Thinkpads Forum

If you could still get the same hardware on the inside, would you prefer the 4:3 format or do you prefer the widescreen format?

I'm talking in terms of

aesthetics
screen layout
keyboard layout and feel
size, dimensions

etc and anything else you guys want to talk about.

I have a x61s, x60s, and an x60 and was looking to get an x201 probably within the next year or so.

Also on a sidenote, anyone have a pic where the two are side by side, I couldn't find one on google.

Admin note: Merged duplicate threads. There were 3 votes for X61s and 2 votes for X201s in the other thread which did not transfer.

Thanks Admin,

dup

Both have pluses and minuses. X201s gives higher resolution (1280x800, and even 1440x900 as an option), whereas X61s can only give you 1024x768 (screen mods for 1400x1050 exist).

Some prefer the 4:3 format, some prefer the widescreen. For instance, if you are a person who likes to view printed pages at "page width" setting, 4:3 is going to be better for you, since you would get more lines in a single screen. For side-by-side viewing of applications, widescreen may be better.

I find the design of the X61s aesthetically much more pleasing. The bezel of the X200 series is too thick and ugly. Laptop feels flimsy (although it is mostly just a feeling, hence I consider it as a design flaw, not an engineering one). Another flaw in it is that despite the shorter screen, the thick bezel makes the laptop almost just as tall as the X61s, so it loses its theoretical advantage in cramped spaces, and the overall footprint is larger due to the extra width.

However, the extra width brings one noticeable advantage - the keyboard is full size, whether on the older X series the rightmost keys (Enter/Backspace/Backslash/RShift) are noticeably smaller.

Also, X201 series has DisplayPort on the Ultrabase, so you can connect a digital monitor (X6x can only do analog VGA).

Here's that side-by-side picture you were looking for:
http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/34779.jpg

let's put it this way:
16:9 is great only for multimedia viewing.
4:3 wins hands down for:
screen balance, form factor, internet browsing, document-presentation writing, not taking into account all of the graphic stuff.
Also keyboard layout is far better manageable.
BTW, the real BIG improvement is LED display...
G.

While the X61s is a bit smaller than the X201s, it's a bit heavier than the X201s. I prefer a wide screen for Internet. XGA is too small in my opinion, but the question becomes is the pixel density on the WXGA+ screen too high? It's 140+ while the X61s is 105. I would say yes for me, but perhaps you would like it. If it is too high, then maybe the X201 might merit consideration. It's only slightly heavier than the X201s and has a more manageable WXGA resolution, which I think is perfect for a 12" A X201s or X201 gets you a very good full sized keyboard, though the X61s keyboard is very good too. There's some good pictures of the X200 and X61 in the review of the X200 over on notebook review.

ggiglio wrote: Also keyboard layout is far better manageable.

AFAIK X20* have the same keyboard that full-size Thinkpads has.

ggiglio wrote:let's put it this way:
16:9 is great only for multimedia viewing.

The X201s is 16:10.

ggiglio wrote:4:3 wins hands down for:
screen balance, form factor, internet browsing, document-presentation writing, not taking into account all of the graphic stuff.

A high-res 4:3 screen would be good for internet browsing and Office work, but in this particular case, the X61s has a primitive 1024x768 resolution. When the X61s was still in production, virtually all other manufacturers had stopped using such a low res for several years. For me, 1024x768 greatly hinders productivity. My i Series 1124 has 1024x768, which I don't mind because I only do extremely simple things on this machine and because its screen is only 10.4", but for a 12.1" screen, 1024x768 is ridiculous.

Regarding form factor, I agree that widescreen laptops over ~14" are a bit clumsy to carry around, but for 12.1" units, both 4:3 and widescreen are quite compact. However, as far as the keyboard is concerned, 12.1" widescreen laptops have the advantage of having full-sized keyboards, as others have pointed out. Also, 12.1" widescreen laptops tend to be less deep than 12.1" 4:3 laptops, meaning the screen is less tall when the laptop is in use, so it's easier to use a widescreen laptop on a plane.

In conclusion, in terms of form factor, I slightly prefer the X201s over the X61s, whereas in terms of resolution, the X201s wins hands down.

I'll take an x61s (or even x61t) form with the new technology from an x201s. I'd love to get an Intel i5 cpu in my x61t.

I hate that the x201s screen seems to be a downgrade from my x61t screen.

The review with pictures mentioned earlier is located here.

It seems to me that more thought went into the design of the X61. It's the smallest fully-usable keyboard I've found and I'm not sure how it could be made any smaller. Following on from that, the screen takes almost the full physically available space dictated by the base.

In contrast, the X200 seems thrown together. Lenovo punted on the keyboard design, it's bigger and has a smaller screen. It even has fewer ports (no firewire). I would have preferred Lenovo stick with the X61 chassis but continue to upgrade the internal hardware and increase the pixel density of the screen.

aceo07 wrote:I hate that the x201s screen seems to be a downgrade from my x61t screen.

