Thinkpads Forum

miscthree wrote:So far I've narrowed the nas list down as follows:

Iomega StorCenter ix2-200 (4TB)
Readynas pro
Readynas nv+
D-Link DNS-323

There are others I looked at but these made my shortlist.

After thinking about a homemade nas, that will be a project I'd like to do later on, once I learn what the hell you guys are talking about!

I've said that several times before: you can purchase a prebuilt branded WHS-based NAS.
Examples include Acer EasyStore, Tranquil's home servers, HP's MediaSmart servers, Lenovo IdeaCentre D-series and more.
Such a server will replace both NAS and router and more.

penartur wrote: No, i'm not conflating it.
With RAID0, one will surely lost all their data in case of single drive fail. With JBOD there is a possibility of restoring some data (depending on FS).
With RAID0, it is impossible to upgrade storage at all (without rebuilding an array). With JBOD there is a possibility of adding a new HDD (depending on RAID implementation and FS) and maybe even removing an old one (depending on RAID implementation and FS, and only in case HDD scheduled for removal is the first or last in array).
With RAID0, one will experience higher reading/writing speeds. With JBOD speeds will be roughly the same.
Drive extender is something like RAID0, but on files level (rather than blocks level), so it can work on HDDs of different capacities and allows for HDDs adding/removal. Also, it allows for data redundancy of RAID1 sort (although not on all but only on a random two HDDs in array to save the space), again, on files level.
I'm using Drive Extender, and for home it is really much better than any flavor of raid.

Ah, I suppose I misinterpreted your previous post. Sorry about that.

With regards to JBOD: it really depends on the implementation since (as you know) there isn't a "standard JBOD" configuration.

Drive Extender has a couple of neat features, but with Microsoft cutting support for it, I'd have to wonder if now is the best time to set up a new storage box based on it...

Also, if you're considering filesystem-level solutions, ZFS is a possibility. It's got a much longer history and a whole bunch of features that aren't offered by Drive Extender or traditional RAID.

ThinkRob wrote:With regards to JBOD: it really depends on the implementation since (as you know) there isn't a "standard JBOD" configuration.

I've mentioned that some features are depending on JBOD implementation and on filesystem used.

Drive Extender has a couple of neat features, but with Microsoft cutting support for it, I'd have to wonder if now is the best time to set up a new storage box based on it...

Microsoft is not cutting support for it. They did a stupid move of removing that feature from Windows Home Server R2 (which move can kill the entire product, because Drive Extender was the main feature and key selling point of WHS), but WHS V1 is still supported, and it will be supported (=patches will be released) AFAIK until 2014 or so (and you are free to use it even after that).

Also, if you're considering filesystem-level solutions, ZFS is a possibility. It's got a much longer history and a whole bunch of features that aren't offered by Drive Extender or traditional RAID.

Yes, from what i have heard, ZFS comes close to Drive Extender. However, this leaves hardware choice pretty much the same as for WHS (i doubt one can get ZFS support on d-link NAS discussed above). And Windows Home Server is extremely user-friendly, i believe even a housewife can configure it.

I explored the WHS devices and studied the products and I'm open to using it on a machine I already have to use as the dedicated server.. It's interesting how many great reviews the Microsoft WHS has gotten!

The ideacentre looks sweet too! Penartur has forced my eyes open!

miscthree wrote:I explored the WHS devices and studied the products and I'm open to using it on a machine I already have to use as the dedicated server.. It's interesting how many great reviews the Microsoft WHS has gotten!

The ideacentre looks sweet too! Penartur has forced my eyes open!

You're welcome

I don't remember whether i've said it in that thread, but if you will ever go building up your own dedicated WHS server, i'd recommend a Chenbro ES34069 case. And, if you want it to be more than mere NAS, you can install Zotac H55-ITX motherboard in it, then install Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1 with Hyper-V on it (if you have dreamspark access), install WHS on a virtual machine, and use that box simultaneously as gateway/router, WHS NAS and HTPC (and many more).

Well after a little more research Iearned that WHS v2 is on the horizon which makes me pause to start using the v1..is it worth waiting for? I can download the beta version I guess but I want something stable and robust and relatively bug free..

miscthree wrote:Well after a little more research Iearned that WHS v2 is on the horizon which makes me pause to start using the v1..is it worth waiting for? I can download the beta version I guess but I want something stable and robust and relatively bug free..

It is completely don't worth it, as Drive Extender was removed from WHS v2. There is a public outrage on this issue (because Drive Extender was the key feature of WHS), and i totally agree with that outrage. I don't see any point in WHS v2, nor i can imagine the target audience for it.

penartur wrote:

miscthree wrote:Well after a little more research Iearned that WHS v2 is on the horizon which makes me pause to start using the v1..is it worth waiting for? I can download the beta version I guess but I want something stable and robust and relatively bug free..

It is completely don't worth it, as Drive Extender was removed from WHS v2. There is a public outrage on this issue (because Drive Extender was the key feature of WHS), and i totally agree with that outrage. I don't see any point in WHS v2, nor i can imagine the target audience for it.

This thread should end, but since we're on a roll....

Hmm..I really do like the chenbro setup, especially the dedicated 2.5" boot drive feature. I'm learning gradually here what's possible..

I don't like getting something when I know that a newer version is just around the corner but if whs v1 is as solid as people claim, then I'm sold..

miscthree wrote:Hmm..I really do like the chenbro setup, especially the dedicated 2.5" boot drive feature.

Yes, i like it too - 2.5" hdd (or maybe even a ssd) for boot (i'm using 160GB HDD pulled out from my thinkpad when i did an upgrade to 500GB) and four 3.5" bays for data.

