Any sign of a new 13" ThinkPad?

[dvhart]

I'm a 9-year ThinkPad fan, and now have to replace the company machine I'll be returning here shortly. After finally deciding on the ideal form factor for me, I was disappointed to find that Lenovo doesn't offer a modern professional high-res 13" ThinkPad. The x301 appears now to be two years old and is absurdly priced for a system with such poor battery life and outdated CPUs. The x201s would have been a reasonable compromise, but Lenovo opted to not make it available with a web-cam (an odd choice for a 2010 model in my opinion) and now appears not to be making any more of them at all. Is there any "chatter" regarding the possibility of Lenovo releasing an updated 13" ThinkPad in the X line? Something between the x201s and t410s?

Wishlist:
13" Display
- 1440x900
- Integrated web-cam
8GB RAM
160 GB SSD
~2GHz Dual Core CPU
8+ hour battery life
< $2,000 USD

Thanks!

[chait]

Man, I have been asking the same question for some time. The 410s is too big/heavy (I know it is all relative). Plus, I wish they would have a 256GB SSD option (the 410s does not)....

[dvhart]

The t410s doesn't have the same win over the t410 that the x201s has over the x201 in terms of battery life, in part due to the inability to configure it with a 9 cell (x301 suffers from this as well). I don't care too much about options, generally speaking, one is better off getting the minimal config of user upgradeable parts and then hitting up crucial and newegg from RAM and an SSD (the Lenovo markup is pretty crazy). I've noticed the x201 series is slightly larger than other 12" notebooks (such as the hp elitebook 2540p) in order to accomodate the full size keys (well worth it), this leaves a significant amount of space around the screen. I wonder if an x203s could be made with nearly a 13" screen without changing the x20* platform much at all...

How about it Lenovo, we want a t310s or an x203s . (and put the web-cam back in the x*s model would you?)

[sanjuro]

Wishlist:
13" Display
- 1440x900
- Integrated web-cam
8GB RAM
160 GB SSD
~2GHz Dual Core CPU
8+ hour battery life
< $2,000 USD

There is little indication of any new thinkpad model that would satisfy all the items on your wishlist. Some people have asked for similar systems, something like X301 on steroids though. Long battery life will be hard to get in an ultraportable due to its limited size.

If you want an ultraportable with a faster CPU than X301, then you should look at Toshiba Portage R705:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/12/tosh ... 05-review/

[dvhart]

Wishlist:
13" Display
- 1440x900
- Integrated web-cam
8GB RAM
160 GB SSD
~2GHz Dual Core CPU
8+ hour battery life
< $2,000 USD

There is little indication of any new thinkpad model that would satisfy all the items on your wishlist. Some people have asked for similar systems, something like X301 on steroids though. Long battery life will be hard to get in an ultraportable due to its limited size.

This is actually just an x201s with a 1" larger screen and a web cam. That doesn't seem like a very tall order to me. The x301 battery life issues seem to be due to using older CPUs and having a very small 4-cell battery. With newer low voltage CPUs and a larger 9 cell battery, these specs don't look out of line to me.

If you want an ultraportable with a faster CPU than X301, then you should look at Toshiba Portage R705:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/12/tosh ... 05-review/

I took a look at that one. I don't think I would be satisfied with the keyboard, and I _really_ want to stick with ThinkPad for the build quality and Touchpoint.

[sanjuro]

This is actually just an x201s with a 1" larger screen and a web cam. That doesn't seem like a very tall order to me. The x301 battery life issues seem to be due to using older CPUs and having a very small 4-cell battery. With newer low voltage CPUs and a larger 9 cell battery, these specs don't look out of line to me.

No, it is not a tall order to build a modified x201s or x301 derivative with the features what you want.

What is difficult is convincing Lenovo that it makes a business sense to build a system consistent to your spec. The word is that X301 will be discontinued soon. Lenovo don't even sell X201s on their own website, though it is available through resellers.

Lenovo seems to think that existing models are good enough for the ultraportable market. If you want Lenovo to build an exciting, sexy ultraportable with the all the nice features you want, you have to make a more convincing case that it is in their interest to do so.

