Thinkpads Forum

I am getting ready to pull the trigger on this drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820157021

Intel X18-M G1

What are your opinions on this drive? I would love to get the new gen samsung 128gb ssd lenovo is using but its out of my price range. The Dane-elec kit is 190 - 10% coupon = about $170, and it seems it is a good deal.

Does the G1 support TRIM on W7? Intel pulled the firmware update that was supposed to support it, but I have no idea if they have released new firmware or not.


I would really appreciate any opinions you guys have. Current setup is in sig (X301, 5400rpm drive).
$1100 + $50 (1x2gb ddr3) + $170 (ssd) = 1300 for basically a top-of-the-line X301. Not too shabby i think

Investinwaffles wrote:I am getting ready to pull the trigger on this drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820157021

Intel X18-M G1

What are your opinions on this drive? I would love to get the new gen samsung 128gb ssd lenovo is using but its out of my price range. The Dane-elec kit is 190 - 10% coupon = about $170, and it seems it is a good deal.

Does the G1 support TRIM on W7? Intel pulled the firmware update that was supposed to support it, but I have no idea if they have released new firmware or not.


I would really appreciate any opinions you guys have. Current setup is in sig (X301, 5400rpm drive).
$1100 + $50 (1x2gb ddr3) + $170 (ssd) = 1300 for basically a top-of-the-line X301. Not too shabby i think

Get a X18-M G2 if possible. G1 does NOT support TRIM, and Intel has already said that they wouldn't release firmware update to make the G1 support TRIM (I have a G1 X25M 80GB, I am feeling the pain caused by Intel's decision).

TRIM or not, the X18M/X25M is still a very good drive. While without TRIM, the performance of the drive will deteriorate, I remember an Anadtech article showing that the X25-M in the worst case scenario still runs faster than many of its competitors.

I would get the G2 one.

How's this?
http://www.buy.com/prod/intel-x18-m-mlc ... 04525.html

W/ 4% Bing cash back it comes out to be around $220. A bit more than I would like to spend, but im willing to because it has TRIM and is 34nm (hopefully a hair bit faster).


Now, I was counting on using that external enclosure included in the dane-elec kit (1.8 -> 2.5") to throw my stock 120gb hdd in. Anyone done the same with theirs?

Also, I made the restore disks for the laptop (MS Signature PC), can I use those with the SSD too? What kind of tweaks does lenovo put in their enhanced experience windows 7 for ssd's??
Or should I torrent a W7 iso disk and do a ground up install?

Don't sweat the lack of TRIM. The use-induced performance drop on the G1 drives is only around 3%. Access latencies increase slightly, but they're still < 3ms.

The importance of TRIM for Intel drives is *WAY* overblown IMHO.

I'd save your money and get the G1. HDD -> SSD is a worthwhile upgrade, SSD -> slightly faster SSD is probably not worth the cash (unless performance is life-and-death for you or your business... but if that was the case, why are you using an X series?)

ThinkRob wrote:Don't sweat the lack of TRIM. The use-induced performance drop on the G1 drives is only around 3%. Access latencies increase slightly, but they're still < 3ms.

The importance of TRIM for Intel drives is *WAY* overblown IMHO.

I'd save your money and get the G1. HDD -> SSD is a worthwhile upgrade, SSD -> slightly faster SSD is probably not worth the cash (unless performance is life-and-death for you or your business... but if that was the case, why are you using an X series?)

Well, if I'm already dropping $180 on an SSD, I might as well spend $40 more to get the latest version.

But I do see what your saying. If the price gap was more I definitely would have just gone with the G1 drive and just manually maintained the drive.

Anyway, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the drive from Buy.com because i wanted it before the weekend so I could tinker.

Some dismal benchmark results from the stock 5400rpm drive

Investinwaffles wrote: Well, if I'm already dropping $180 on an SSD, I might as well spend $40 more to get the latest version.

But I do see what your saying. If the price gap was more I definitely would have just gone with the G1 drive and just manually maintained the drive.

Anyway, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the drive from Buy.com because i wanted it before the weekend so I could tinker.

Hm. Well... to each their own.

They way I look at it, getting the G2 over the G1 means paying a 22% increase in price to avoid a 3% drop. For me that's not worth it, but YMMV.