I don't like getting something when I know that a newer version is just around the corner but if whs v1 is as solid as people claim, then I'm sold..

The main point there is not that v1 is that solid, but that v2 won't include Drive Extender (so there is no point in using v2 over any dedicated NAS solution).

penartur wrote:

miscthree wrote:Hmm..I really do like the chenbro setup, especially the dedicated 2.5" boot drive feature.

Yes, i like it too - 2.5" hdd (or maybe even a ssd) for boot (i'm using 160GB HDD pulled out from my thinkpad when i did an upgrade to 500GB) and four 3.5" bays for data.

I don't like getting something when I know that a newer version is just around the corner but if whs v1 is as solid as people claim, then I'm sold..

The main point there is not that v1 is that solid, but that v2 won't include Drive Extender (so there is no point in using v2 over any dedicated NAS solution).

Gotcha..I found the chenbro es-34169 mini itx..how does that differ from the one you suggested?

Also I found what looks like a great deal on a Dell server..no hotswap bays and huge but dual xeon and everything else looks legit??

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-PowerEdge-SC14 ... dZViewItem

That dell server is pretty old now, it uses the Pentium 4 based Xeon processors, my suggestion is to avoid it. Also the price of that server is not that cheap either.

miscthree wrote:Gotcha..I found the chenbro es-34169 mini itx..how does that differ from the one you suggested?

Wow, it seems that they upgraded their ES34069 with that new model. However, i can't find what was changed; it seems pretty the same as ES34069, except for that expansion backplane (maybe it means that you can install any low-profile PCI card with any number of ports in it).

Also I found what looks like a great deal on a Dell server..no hotswap bays and huge but dual xeon and everything else looks legit??

It looks like an ordinary tower with a Pentium-IV based Xeons and fast SCSI drives you won't need because of their low capacity. If you're looking at such towers, i'd suggest you to purchase a common desktop with a Core 2 Duo, at least it won't consume as much energy and won't emit as much heat and noise as that Dell PowerEdge will. There is no point in purchasing that PowerEdge for your goals.
However, even a common desktop will serve you much worse than ES34069 for your goals. The benefits of desktops are that they're cheap, they allow for more powerful CPUs (you cannot install a quad-core in ES34069 because of its weak power supply and the problems with heat sink) and they allow for discrete graphic cards (or even three f you like that SLI feature). I doubt you will need a quad-core or powerful NVidia GPU in your NAS, so the only advantage remaining is the price. If you can afford ES34069, then buy it.
As for the internals, if you're going to use it not only as NAS, i'd recommend you Zotac H55ITX motherboard. It has six SATA ports (which is quite rare on Mini-ITX motherboards) so you can connect all four 3.5" hdd plus a 2.5" boot HDD plus a optical drive (if you're going to install one) to it, it has LGA1156 socket for CPU (so that you can install e.g. Core i3-530 in it, as i did; note that you will need a CPU with GPU integrated), and it has a mini-PCI slot occupied by 802.11n card (and if you're lucky, it will be based on RaLink chip, which supports AP-mode - so that such a box will work as a WiFi access point). Cons are: weird port layout (SATA ports are located on the farthest edge so that SATA cables can hardly reach the ports, and you need to lay these so that they will avoid the CPU; and internal USB ports are located in the farthest corner, so that USB cable from card reader integrated in the case won't reach that ports at all) and wifi card is hit or miss (there was an AzureTech card in my first H55ITX, which did not support AP mode and did not support Vista very well; but card in my second H55ITX was based on a Ralink chip, it works great under Vista and does support AP mode in 802.11g).
Then, if you have a MSDN subscription or access to MSDNAA or to DreamSpark program, you can install Windows Server 2008 R2 with SP1 beta on it, enable Hyper-V, install Windows Home Server in a virtual machine, and after some configuration you will get NAS, gateway/router, WiFi access point (if you're lucky with wifi card) and HTPC in a single case.

Excellent..the H55-ITX board: would that board allow me to connect to my wireless N router over wifi so that the chenbro can be connected directly to my HDTV? I'm a little ambivalent about spending so much to put this box together only to have to buy a media streamer for my HDTV as well..

miscthree wrote:Excellent..the H55-ITX board: would that board allow me to connect to my wireless N router over wifi so that the chenbro can be connected directly to my HDTV? I'm a little ambivalent about spending so much to put this box together only to have to buy a media streamer for my HDTV as well..

I don't completely understand what do you want to get.
1) miniPCI-E WiFi card in H55-ITX will allow you (if you're lucky) to replace your wireless router with that computer, so that you don't need a dedicated wifi router device in your home anymore.
2) You can connect that computer to your TV (if it has a HDMI input) with a common HDMI-HDMI cable, so that your TV will act as a computer's display.

I have a following setup:
Chenbro ES34069 plus Zotac H55-ITX (with a RaLink-based wifi card) plus Intel Core i3-530 plus 4+2GB DDR3 RAM plus some 160GB 2.5" HDD plus 1+1.5+2+2TB of storage; that computer plus an UPS inside of a cabinet for TV made by IKEA; and large Philips LCD TV on that cabinet, connected to a computer by HDMI cable.



The only electronic devices in my home are (except for the stuff like cell phones, mp3 players etc) my laptop, my wife's laptop, that Philips TV and ES34069-based computer.

Nice setup! I decided to go with an HP N36L microserver..running windows 7Ultimate(hehe) with FreeNAS via VMware. It doesn't have a dedicated 5th drive bay for the OS but it works for me..I was a little hesitant to build up the chenbro because it was a little too much work, the N36L basically worked right out of the box..

I might get rid of the freenas as the microserver has embedded raid..but we will see..

Thanks for all your help guys, it set me on the right path!