[dvhart]

Lenovo seems to think that existing models are good enough for the ultraportable market. If you want Lenovo to build an exciting, sexy ultraportable with the all the nice features you want, you have to make a more convincing case that it is in their interest to do so.

Absolutely, no argument there. I suppose "12 is too small, 14 is too big" just isn't adequate . I could probably come up with something more palatable for their product planning process, but that really is the gist of it!

[billp117]

Except for memory...maybe the EDGE?

[dvhart]

If you want an ultraportable with a faster CPU than X301, then you should look at Toshiba Portage R705:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/12/tosh ... 05-review/

Caution: derogatory remarks follow

I just took a trip to Best Buy to see the Toshiba R705 in person to make sure I wasn't unfairly discounting an otherwise capable machine. Compared to a ThinkPad or a Mac Book Pro, the R705 was flimsy, flexed A LOT, and the keyboard is hands down the WORST KEYBOARD I have ever used. In fact, my son's toy Cars laptop has a superior keyboard! Yuck. Considering the price, I was appalled. I learned one thing, I'd much rather sacrifice an 1" of screen size for the build quality of the ThinkPad.

[dvhart]

Except for memory...maybe the EDGE?

The 13" Edge is something I have been considering. I spent some time with the 14" model at a local office supply. They are definitely lacking in build quality relative to a "real" ThinkPad, but feature wise, they stack pretty well against my list wishlist. And since 8GB was for future proofing, it isn't such a big deal when the laptop is half the price - i.e. I can buy another one in 2 years instead of 4. The edge 2 big strikes against it for me:

1) Glossy screen (impossible to read with overhead fluorescents)
2) Much slower CPUs

The battery life is mediocre compared to an x201s, but it's really good compared to similarly priced consumer notebooks. Still, something to consider. (I was surprised to find that I really liked the keyboard).

[chait]

I currently have an x61s with an aftermarket 320gb 7200 drive and win7 that works just fine. The 12" screen is a compromise: I prefer a tiny, light machine (netbooks are not it for me) that is very handy in tight places and easy to carry. I use a docking station where I want a big screen (my office). I am looking forward for an upgrade in the same line of the 'natural' upgrades from x30 to x40 to x60, etc'. The tech support has been super and I would hate to lose that by switching brands.

[jl123]

"Absolutely, no argument there. I suppose "12 is too small, 14 is too big" just isn't adequate . I could probably come up with something more palatable for their product planning process, but that really is the gist of it!"

Lets think about this.

a.) May very well be no strong need for a 12' inch screen.
b.) Lenovo just revealed that they will not continue an X series in 13'.
c.) There will most likely be no 12 inch wide-screen as that is too small.

What does this tell us about future X-series plans?
J

[dvhart]

a.) May very well be no strong need for a 12' inch screen.
b.) Lenovo just revealed that they will not continue an X series in 13'.

Do we have a link to that announcement? I thought they just stated they would discontinue the x301, which has a lot of features which distinguish it from the x201* besides its 13" screen (thinner, optical drive, crappy battery life, absurd pricing...).

c.) There will most likely be no 12 inch wide-screen as that is too small.

It's slightly smaller than I would find ideal - but I think a lot of people really like the 12" screen. Do you have any other data suggesting the 12" screen isn't in high enough demand to keep the x20* series alive?

[jl123]

The x300 design was rather recent and amongst the most advanced chassis Lenovo make, why would they discontinue it right at the moment the refresh was due. Do you honestly think they will re-release it when the right low-voltage chip comes along in about 2 years? Doubt it.

As to data about 12 inch screen, no just an observation, it seems to be a size that is gradually losing popularity- and shelf space. Seems a size too square for movies, and a size to big for ultra-portables. But alas maybe there are enough business exec for which it IS the worthwhile choice- me included, due to its quality build. However its fate does seem doubtful. I mean to update the X200 chassis into some-thing fresh looking and with new features such as the carbon roll cage, better sound, and more ports, might be more of an R&D investment than Lenovo would deem appropriate, no?

My thought is they will keep transferring the small notebooks out of business (super well built and expensive) class and into economy. JL

[artic_squirrel]

Wishlist:
13" Display
- 1920x1080 and an option for 1600x900
- Integrated web-cam
-thinklight
8GB RAM
160 GB SSD
~2GHz Dual Core CPU
cold laptop
8+ hour battery life
rollcage
< $2,000 USD

Thanks!

what you propose is basically a x200.