That's because you're X61t has an IPS screen while the X201s has a regular TN, which will be no match quality wise.

harrigan wrote: In contrast, the X200 seems thrown together. Lenovo punted on the keyboard design, it's bigger and has a smaller screen. It even has fewer ports (no firewire). I would have preferred Lenovo stick with the X61 chassis but continue to upgrade the internal hardware and increase the pixel density of the screen.

I don't think it's thrown together. Yes, one of the keyboard FRUs is inferior to the X6x keyboards, but actually think the build quality is fine otherwise.

I still prefer the X6x though, mainly because of the 4:3 screen and the smaller footprint -- but the smaller bezel and classic IBM internal design certainly don't hurt!

Edit: Oh, and (at least on the X200s), you really can do this (although I didn't try it with the 9-cell battery...) Not really "thrown together" IMHO...

Yeah, I think the X200 is built just fine. I meant thrown together more from a design perspective. Everything on the X61, to me, just seems like it was carefully designed to go together and the resulting small footprint is a big bonus. I think it would be interesting to see an X200 that had a footprint much closer to its screen size.

Also, I've never used an X61 with the external WWAN antenna which does seem like a bit of an afterthought.

harrigan wrote:It seems to me that more thought went into the design of the X61. It's the smallest fully-usable keyboard I've found and I'm not sure how it could be made any smaller. Following on from that, the screen takes almost the full physically available space dictated by the base.

In contrast, the X200 seems thrown together. Lenovo punted on the keyboard design, it's bigger and has a smaller screen. It even has fewer ports (no firewire). I would have preferred Lenovo stick with the X61 chassis but continue to upgrade the internal hardware and increase the pixel density of the screen.

They should've kept the smaller keyboard which is what made the x series stand out, now it's just like the rest

They should've made the x20xs smaller than the x61s, i'm kinda turned off by the x20x's now. I love my small backspace and enter buttons. The keyboard of the pre x20x series were so wel designed. It they were gonna go wide they should've made it an 11 inch laptop and kept the old keyboard.

I have a X61 and a X200.... its a no-brainer for me, the X200 is FAR FAR superior to the X61 in every respect.

Cheers,

Bill B.

uux wrote:The review with pictures mentioned earlier is located here.

thank you. i was looking all over for that.

ThinkRob wrote:
Edit: Oh, and (at least on the X200s), you really can do this (although I didn't try it with the 9-cell battery...) Not really "thrown together" IMHO...

I agree with you there but what's up with the thickest border in the world around the screen? that's just a waste of prime real estate

pianowizard wrote: The X201s is 16:10.



A high-res 4:3 screen would be good for internet browsing and Office work, but in this particular case, the X61s has a primitive 1024x768 resolution. When the X61s was still in production, virtually all other manufacturers had stopped using such a low res for several years. For me, 1024x768 greatly hinders productivity. My i Series 1124 has 1024x768, which I don't mind because I only do extremely simple things on this machine and because its screen is only 10.4", but for a 12.1" screen, 1024x768 is ridiculous.

Regarding form factor, I agree that widescreen laptops over ~14" are a bit clumsy to carry around, but for 12.1" units, both 4:3 and widescreen are quite compact. However, as far as the keyboard is concerned, 12.1" widescreen laptops have the advantage of having full-sized keyboards, as others have pointed out. Also, 12.1" widescreen laptops tend to be less deep than 12.1" 4:3 laptops, meaning the screen is less tall when the laptop is in use, so it's easier to use a widescreen laptop on a plane.

In conclusion, in terms of form factor, I slightly prefer the X201s over the X61s, whereas in terms of resolution, the X201s wins hands down.

I agree that 1024 x 768 pixels is way too little real estate and that has always been lenovo's weakpoint. I'm with you that lenovo should have offer a higher resolution screen.

But the x20x's are almost the same size of a x61s when opened when it should be smaller. The footprint of the laptop got wider which is expected but it did not get shorter which I have a problem with. The x series is suppose to be thinkpad's ultraportable line and the wasted real estate around the screen just bugs me. If this happened to the R series or even the T series it wouldn't bug me as much but not the x series.

harrigan wrote:Yeah, I think the X200 is built just fine. I meant thrown together more from a design perspective. Everything on the X61, to me, just seems like it was carefully designed to go together and the resulting small footprint is a big bonus. I think it would be interesting to see an X200 that had a footprint much closer to its screen size.

Also, I've never used an X61 with the external WWAN antenna which does seem like a bit of an afterthought.

Ah.

