Thinkpads Forum

x61 still in the lead, this shouldn't be happening in the x20x forums... haha

comon x20x owners!

mikemex wrote:First of all, X61 is truly an ultraportable, while the X200 is not. For an ultraportable every gramm and milimeter counts and in this aspect the X200 is simply not on the same league.

The X201s is lighter than the X61s, 2.51 lb versus 2.73 lb. But I agree the large footprint of the X201s is a shame.

mikemex wrote:I'm sure that it obeys engineering reasons, like it was pointed before, had they made it less deep, it would have gotten a much smaller palmrest. I suppose they decided to make it wider both to acomodate a full size keyboard and at the same time a 6 cell battery.

I understand the advantage of making the lid deep, but it doesn't really need to be that wide to accommodate a large keyboard because the 16:10 screen is already wider than the X61s' 4:3 screen. It may not be a full-sized keyboard, but it would still be a larger keyboard than the X61s'.

mikemex wrote:Now that we are at it, I've thought that instead of going wider and wider, they could go back and make newer widescreens with an aspect ratio of 1.5 (1024x768 is 1.33 and 1280x800 is 1.66). The X200 could fit nicely a 13" screen with a resolution of 1440x960.

Did you know that the earliest Apple G4 PowerBooks actually had 15:10 screens? See this thread. It's a great idea.

mikemex wrote:X61 is truly an ultraportable, while the X200 is not.

Au contraire:
http://img2.pconline.com.cn/pconline/08 ... x61_7s.jpg

The X61 is just as thick, and heavier. I think the X20x series is actually better in terms of useability. I guess this would be different if I were trying to stuff it into a purse or something where the X61 would barely fit, but I throw it into a work bag. The width is necessary to provide a full-size keyboard, a massive asset over the X61 (although they could improve it by going to the chiclet style).

jvarszegi wrote:(although they could improve it by going to the chiclet style).

IMHO, the words "improve" and "chiclet" do not belong in the same sentence. Thinkpad keyboards are unbeatable. Please, no chiclets...

I wouldn't disregard something before I've tried it. You may miss out on something better.

Paul Unger wrote:IMHO, the words "improve" and "chiclet" do not belong in the same sentence. Thinkpad keyboards are unbeatable. Please, no chiclets...

IMNSHO, being a long-time Thinkpad user and having actually used the chiclet keyboard for a substantial time, it's a clear improvement. This is in large part due to the large amount of surface area on the top of each key, and the excellent tactile response. It's far easier to use than my other T and X series keyboards.

As a T60 owner with a 4:3 screen, my vote is for such a screen obviously.
Even 1024x768 resolution is more than enough in 14" size.

Of course, the quality of the screen is not exceptional, but that is another story... in the office, I combine the T60 with a 22" Samsung monitor with matte screen, and the combination is very good.

I suspect, though, that the future X2xx model will not change its chassis, only an internal refresh (Sandy Bridge, better power consumption, etc.), maybe some improvement in screen quality (personally, I HATE glossy screens)

N.F.

the X20xs with the 1440 x 900 resolution is such a good machine (provided that you can source one with this resolution), even the normal WXGA resolution version is good.

I have a X200, X61, X61s and X60. I think the X200 is a far superior model for road warriors, especially given that they weigh pretty much the same when compared to the X61, even though it is wider.

I have both an X60s and X200s, and I prefer the X60s form factor. The screen shape and machine size is preferable to me. However the x200s being a bigger machine and newer internal design keeps MUCH cooler than the x60s. That is about the only thing I like better apart from the 0.3lb weight savings. I can't stand the ugly bezel on the X200s. Why did they have to make the bezel so huge? The x60s has a thin bezel that is just gorgeous.


