Thinkpads Forum

these pictures come from forum.51nb.com/forum.thinkpad.cn,,a technical forum of thinkpad related in China,,

http://forum.51nb.com/attachment.php?ai ... update=yes
http://forum.51nb.com/attachment.php?ai ... update=yes
http://forum.51nb.com/attachment.php?ai ... update=yes

if the links are not available(need to register on that forum,,),,go to the link below,,pls:)
http://www.51nb.com/viewnews-63147.html

cosmos wrote:these pictures come from forum.51nb.com/forum.thinkpad.cn,,a technical forum of thinkpad related in China,,

http://forum.51nb.com/attachment.php?ai ... update=yes
http://forum.51nb.com/attachment.php?ai ... update=yes
http://forum.51nb.com/attachment.php?ai ... update=yes

Thanks Cosmos but we can't view the pictures if we are registered on this forum :/

Pictures can be viewed on this link, from the same website: http://www.51nb.com/viewnews-63147.html

I can't see any fastening mechanism for the lid... I hope to see that on the official pictures.

I don't love the new power/volume buttons. However, I do like the fact that the trackpad has lost its independent set of buttons.

I look forward to seeing how the completely finalized product turns out. I'll wait for reviews before I pick one up though. The X201 seems to have the IBM Thinkpad spirit. I always have my doubts when I see a new system from Lenovo.

It is weird that it seems to have no latches.
Also, is it an apple-style touchpad?
PS: And i've just noticed that it seems to be short of LED indicators, i can see only wireless (WAN/WiFi/BlueTooth) LEDs on the photo.

http://www.51nb.com/viewnews-63179.html


The latches seem to be removed,, and add USB 3.0 and Display Ports,,

Admin note: Merged separate threads. Please keep all posts related to this topic in this thread.

I dont see a 3.5 audio jack for mic, just speaker. just a bit strange.

bobdsmith wrote:I dont see a 3.5 audio jack for mic, just speaker. just a bit strange.

it's a combination jack with a three-pole TRS connector for stereo out and mono in, just like on a cell phone.

the same jack is used on all current thinkpad models that use the new large esc/del keyboards.

I would hope at the VERY least the could have transferred over some of the tech from the x300-t-400 like the top and bottom roll-cage and carbon bits. But I get the strong feeling this is the same chassis albeit widened a bit. Not sure this class of X series is as good as the equivalent hp anymore. J

jl123 wrote:I would hope at the VERY least the could have transferred over some of the tech from the x300-t-400 like the top and bottom roll-cage and carbon bits. But I get the strong feeling this is the same chassis albeit widened a bit. Not sure this class of X series is as good as the equivalent hp anymore. J

There is nothing wrong with the magnesium alloy top and bottom casing used on the X series, it is quite good. Given the dimension of the machine, using the internal rollcage, will increase the production costs and assembly complexity. My guess is the screen casing will most likely be some sort of GFRP and/or CFRP mixture, similar to those of the T4x0s, X30x, etc.

Finally, the last holdout to the screen ribbon thing is gone! I welcome the new X series, and hope that they can make a true X220s that is as slim as the X301/T410s.

According to the English translation offered by Google Chrome, the LCD is 12.5 inches, 16:9. I guess the same screen that's used in the 12.5-incher announces a few days ago; can't recall the resolution. I doubt it's AISS, much less an 8-bit-per-channel technology like IPS or PVA.

jl123 wrote:Not sure this class of X series is as good as the equivalent hp anymore. J

That's a HUGE call to make from some photos of what is probably a production prototype

Maryland, USA wrote:According to the English translation offered by Google Chrome, the LCD is 12.5 inches, 16:9. I guess the same screen that's used in the 12.5-incher announces a few days ago; can't recall the resolution. I doubt it's AISS, much less an 8-bit-per-channel technology like IPS or PVA.

expect the X220 series to be 12.5" 16:9 @ 1366x768.   also expect all panels to be TN except on tablets.

not sure what "AISS" is unless you mean AFFS.

for clarification, AFFS, IPS, PVA, and TN notebook panels are 6-bit, not 8-bit.   very few notebooks claim to have true 8-bit panels (and you could count those claims on one hand with a few fingers missing).   to date i've only seen 8-bit claimed but not proven in panel manufacturer datasheets.   if an 8-bit notebook panel truly exists then i'd like to see the datasheet (honestly).

