Thinkpads Forum

Hi guys, I know this is about another laptop, but I see that you have a very extensive conversation on the topic of changing screen to a one with higher res. than what's available on the market, so I wish to check with you:

Do you know if an X200 tablet can be modded with an SXGA+ (a la X61T) or WXGA+ (a la X200 non-tablet) screen? What operations are needed more than unscrewing the screen and replacing the screen module?

If it's doable, where/what screen should I get to get one that's equally good in colors etc. as "original lenovo" ones?

Many thanks

welcome to the forum!

an SXGA+ panel will not physically fit in the X200T.   the dimensions are completely different between the 12.1" 4:3 panel and 12.1" 16:10 panel.

while installing a WXGA+ panel in an X200T is physically possible, you would lose touchscreen capability and the benefits of AFFS+ (since the WXGA+ is TN technology with limited color, contrast, and viewing angles).   plus, you would have to heavily modify the display panel to work with the tablet.   i'm sure it's possible, just not very feasible.   the outcome would be worse than having 1280x800 in my opinion.

if you want high-res in an X200 platform, i would recommend purchasing an X200/X201/s notebook with the WXGA+ panel already installed.

Hi,

Thank you very much for your response!

Basically I just want a X61/X200 tablet/non-tablet kind of laptop with built-in DVI output and a real high resolution. But, the tablet's features fascinate me - in particular the ability to flip the screen around, in order to plug in an external keyboard, and to put it in "tablet" mode to read a book.
Is there any way I can get a tablet laptop with built-in DVI and real high resolution (=SXGA+/WXGA)?

Regarding putting WXGA+ in a x200 tablet, why would the touchscreen need to be taken away, aren't those two different layers inside the screen? (I fully trust you're right just want to clarify)

] (since the WXGA+ is TN technology with limited color, contrast, and viewing angles)
I don't care about the viewing angle. But what's the difference in color and contrast? The X61T's SXGA+ screen has excellent color reproduction IMO, are the WXGA+ screens less good in this respect?

Would the ability to see the screen outdoors be good (the X61T is much worse than recent macbooks in this respect in all cases)?

] you would have to heavily modify the display panel to work with the tablet.
Like changing the chassi's shape, screw mount points or alike? where can i read up more on this?

] the outcome would be worse than having 1280x800 in my opinion.
Why?

This is a key question to me and I'd appreciate your response highly,

Best regards

the X60 and X61 Tablet are the only models ever offered with an SXGA+ panel from the factory.   most of these came with XGA panels, making the SXGA+ models harder to find.

no ThinkPad Tablet comes with on-board DVI.   the X200 Ultrabase has DisplayPort but not DVI.   a conversion cable would be needed but limits you to 1920x1200.

WXGA+ in a tablet is possible but you would have to transfer the touch surface in a dust-free environment.   you would also sacrifice wide viewing angles with this panel since it's TN and not IPS or AFFS.   a custom jumper harness would have to be fabricated along with soldering directly to the LCD mainboard.   plus, the WXGA+ panel doesn't match the screw pattern in the tablet's LCD housing, leaving you having to tape or glue the panel in place.   these points alone leave me saying it's possible but not a good idea whatsoever.   if you need a high-resolution display then an X200 Tablet isn't the place to get it.   an X60/X61 Tablet is your only option in the ThinkPad lineup.

if outdoor viewability is important then you would need to look into the outdoor-specific models with high brightness.

besides comparing various hardware maintenance manuals, there isn't a place to read up on this stuff.   i only know the above because i've owned, used, and serviced enough ThinkPad notebooks and tablets (including the X40T, X60T, X61T, and X200T) to answer the above from experience.

-erik

Continued on putting an WXGA+ panel in a X200 tablet:

] WXGA+ in a tablet is possible but you would have to transfer the touch surface in a dust-free environment.
i suppose a really clean room with tiles only should be good for this.

] you would also sacrifice wide viewing angles with this panel since it's TN and not IPS or AFFS.
that's NP with me. do you have any idea of how the difference in colors/contrasts would be?

] a custom jumper harness would have to be fabricated along with soldering directly to the LCD mainboard.
What is this need, more specifically?

What jumper harness is it, the one that connects the LCD mainboard to the motherboard of the laptop? How many wires are involved? Could standard components be bought to fabricate it, if so what are their names? Any particular tool needed, is soldering needed to fabricate it?