Well I think that might be due to the fact that the X6x is (arguably) an evolution of the X4x design, whereas the change to 16:10 necessitated a new chassis design for the X200. Perhaps a future X2xx will see the same sort of improvements that occurred with the jump from the X4x to X6x design?

so far 14 to 9 in favor of the x61s...

bill bolton wrote:I have a X61 and a X200.... its a no-brainer for me, the X200 is FAR FAR superior to the X61 in every respect.

Cheers,

Bill B.

I agree with Bill B., particularly after I did the AFFS mod on my X200. I've owned both machines and there is no comparison in my mind.

Harryc wrote: I agree with Bill B., particularly after I did the AFFS mod on my X200. I've owned both machines and there is no comparison in my mind.

so you wouldn't want all of the features of the x200s in a x61s form factor at all even if it came with the AFFS screen with it's resolution?

I think lenovo should have both options. It may not be cost effective but I'm sure there will still be a market for it.

codek wrote:
so you wouldn't want all of the features of the x200s in a x61s form factor at all even if it came with the AFFS screen with it's resolution?

No, I like the wide screen format in Ultraportables.

codek wrote:so you wouldn't want all of the features of the x200s in a x61s form factor at all even if it came with the AFFS screen with it's resolution?

I have no idea what question you are actually trying to put here?

My X200 does everything that I'd hoped my X61 would do (when I bought it as my first smaller format ThinkPad), but that the X61 was never quite up to doing.

Cheers,

Bill B.

bill bolton wrote: I have no idea what question you are actually trying to put here?

My X200 does everything that I'd hoped my X61 would do (when I bought it as my first smaller format ThinkPad), but that the X61 was never quite up to doing.

OP said:

I'm talking in terms of

aesthetics
screen layout
keyboard layout and feel
size, dimensions

It means that CPU performance, TN vs IPS and other inner difference should not affect your answer.

I was never a big fan of X61/s generation, so in unaltered form, X20x/s gets my vote. Not a pretty machine for my eyes, but a full-size keyboard takes precedence over somewhat clumsy design in my book.

That being said, if I had a choice between X6x modded to an AFFS SXGA+ LCD and a X20x modded to the WXGA AFFS panel, I'd take the former. Display properties - both quality and resolution - supersede everything and anything else when I'm concerned.

in my opinion, the X201s benefits over the X61s in these areas:
- full-size keyboard vs. 92%
- 900 vertical pixels vs. 768 (excluding modded systems or the SXGA+ X6 tablets)
- cool, quiet operation without a hot palmrest
- more robust construction
- lighter weight
- longer battery life
- expresscard slot vs. cardbus slot
- device-charging USB socket
- displayport output on ultrabase
- SATA-native ultrabase
- second battery charging port on ultrabase
- keyboard with proper red/blue trackpoint buttons and black power/volume buttons (X6 keyboards were flat-out ugly)

I'm a bit biased toward the X61s footprint purely due to the SXGA+ screen mod. I even bought a X61s so I can swap the screen and have a faster processor.

I like how there is little 'wasted' space on this unit. The display bezel is thin, the keyboard goes right up to the edge of the base. I don't mind the smaller keyboard; I never really used the far right sides of the backspace/enter/et al keys anyway.

The footprint of widescreen notebooks have always been a bit strange to me. I understand that the X200 and it's 16:10 screen require a wider base, but to me, there's just a lot of perceived extra space around the bezel, both horizontally and vertically, that doesn't need to be there. I would be completely fine with having a shorter palm rest (with no trackpad) to better fit the space actually taken up by the screen.

However, the X200 is a decent compromise- normal palm rest for components and ergonomics, screen situated as high as it can feasibly go to minimize neck strain.

While I could easily still carry a widescreen notebook in my backpack (vertically), I appreciate the 'shortness' of the X6-series to allow for more room.

it's hardly surprising that the x201s outperforms the x61s in the mentioned areas...it is after all, a generation later. there's no question that the x201 offers more bang-for-the-buck than the x61s.

i think what the OP was polling about was, "if Lenovo made a 4:3 version of the x201 which had similar peforming specs in all the main areas, which model would people likely buy"?

personally, i like and miss the 4:3 displays. i would be more than willing to go back to a 92% keyboard, paired to a 1280x1024 display, with the same cpu and battery life that is available on the x201 and that would be my ideal laptop. there's likely no reason that Lenovo couldn't do it except their profit margin per unit would be less because the 4:3 LCD displays are more expensive to manufacture.

the fact that the voting is currently evenly split 50-50 rather disputes the notion that people nowadays prefer widescreens over 4:3 displays, at least with long-time laptop users.

filmbuff wrote:the fact that the voting is currently evenly split 50-50 rather disputes the notion that people nowadays prefer widescreens over 4:3 displays, at least with long-time laptop users.

The sample size is FAR too low to form any reasonable opinion at all on the preferences of people nowadays, whether they are long time laptop users or not.

Cheers,

Bill B.