I stand corrected about AFSS and my supposition that all IPS and PVA panels are 8-bit.

I just discovered that Wikipedia has a nice overview of the various panel types at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD .

erik wrote:expect the X220 series to be 12.5" 16:9 @ 1366x768.

Are you implying that you know for sure there won't be a higher-res option? Also, do you know whether there will be an X220s? If yes, perhaps the X220s will have 1600x900 in addition to 1366x768, while the X220 will only have 1366x768?

BTW, the IdeaPad U260 is 12.5" 1366x768.

pianowizard wrote:BTW, the IdeaPad U260 is 12.5" 1366x768.

correct.   it is.

Laptops are designed for large audiences, not someone in particular. Standard resolutions for monitors are around 90-100 DPI and are considered to be good enough to let most people read text on it comfortably, specially aged people. The screen on the X220 is already high resolution at 125 DPI. There is a lot of people who can't read text that small comfortably and that's a loss of potential customers. A resolution of 1600x900 in a 12.5 screen (and 145DPI) is to ask too much. Back when I purchased a Dell Inspiron 800m with a WUXGA 15.4" years ago, which has about the same high DPI, I realized that it was pushing things way too much. I have pretty good eyesight but text was still unconfortably small.

If you want more pixels, get a larger screen. Keep in mind that a notebook with a small screen is not meant to be your primary computer.

mikemex wrote:If you want more pixels, get a larger screen. Keep in mind that a notebook with a small screen is not meant to be your primary computer.

Why ? Nobody said that the higher (I'd say 'normal') resolution will be the only resolution available. It is about options, the feature he have lost with the transition from IBM to Lenovo. Many years ago you could buy ThinkPad with 15" display having the choice of resolutions from 1024x768 to 2048x1536. That's what I call 'to have options'

The same choice is still available (yet) for desktop monitors, at least the last two companies who takes the industry seriously (NEC and Eizo) offer desktop monitors having pixel size around 0.250 mm. This is the only acceptable PPI for me since my eyes (or the brain processing the image ?) can't stand those 'large audience' mega-pixels 0.27 mm or even 0.29 mm.

Back to the topic, does it mean that the X220 will be even larger than X200 due the 12.5" display ? That's another reason to introduce true 11.1" ThinkPad. I don't understand why it is limited to the X120e only which is underpowered and have the childish keyboard.

mikemex wrote:Back when I purchased a Dell Inspiron 800m with a WUXGA 15.4" years ago, which has about the same high DPI, I realized that it was pushing things way too much. I have pretty good eyesight but text was still unconfortably small.

In the modern OSes (Vista and later), you can configure the DPI setting to match the real DPI of a screen, so that text will be of its real size.

Puppy wrote:Back to the topic, does it mean that the X220 will be even larger than X200 due the 12.5" display ?

LCD makers decided to make it 12.5" instead of 12.1" in order to keep the surface area more or less the same as that of 12.1" 16:10 panels. A 12.1" 16:10 screen is 65.80 square inches, whereas a 12.1" 16:9 screen would be only 62.55 square inches.

mikemex wrote:A resolution of 1600x900 in a 12.5 screen (and 145DPI) is to ask too much.

146.86 DPI, almost exactly the same as 15.4" 1920x1200 (147.02 DPI). To me, this pixel density is optimal for laptops. Not great for comfortable viewing, but a perfect compromise between viewing ease and productivity while on the road. But I agree that I wouldn't want to use such a pixel density on my primary monitor.