I want a HR screen with a height greater than 1000px. Unfortunately, in a wide format, only a 13'' can do that in an ultra series without getting eye sores. Sony understands that, Lenovo doesn't and it is a shame....

[dvhart]

Wishlist:
13" Display
- 1920x1080 and an option for 1600x900

The former is 165 dpi. I have 145 on my w500 and _that_ is getting a little silly in terms of pixel density for a laptop. I love having the same resolution on my laptop as my external screen as that makes docking/undocking absolutely painless, but on a 13" screen, 1920x1080 is really just bragging rights. 1600x900 would be closer to the same density and I could definitely see that. I personally prefer the 16:10 aspect ratio over the 16:9, so the 1440x900 on a 13.3" screen (128dpi) seems like a real nice resolution. I'd prefer a higher quality screen technology over higher dpi at that point.

- Integrated web-cam
-thinklight

I think a backlit keyboard would be superior to the thinklight as it illuminates the keys uniformly, while the thinklight tends to focus on a rather small region.

[artic_squirrel]

1/ yes the dpi is high, but that is the sole way to get a height of 1000px in this cr**y wide form factor....

2/ the cool thing about the thinklight is it spreads light around and so it is better for the eyes, contrary to a backlit keyboard which is not another source of light

[artic_squirrel]

Actually, it would be nice to have a 16/10 screen wih a resolution of 1680x1050 => dpi=148.96
that is reasonnable.

[dvhart]

Actually, it would be nice to have a 16/10 screen wih a resolution of 1680x1050 => dpi=148.96
that is reasonnable.

Agreed. That matches the dpi on my w500 (1920x1200 @ 15.6"). That's a _really nice_ dpi, I don't think any more than that makes sense for laptop viewing distances. I'm sure it will double in time, but for now our dollar would be better spent on a better display technology than a dpi above 150.

[ov_Darkness]

I personally think it's not possible to fit 13" screen in x20x series because of space demands of wireless antennas under the screen, and protective shield around it. A clamshell design also has it's space demands.

I DO NOT WANT a 16:9 screen in business oriented laptop. The concept is silly, I think, because it has much less vertical resolution than standard screen.
What do you need ur laptop for? Excel? WWW? presentation? Then go for 4:3, 16:10 max.
If you need movies, attach a decent projector to ur Ultrabase :]
If you want to kill your vision watching movies on such tiny screen, go for Vaio Z.

I fear that times of true bussiness laptops are over. That's uncool.

I think 1440x900 is all you need in subnotebook. I have 1440x1050 in 19" CRT at home and that's cool for work.
What is important for me, is screen quality. AFFS display for x20x series are beyond cool

The x301 however is too pricey. You americans are lucky, because you not only earn more, you also have lower prices for these bauties. In Poland x301 cost about 2-3kUSD. And average monthly calary is about 1kUSD :-]
I haven't seen anyone here using this machine. I've seen 1-2 Vaio Z and maybe 2-3 macbook air's. And that's all.
I'm the only person I know, that bought a new Thinkpad.
Bottom line: x301 is to pricey for bigger part of the world. What would be nice it's lovering price, adding a WXGA+ AFFS display, ad maybe adding a LV CPU and a nvidia optimus graphics. (4500MHD is ok with me though)
That would be ultimate portable machine. Price: I think no more than 1000-1500USD.

[dfumento]

The t410s doesn't have the same win over the t410 that the x201s has over the x201 in terms of battery life, in part due to the inability to configure it with a 9 cell (x301 suffers from this as well).

You can replace the optical drive in the T410s with a 3 cell battery which will increase the time from about 4 hours to 6 hours. The "X" series don't come with optical drives either. I have had "X" series since the X60s and I rarely need the optical drive unless I'm watching a movie. With a software utility program you can "mount" ISO downloaded software in place of using the optical drive.

In the next platform, the Sandy Bridge, due in Q1 2011 I expect that there will CPUs with good performance with very low power consumption and perhaps Lenovo will opt for more of the "thin" laptops.