At any rate, congrats and welcome to the wonderful world of SSDs.

Wait 6-8 months.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3731
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3702

ricerocket wrote:Wait 6-8 months.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3731
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3702

Well... yeah... if you wait, things will get cheaper. That's obvious. But if you need to upgrade, being told "oh, X will be cheaper in a bit" doesn't really help; there's *always* something better down the road. Heck, if you wait 36 months, you'll be able to pick up a WAY faster SSD for < $100!

Oh, and the Vertex, although cheaper, is not faster than the X25 in random reads/writes -- not even close. Sure, its theoretical peak sequential speeds are faster... but that's about it. Its power draw is higher too.

6-8 months is too long for me to wait

Anyway, I will probably pick up another SSD for my desktop at the end of the year when they get cheaper/faster/bigger but like thinkrob said there will always be something new coming out in a few months.


So how should I get windows 7 on the new HDD? I want to do a fresh install, but all I have is the restore disks I made when I got the laptop. I can easily torrent a 64-bit copy of W7 though so I will probably do that. What would you guys suggest?

Ok actually after a quick 5 min Google search all the 64bit iso's appear to be cracked versions (which I dont really want to use)

All i have is a Windows 7 Ultimate iso and my lenovo restore disks. Do you think the restore disks would be the same as installing a fresh Microsoft copy of W7?
To clarify, I am just wondering if the lenovo restore disks I got with my 301 (5400rpm drive) will not be good for the SSD.

Investinwaffles wrote: To clarify, I am just wondering if the lenovo restore disks I got with my 301 (5400rpm drive) will not be good for the SSD.

Whether or not you install from the restore disks won't matter.

I don't think the restore is based on what harddrive you have installed. You can probably restore easy to a SSD.

I upgraded a T410 with a brand new Intel X25-M 160GB SSD this weekend and i think you will get the same good feeling when upgrading yours!

For benchmarks and a general thought when upgrading from 7200 RPM to SSD : http://system-log.com/?p=305

Happy upgrading!

Thanks that was very helpful

Looks like im good to go then. Fedex says that it is out for delivery now

Woo hoo, just got it but I still have one more class

Oh well, should be a nice and satisfying night. Got a bottle of jack, trailer park boys (all seasons) and a new hdd

I guess when the bottle of Jack wears off, we can expect some benchmarks from your new SSD (at least boot-times before vs. today ?

personally im waiting for an Intel SSD with at least 100GB and be affordable, my 250GB 5400rpm is doing an ok job so far...

system-log wrote:I guess when the bottle of Jack wears off, we can expect some benchmarks from your new SSD (at least boot-times before vs. today ?

Just awoke, so glad to have the entire weekend off and to myself. Anyway some quick and dirty numbers:

Boot times:
5400rpm drive - 68sec to complete boot
X18-M G2 - 35 SEC!!!

The longest part of that is waiting for the fingerprint reader though. It takes quite a while to go from (please wait, to swipe finger). Anywhere from 5-20secs which really kills the boot speed.


Here is the updated bench :
X18-M G2


Stock Toshiba 5400rpm HDD



So what are all the worthwile things to do? I hear so so so much conflicting info on disabling super/prefetches and what not. I have already disabled:
Hibernate
Sys. Restore
Set firefox to write to the memory (I have 4gbs of memory and i dont know if I have ever used more than 2.5gb yet, lol),


and thats pretty much it. Does W7 do a good job of setting itself up for an SSD or should I tweak more?

Forgot to mention, I used the restore disks that I created from the notebook before the SSD Upgrade and the install is working flawlessly.

One thing I noticed is that it refuses to remember my power scheme though, it always goes back to energy star when I reboot. SO i just changed the energy star power settings to the custom one I created and I guess it solved the problem.

Investinwaffles wrote:So what are all the worthwile things to do? I hear so so so much conflicting info on disabling super/prefetches and what not. I have already disabled:
Hibernate, Sys. Restore, and set firefox to write to the memory more (I have 4gbs of memory and i dont know if I have ever used more than 2.5gb yet, lol), and thats pretty much it. Does W7 do a good job of setting itself up for an SSD or should I tweak more?

I leave hibernate, prefetch and superfetch enabled. A solid state drive works just dandy that way, and coming out of hibernate is scary fast. Only disable defragmentation. That is the only feature not helpful on a SSD.