Puppy wrote:Nobody said that the higher (I'd say 'normal') resolution will be the only resolution available. It is about options, the feature he have lost with the transition from IBM to Lenovo. Many years ago you could buy ThinkPad with 15" display having the choice of resolutions from 1024x768 to 2048x1536. That's what I call 'to have options'

Well said! And welcome back! Where have you been? I am glad you are back because this forum needs more people who criticize Lenovo. If we criticize Lenovo loudly and frequently enough, they may eventually listen to us and give us what we want, i.e. more Thinkpads with non-terrible screens and high-res options. In recent months Lenovo has had quite a few very good sales and coupons but I couldn't find a single Thinkpad that was worth buying.

pianowizard wrote:Well said! And welcome back! Where have you been? I am glad you are back because this forum needs more people who criticize Lenovo. If we criticize Lenovo loudly and frequently enough, they may eventually listen to us and give us what we want, i.e. more Thinkpads with non-terrible screens and high-res options.

Hi. I've given up on any possibility to buy a new notebook. That's why I no longer participate in related discussions. It is hopeless, I don't believe Lenovo listens. I'm getting excited by digital camera market because you can choose almost everything you dream about there without any compromises and silly excuses. The exact opposite to the crippled notebook market offering toys only instead of serious products

pianowizard wrote:In recent months Lenovo has had quite a few very good sales and coupons but I couldn't find a single Thinkpad that was worth buying.

Same here. I was tempted to buy an X201 (local configuration finally includes WWAN module, after the years ...) and do the display mod but skipped the idea later. The new X220 "increases" the productivity by 768 vertical pixels only comparing to X200's 800 pixels, another reason to forget it.

Puppy wrote:Hi. I've given up on any possibility to buy a new notebook. That's why I no longer participate in related discussions. It is hopeless, I don't believe Lenovo listens. I'm getting excited by digital camera market because you can choose almost everything you dream about there without any compromises and silly excuses. The exact opposite to the crippled notebook market offering toys only instead of serious products

So when i purchasing some camera model, i can choose between IPS or TN screen? Or at least i can choose between different resolutions?
Last time i saw that cameras, there was not any choice except for what accessories do you get with it (and, in case of <i>some</i> cameras, what user-replaceable battery and lens you get). You cannot even choose integrated memory capacity.
Just imagine if laptop market was like that, when the only thing you can choose when configuring a laptop are battery capacity and whether or not you need the external DVD burner.

The new X220 "increases" the productivity by 768 vertical pixels only comparing to X200's 800 pixels, another reason to forget it.

How do you know it will be 1366*768? Do you have any new info on the new X220? The only details about X220 i saw were some prototype photo leaks on some chinese site, without any mention on the new resolution.
Oh, and, by the way, there was a 1440*900 option on X200s/X201s. Certainly not high enough, but still better than 1280*800.

Just imagine if laptop market was like that, when the only thing you can choose when configuring a laptop are battery capacity and whether or not you need the external DVD burner.

I think you missed his point: In the cam industry, manufacturers excel each other in providing the best of the best for a dedicated group of professionals. In the notebook industry, however, almost everyone (maybe except for Panasonic) is going mass commercial and gives a [censored] [censored] about the professionals' needs. Apple and Lenovo are two good examples recently.

You got to admit that there is something to that. It would be all the more interesting to study the reasons behind this change of marketing: Why does it not pay off anymore to do premium notebooks? Did technology become too far advanced for that corporate clients don't see the pay-off anymore? Is higher resolution on notebook screens that much less important than on a cam? Why do consumers care so much about the grip of a camera but so little about screen resolution and keyboard haptics?

Important components for this study certainly are:
a) base price (Notebooks are more expensive than cams by default.),
b) entrance costs (It's much more expensive to establish a new notebook company than camera company, I presume.)
c) consumer awareness (The efficiency loss when working with a widescreen panel and crappy keyboard is not as easily measurable as the picture quality of a cameria.),
d) corporate policies for hardware purchase (I bet they have started saving there.),
e) brand awareness (Many more players in the notebook industry than the camera business. You also care more about the component brands than simply the whole package - except for Apple, of course.),
f) client base (This is actually in favour of cameras).