[dvhart]

You can replace the optical drive in the T410s with a 3 cell battery which will increase the time from about 4 hours to 6 hours..

You can do this with the T410 as well, so the 410s still doesn't have an advantage over the 410 in terms of battery life - which was my point.

[crashnburn]

Wishlist:
13" Display
- 1920x1080 and an option for 1600x900
- Integrated web-cam
-thinklight
8GB RAM
160 GB SSD
~2GHz Dual Core CPU
cold laptop
8+ hour battery life
rollcage
< $2,000 USD

Thanks!

what you propose is basically a x200.

I want a HR screen with a height greater than 1000px. Unfortunately, in a wide format, only a 13'' can do that in an ultra series without getting eye sores. Sony understands that, Lenovo doesn't and it is a shame....

Apparently you are describing the Vaio Z Series 13.1" top of the line machine Smallest machine with 1920x resolutions.

[dvhart]

Apparently you are describing the Vaio Z Series 13.1" top of the line machine Smallest machine with 1920x resolutions.

The Vaio Z has a very impressive set of specs. Unfortunately, it has a few other attributes that make it a non-starter for me.
- Very tied to the Windows platform (a lot more problems with Linux compared to ThinkPads - which tend to just work these days).
- Pretty poor reputation for support
- Glossy screen
- Chiclet keyboards are stylish, but I find them to be much less usable than the ThinkPad keyboard.
- I can't give up my TouchPoint! (but that isn't Sony's fault )

[crashnburn]

Apparently you are describing the Vaio Z Series 13.1" top of the line machine Smallest machine with 1920x resolutions.

The Vaio Z has a very impressive set of specs. Unfortunately, it has a few other attributes that make it a non-starter for me.
- Very tied to the Windows platform (a lot more problems with Linux compared to ThinkPads - which tend to just work these days).
- Pretty poor reputation for support
- Glossy screen
- Chiclet keyboards are stylish, but I find them to be much less usable than the ThinkPad keyboard.
- I can't give up my TouchPoint! (but that isn't Sony's fault )

I agree. I'd love to find a supplier for that LCD/LED (apparently its model no. is unknown via SIW when I asked on NBReviewForums) and see if it can be fit into some X series machine.

[chait]

I have looked at the Sony Z lappy. It has everything I want, though it is expensive. However, I have had great experience with IBM/Lenovo service, especially on-site and TPP. I have been hearing bad things about Sony service (though I cannot confirm) and could not see the on-site service option on their website.

[dfumento]

You can replace the optical drive in the T410s with a 3 cell battery which will increase the time from about 4 hours to 6 hours..

[You can do this with the T410 as well, so the 410s still doesn't have an advantage over the 410 in terms of battery life - which was my point.

The point I was making is that since today most people really don't need the optical drive they can get the equivalent of a 9 cell battery on the T410 by simply replacing the optical drive with the 3 cell battery replacement. If I didn't use the X201s and needed the larger screen of the T410s and still wanted 9 cells of equivalent battery life then I would do this.

[artic_squirrel]

Apparently you are describing the Vaio Z Series 13.1" top of the line machine Smallest machine with 1920x resolutions.

yes, the vaio Z is the sole laptop woth spending money on , besides an X

The two pros for the vaio:
-the weight
-the resolution
-a nvidia card [I hate intel's igp, especially the drivers]

the cons:
-bad linux support
-no culv cpu
-no trackpoint
-no on-site J+1 warranty if it is not bought via the professional website
[could be fine, but you cannot configure your laptop this way...]
-the semi-glossy screen
-absence of strong structure, for instance

-some hearing of the fan [not noisy but continuous]
-no hdmi output when on intel card


in the end, I am not fixed.

If only lenovo listened to us

[Tony Chan]

The point I was making is that since today most people really don't need the optical drive they can get the equivalent of a 9 cell battery on the T410 by simply replacing the optical drive with the 3 cell battery replacement.

Thought you meant T410s, as I think T410 would not accept ultrabay battery.

[dvhart]

Thought you meant T410s, as I think T410 would not accept ultrabay battery.

I just checked Lenovo's accessories listing. You appear to be correct. Thanks for the correction.