One other thing I must admit is that the x200s is better built than the x60s. The x60s is the most delicate Thinkpad I have owned, and the plastic parts break very easily. The x200s feels a lot more solid. However this has nothing to do with the form factor or bezel size IMHO. I have a Vaio-X which is entirely constructed of carbon fiber reinforced plastic and it is made of very thin material but it is rigid and strong. It does not chip or break. The X200s also has a top panel of a similar material and it is similarly strong. What Lenovo needs to do is to make a premium model where the cheap plastic surrounding the keyboard (palm rest) and used on the bezel is also carbon fiber reinforced plastic. Also while I am no aluminum fan, I must admit that the Macbook Air having aluminum around the keys and on the palm rest makes it feel more durable and less likely to suffer damage. Frankly I think Lenovo could learn something from both machines.

sxr71 wrote:I can't stand the ugly bezel on the X200s. Why did they have to make the bezel so huge? The x60s has a thin bezel that is just gorgeous.

To accommodate the larger keyboard.

FredGarvin wrote:To accommodate the larger keyboard.

Then how do you explain the thick display bezels of the T4** and T5**?

On the T410 I am holding right now that side bezels are likely thicker than on earlier models (T4x/T60) to accommodate the extra antennas (the number of wireless technologies is much larger now that it was a few years ago, and they need more antennas with better spacing to achieve better performance). The thickness of the top/bottom bezels allow convenient placement of the camera, as well as a palmrest that is deep enough to accommodate the larger touchpad.

Another factor is chassis space for the internal components. On the Z6xt models, for instance, the bezel is much slimmer than on later 14" wide models, which makes the machine more compact and somewhat appealing (to date it's one of my favorite designs), but there was a price to be paid - the chassis was not deep enough to fit the hard drive and the optical on one side, which forced them to move the hard drive to the other side of the machine and as a result - all three USB ports are on the same side, two of them are very close - most gadgets used in one would blocked the other. So usability suffered, if only just a bit.

The little extra space on the T410 chassis, though, allowed them to increase the number of USB ports to 4, keep the Firewire, add eSATA and DisplayPort, and still have all ports conveniently spaced. The small sacrifices - PC/ExpressCard-54 slot was ditched in favor of ExpressCard-34, and the 2 audio jacks were combined into 1. Looking at it, I actually think that they could have kept the /54 slot and both jacks, if they were willing to place them on the front of the machine. But so many people complained about that in the past, that Lenovo engineers probably saw this layout as the better compromise.

Why the bezel on the T510 is thick, though - I cannot answer for sure because I have never seen one, but consistency of design and style between that and the 14" model probably played an important part in the decision.

And the bezel of the T410 actually looks good, so its width is not a problem to me.

i miss the days when no one gave a second thought about trivial things like bezel width or offset displays.



those were good days.

That is so true! They must still have the patent on that keyboard, use it!

I purchased those for a loaner laptop pool when they were released. People fought over them. Apple products have inherited that affection, for now...

erik wrote:i miss the days when no one gave a second thought about trivial things like bezel width or offset displays.

It's not trivial if it makes the machine significantly bigger. Size is a major concern in a laptop as it affects portability (which is what laptops are all about).

pianowizard wrote: Then how do you explain the thick display bezels of the T4** and T5**?

To accommodate a larger screen.

Also, time to fan the flames a bit: in terms of typing feel, I'd have to say that in terms of typing feel the island keyboard currently shipping on the ThinkPads is one of my two favorite laptop keyboards of all time (the other being the design used on the 750cs). The layout is markedly worse for me, although not irreparably so.

That said, I've long since come to grips with the fact that (at least to me) a laptop keyboard will always be vastly inferior to a proper buckling spring keyboard -- so I'm perhaps a little less picky in this regard than I should be.

ThinkRob wrote:To accommodate a larger screen.

That's either a joke or you didn't think it through! Bezel is the space around the screen. You don't need a larger bezel for a larger screen. You do need a larger lid for a larger screen -- I bet that's what you were thinking.

pianowizard wrote: That's either a joke or you didn't think it through! Bezel is the space around the screen. You don't need a larger bezel for a larger screen. You do need a larger lid for a larger screen -- I bet that's what you were thinking.

</joke>