS has LED AFFS panel in production, but it is not the supplier for x200t LED model, I have modded one LED PVA x200t with LED AFFS)
Nowadays, for Enhanced-Multitouch, as far as I know, ALL of them are LED IPS panels by TOSHIBA, which is a NEW supplier of x200 tablet panel, never supply for any other models before, however, I am not sure if lenovo will change supplier or so in the future, it depends on lenovo's policy

[erik]

Nowadays, for Enhanced-Multitouch, as far as I know, ALL of them are LED IPS panels by TOSHIBA, which is a NEW supplier of x200 tablet panel, never supply for any other models before, however, I am not sure if lenovo will change supplier or so in the future, it depends on lenovo's policy

while that might be true, that doesn't change the fact that my enhanced multitouch X200T has an LED S-PVA panel from samsung.

my point is that not every EMT X200T has a toshiba panel.   that's all.

[chairsky]

while that might be true, that doesn't change the fact that my enhanced multitouch X200T has an LED S-PVA panel from samsung.

my point is that not every EMT X200T has a toshiba panel.   that's all.

got you, just realized "EMT" stands for Enhanced Multitouch
I bought 8 EMTs from October to December for myself and friends, all of them are IPS, so it seems samsung is also supplying panels for EMT model, thanks a lot for sharing it with us

[AvalonXIII]

That is indeed the superbright outdoor viewable panel.

Sorry, this is the only one I have no chance to use, so I am not sure about the panel, I believe someone who bought this type will help you on this issue
What I know is that the screen is glossy and not support finger touch, hope it helps

[pwnsweet]

I bought 8 EMTs from October to December for myself and friends, all of them are IPS, so it seems samsung is also supplying panels for EMT model, thanks a lot for sharing it with us

Don't suppose you have a spare one I can buy

[jezsun]

I have a X200t with the single multitouch + digitizer (LTN121AP03) screen . I accidentally cracked the screen.. Ouch. Does anyone if I can swap the screen with the newer "EMT" (LTD121KX6B)?

[jalko]

I have x200t, 7449-FXG(late 2008 with LED multiview and multitouch. No enhanced multitouch) with Samsung panel. Has been once replaced, but from I can tell, it's the same panel as original. A few days ago, I asked for replacement once again. Today technician came to me with new Toshiba panel. I don't know if it's that enhanced multitouch one, but looks definitely worse than Samsung. I think I will keep my old Samsung with dead pixels instead of "new" Toshiba.

[VipFreak]

I have a 7450edu with the multitouch/multiview (single touch). What do you mean flicker? sometimes mind will scramble for a sec and comeback to normal. I don't know if this is a screen thing or a software thing. Seems random though.