Or put it differently: If we all crave so much for a good old x40-style notebook with updated components, why does nobody of us go and set up a notebook company of its own? Right! Where to get a) the money, b) the designers, c) the licenses, and d) the know-how. So, it's still cheaper to pressure the Lenovo guys. Yet, obviously, they don't understand English and thus, the second best alternative is to a) move off to more dedicated competitors like HP and Dell (They have improved tremendously, you gotta admit!) or b) wait until the Thinkpad team is sick themselves and jumps off to create their own company. You could sponsor them.

Have you ever wondered why did IBM sell its computer division?

IBM is a logistics company and back when notebooks were very expensive, companies were interested in keeping them running well for a long time to protect their investment, so they choose IBM because they offered a good product itself, but better than that, a product that was thought to be easy and inexpensive to mantain.

However, as prices fell, companies started to realize that it was no longer attractive to keep their systems for long. For example, let's take memory: 1GB of DDR memory costs about the same as 2GB of DDR2 and with time it will cost about the same as 4GB of DDR3. Would you spend $60-80 upgrading a T40 to 2GB when you can get 8GB for the same money on a T410? And not only that, I'm looking at the T410 right now and price starts at $750 (maybe less with cupons). I'm not sure what the T40 did cost on its days, but I bet it was around $1,500. If in 8-9 years it's value fell from $1,500 to $150, you're losing $1,350 for 9 years of usage. However, if you purchase a T410 now and sell it 9 years from now, it will probably be worth the same $150, but it costs you only $600 to use it for 9 years. Oh, I'm sorry, $450 if you sell the T40. So again, where is your money best placed?

Get it? Notebooks are not durable goods and most customers are realizing it. Even if it's in perfect shape, most people will upgrade their systems a few years down the road, simply because there is going to be a more attractive technology by then and it will be wiser to put money over it. So companies like IBM were no longer able to sell the idea of a notebook as a durable good and simply closed down the business, because they were more interested about providing service than to selling computers. Lenovo inherited the quality of the product itself, but did not follow the focus on service, which is very bad compared to IBM's. They are aware that computers are so cheap now that most people will simply get a new one.

And the reason behind all this is that machines work for free while humans get paid for it. The less human work (such as service), the cheaper the final product will be and in the end, the more profitable the business will become. Companies are after profit and nothing else.

Get it? Notebooks are not durable goods and most customers are realizing it.

Doesn't the same apply for cameras? While I definitely agree with your interpretation of that Intel law there, it doesn't mean that you could build more office-oriented notebooks and even claim a premium. We are not talking about service here anymore, but simple design. Profits, as you said.

penartur wrote:So when i purchasing some camera model, i can choose between IPS or TN screen? Or at least i can choose between different resolutions?

Yes, recent cameras have OLED displays and up to 1 million dots on 3" 4:3 display. The display component on camera is not the key component, the sensor and lenses are. There is really wide selection of options, from cheap (and bad) tiny 1/2.33" CCD ones, through better CMOS or BSI-CMOS used in ultrazooms to serious APS-C or full-frame sensors used in professional DSLRs. You can get better product every ever.

Karakasa wrote:Or put it differently: If we all crave so much for a good old x40-style notebook with updated components, why does nobody of us go and set up a notebook company of its own?

Few months ago Fuji has announced a retro-style compact camera X100 for professional and enthusiast photographers. The price is expected to be around 1200 USD per unit. And yes, they don't have even 15000 confirmed preorders The customers gets their lovely "X40" stuffed with the latest technology.

Puppy wrote:Yes, recent cameras have OLED displays and up to 1 million dots on 3" 4:3 display.

You missed my point.
I can find a camera with an OLED display. I can't pick an arbitrary camera and order it with an OLED display.
I was talking not about a choice between different models, but about a choice between different screens in the same model. Lenovo provides that choice for most of their thinkpads. Camera manufacturers do not provide that choice.