What needs to be soldered? Is it a socket, or individual pins of a socket, or something else? What precision is required, is the one of a completely unrefined hobbyist with +-4mm precision good enough?

] plus, the WXGA+ panel doesn't match the screw pattern in the tablet's LCD housing, leaving you having to tape or glue the panel in place.
Do you know if this tape/glue would be the only force that would hold it in place?

Perhaps one could somehow fit the panel to the screw pattern in the housing, by making some minor modification to it? Do you know of any online reference to the different panel modules?

] these points alone leave me saying it's possible but not a good idea whatsoever. if you need a high-resolution display then an X200 Tablet isn't the place to get it. an X60/X61 Tablet is your only option in the ThinkPad lineup.
I suppose no other laptop producers produce any laptop like this also.

Could there be any problems with needing to upgrade or patch the BIOS, or issues with that the touch surface doesn't map to the screen surface now that the resolution is different?

I suppose other than the jumper harness fabrication and soldering, making this patch is as shown on http://www.vimeo.com/3933798 .

Thank you a lot!

i split this into a new thread since your questions revolved around the X200 Tablet and not the X60//X61 series.

i appreciate your enthusiasm but please understand that you're asking questions about something that has never been done before.   i can provide answers within reason but cannot provide step-by-step instructions on how to do this.   it would take me at least a month of research, testing, and fabrication just to pull this off myself -- and i have a good idea of what needs to happen.   expecting detailed instructions on something i or anyone else have never done before is impossible.

soldering with 0.5mm precision (+/- 0.1mm) would be required.   this stuff is small.   no one makes the parts needed to do any of the above.   the jumper harness would have to be fabricated by hand, either using a custom socket with crimp terminals (which are 0.4mm in width and the crimp tool is extremely expensive) or by soldering directly to the LVDS cable with 0.35mm precision.

on top of that, the touchscreen wouldn't map correctly to the new display.   this is controlled by the digitizer itself, not the system BIOS.   wacom programs their digitizer chips to read a certain resolution.   it's safe to say this cannot be reprogrammed without specialized equipment.   and, no one makes a 12.1" WXGA+ tablet at this point in time so no compatible digitizer exists.

regarding display specs and how they fit into each system, these links will provide you with everything you need to get started in your research:
http://www.lenovo.com/psref/
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 39298.html
http://www.lenovoservicetraining.com/ion/
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/TFT_display

with that said, the ThinkPad T400s and T410s come with 14.1" WXGA+ touchscreens.   perhaps something like this would fulfill your needs better.

Erik,

You have convinced me there's other better ways to get to what I look for.

Thank you a lot for taking your time explaining this!

Hi Erik,

I've been thinking about this and got back to be interested in doing this.

If I get you right, what's needed to do this is:

(a) a custom connector cable for connecting the SXGA+ screen to the X200T laptop's mainboard
(b) a SXGA+ screen module, preferably the same as used originally in X61T:s
(c) somehow fixing the screen module in the chassi

Of this, (a) would be the difficult thing to perform. Do you have any idea of someone who could fabricate one like this at a charge? If not a person, then, is there any kind of company that could do this, if so what?
Is it obvious how the mapping of pins from the one socket to the pins on the socket on the other end should be made (1:1)? Are you aware of any standard names of the sockets and cable needed?

I've been looking around for (b), there are some X61T SXGA+ replacement modules on ebay, but they're noname. Do you have any idea of where to get the real thing?

(c) I think I could do myself. Screws, adhesive tape and rubber glue could do it.

Lastly, do you think there could be issues with the width of the new screen module, when inserting it (if they're not exactly equally thick, there could be a problem)?

Many thanks!

as i said before...

erik wrote:an SXGA+ panel will not physically fit in the X200T.   the dimensions are completely different between the 12.1" 4:3 panel and 12.1" 16:10 panel.

the X60T/X61T panel is approximately 26cm x 20cm where the X200T panel is approximately 28cm x 18cm.   sorry but there is no way to make this work.

if you want SXGA+ in a tablet then you need to purchase an X60T or X61T.

But... hold on, now... the X200s can be ordered with a WSXGA+ (1440x900) panel of the correct 12.1" 16:10 dimensions... why not order THIS and then swap over the digitizer? No soldering, no nonsense, the panel itself should be compatible. You just have to be careful with the digitizer. You would still have the viewing angle issues but this would be much easier.