Solid state drives are addictive; they are rocket fast! "resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" (chuckle)

Congratulations with a great new disk mate! The charts was very impressive, and i think you will get a new positive experience working with your laptop!

I think i have read somewhere that indexing should be turned off to bring the overall speed of the system up a notch. The disk in it self is so fast that indexing is not that important. Correct me if i'm wrong.


[image linked to www.performing-musician.com]

That was the first thing I disabled, as I could always hear my computer indexing during quiet classes or recitations.

OK, so the disk is wicked fast but it doesnt always feel that way. When opening office and stuff it is very speedy, but there is always a ton of lag after clicking on a program, to the time it actually starts loading off the hdd. For instance, firefox takes about 10secs to load, 5 of which are spent just waiting for the computer to start loading (I can see from the CPU usage and disk light).
I dont really think there is anything I can do though.

And does anyone else experience the SLOW performance of the fingerprint reader or is it just me? It was 5x slower before the SSD though. I am almost feeling like removing a start up password completely so it will boot straight through to the desktop.

Investinwaffles wrote: firefox takes about 10secs to load, 5 of which are spent just waiting for the computer to start loading (I can see from the CPU usage and disk light).
I dont really think there is anything I can do though.

No there isn't. I've experienced the same lag with Firefox, and while I don't have a good explanation for it, my gut feeling is it's the code within. The new Opera is blazing fast which is what leads me to draw that conclusion.

Investinwaffles wrote:And does anyone else experience the SLOW performance of the fingerprint reader or is it just me? It was 5x slower before the SSD though. I am almost feeling like removing a start up password completely so it will boot straight through to the desktop.

I have purposely ordered my last three new ThinkPads without fingerprint readers whenever it's possible, for that very reason. I've been doing a lot of testing and playing around with a wide variety of SSD's lately and the fun is dampened by the lag time the reader causes.
.
Cheers...

For comparison, this is how the OCZ Solid 2 120GB (Indilinx Barefoot controller, with Intel 34nm NAND) perform on my X200


and this is how the Intel X25-M 160GB G2 perform on my desktop (with P35 chipset)

Wow, very impressive numbers from the OCZ drive

So I must ask, what programs are you guys using? Any lag I experiance is now too much in compro to the rest of the system
I think I may be spoiled.


I am using foxit pro for my PDF's and it seems pretty zippy, Onenote is also blazingly fast now, but my browser and boot seem to be lacking. I tweaked the boot to get it as fast as possible while still retaining the fingerprint logon because I am cheesy in that way (i like gizmos).

Also, what should I do for upkeep on the drive? I have it set to never turn off the SSD when im plugged in, and i plan to leave it on overnight once a week or so so trim and garbage collection can do its thing but is that pretty much it?

Oh wow, I just downloaded opera 10.50 beta and i have to say I am very impressed. Seems much zippier and cleaner than FF. Only wish I could use the thinkpad password manager with it but no big deal I guess (less resources used).

Regarding the Vertex/Solid 2 vs. the X25-M: the X25-M wins, hands-down.

The Vertex /Solid 2 have better sequential speeds, but when it comes to heavy random I/O, Intel's controller handles it far better.

Also, CrystalDiskMark doesn't do a very good job of testing small random writes. It doesn't test request queues deeper than 1, and it doesn't show how drives cope with <4K writes -- an important characteristic if you're using the drive for typical desktop usage.

That said, it is nice to see some decent competition in the MLC arena, esp. given how incredibly poorly most of the drives fared for the first couple years!

Investinwaffles wrote: Also, what should I do for upkeep on the drive? I have it set to never turn off the SSD when im plugged in, and i plan to leave it on overnight once a week or so so trim and garbage collection can do its thing but is that pretty much it?

Nothing. A good SSD shouldn't require any special maintenance. I'd recommend you make sure you don't have any sort of automatic defragger enabled, since the only effect that defragging has on an SSD is a negative one. Past that... well... enjoy it!

Uoho,

I am having the same problem with standy/shutdown/hibernate as before (It will hang after dimming the screen to black and not power down).
Im pretty convinced that its the lenovo restore image. I think im going to try to get an OEM W7 disk and start from the ground up.