Instead of swapping the digitizer, even, order a new one on eBay or whatever and install it on the WSXGA+ panel, and then your original panel you can keep totally untouched and maybe sell it, or if you screw up, keep it for a backup.

There's no direct swap. See here:

erik wrote:WXGA+ in a tablet is possible but you would have to transfer the touch surface in a dust-free environment.   you would also sacrifice wide viewing angles and higher contrast with this panel since it's TN, not IPS or AFFS.   a custom jumper harness would have to be fabricated along with soldering directly to the LCD mainboard.   plus, the WXGA+ panel doesn't match the screw pattern in the tablet's LCD housing, leaving you having to tape or glue the panel in place.   these points alone leave me saying it's possible but not a good idea whatsoever.

Hi,

(I didn't get what FredGarvin meant by "there's no direct swap", perhaps by that he answered this question:)

Bibin's idea would provide some improvement for getting a higher resolution on the X201 Tablet. But would it work? I.e.:

Would an WXGA+ screen fit in the X201T, and would it fit together with a multitouch? Does the panel's cable connector fit the display plug on the motherboard, etc.?

(Example of WXGA+ module: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-IBM-thinkpad-X2 ... 19bdfe4da8)



Anyone has an idea of a feedback email address to Lenovo for proposing them to sell higher-res small laptops? No other manufacturer makes these so there should be a market.

Funny that the production of small high-res panels seems to be so small, there's no other tablet with more than 1400x900 there. I found in total one regular laptop with higher res than that, in the same size range.


Many thanks and best regards,
Mikael

bwsb wrote:Would an WXGA+ screen fit in the X201T, and would it fit together with a multitouch? Does the panel's cable connector fit the display plug on the motherboard, etc.?

it might fit using tape or glue but won't match the screw pattern and likely be too thin.   multitouch might be transferable but would require moving parts in a dust-free environment.   i have my doubts as to transferring the parts though.

the connectors are completely different and in different locations.   as i said above, a jumper harness would need to be fabricated.

my quote above (the one fred quoted) is still the answer to your question.   you'll either have to spend the money to try it for yourself (and be prepared to replace broken/damaged parts during the testing process) or live with WXGA.

the 12.1" WXGA+ panel is becoming scarce.   the X201s was discontinued as a result.   there simply isn't a market right now for these displays -- at least in ultraportables.   the sales numbers probably didn't back them up, otherwise the WXGA+ panel would still be available in the X201s.

and, as i said above, putting a TN WXGA+ panel in a tablet is silly when you can buy a notebook with that panel already in it.   if it were AFFS/IPS/PVA then things might be different but TN in a tablet defeats the entire purpose of a tablet.

Ok.

- Might there be any even higher-resolution 16:10 panel out there that would fit into the X200T, for instance a WSXGA+ 1680×1050 panel?

- To get either that or a 42T0480 WXGA+ panel into it, would the laptop's BIOS need to be updated or modified?

Thanks,
Mikael

WXGA+ is the highest resolution 12.1" LCD on the market.

not sure about the BIOS.   i've not disassembled the tablet BIOS to see if WXGA+ microcode exists.   chances are better than not that WXGA+ is supported.

After two months with an X201T with multitouch, I would want:
better multitouch without stylus, just finger.
a keyboard light or backlight.
higher resolution on the 12 inch screen up to 1600 x 900 or at least 1400 x 900.

I got mine with the 128gb Lenovo sold SSD drive, but I am going to try a 500 GB Seagate drive this weekend instead.

A second hard drive slot in the base would be nice.

Just a wish list. The X201T is better than I thought it would be.

As long as this is a wish list, give me a 12 hour battery at full brightness.

barrywohl wrote:After two months with an X201T with multitouch, I would want:
better multitouch without stylus, just finger.

AFAIK there is such an option.

A second hard drive slot in the base would be nice.

You can install HDD in ultrabay slot in ultrabase using an adapter.

I tried putting the board of a X201t with the i7-620LM into my X200s case. Mechanically, it worked, had to make some minor adjustments like cutting a small part of the body, and soldering the power cable directly to the board.
Unfortunatly, I don't get a proper image on the WXGA+ screen. The image is shown in the left half of the screen only, and it's blurry. After flashing the BIOS, I get a nice and proper image _once_, i.e. the boot splash screen shows a nice "thinkpad". After that, it's broken again. Any ideas why this doesn't work?