Thinkpads Forum

The x220 design looks much better than the design of the current x20x series.

The upper bezel is completely clean. While the keyboard area looks a little bit larger, the vertikal area looks smaller - and they even cared to put a larger touchpad in this area, too.

I was thinking of getting an x200s as the x201 series uses the ix cpus which I think tend to be hotter. But now - I am looking forward to know more about the new upcoming x series from lenovo.

Here's a vote for the X200s. The Intel LV and ULV CPUs run cooler and will probably produce less fan noise. Plus there's no AFFS mod for the X120e. Those are two very tangible benefits of the X200s

No AFFS mod for X220 either, since X220 has switched to 16:9 12.5" display

khtse wrote:No AFFS mod for X220 either, since X220 has switched to 16:9 12.5" display

What makes you think they won't eventually release a tablet with similar screen dimensions? (the tablet is likely to have some kind of non-TN screen)

I would point out none of the LED screens from the X200t or X201t will work in the X200 or X201. I'm sure there will be a X220t with a similar screen, but will it be compatible? That remains unknown and based on past history, there's a pretty good chance they won't.

ssd_thinkpad wrote:I was thinking of getting an x200s as the x201 series uses the ix cpus which I think tend to be hotter. But now - I am looking forward to know more about the new upcoming x series from lenovo.

if you push tend to push your cpu to heavier loads, then yes, the x201 will run a little hotter, but not significantly so i've found.

on the flip side, the x201 gets about 30-45 minutes more battery life than the x200s (in my head-to-head tests) and with the extra processing power on the i5, i think the x201 is the better overall machine unless you need to run 1440x resolution.

FredGarvin wrote:I would point out none of the LED screens from the X200t or X201t will work in the X200 or X201. I'm sure there will be a X220t with a similar screen, but will it be compatible? That remains unknown and based on past history, there's a pretty good chance they won't.

I'd rather they just offer those nicer screens as options for the non-tablet models directly

Wouldn't we all.

I really like the current design of the X20x. this looks good to though, the top bezel is a bit to plain, but I could get used to it.

the biggest problem I see is the touchpad, not really a problem unless there isn't an option to only have the touchpoint. come on lenovo, don't let me down, you know how much I despise though wretched trackpads... you already let me down with making the x100 without the option of touchpoint only, don't do that to me again

Turn the darned thing off, and it's like not having one to begin with.

dr_st wrote:Turn the darned thing off, and it's like not having one to begin with.

it still looks god awful...

The design is official:

http://shop.lenovo.com/ISS_Static/ww/wc ... asheet.pdf

I like how the topper bezel is cleaner. The x220 looks more like a minimal keyboard now! With attached screen

Wow, IPS screens now as an option on X220!
I wonder why the only CPU options are standart-voltage 35W CPUs. For example, Intel sells 2649M for the same $346 as 2620M lenovo puts in their X220; and the former, albeit being 200MHz slower in Turbo Mode and 400MHz slower in normal mode, has TDP of only 17W, which is two times less than for 2649M. In terms of Core 2 Duo (X200) it is like P-series in X200 vs SU-series in X200s.

I like how the topper bezel is cleaner. The x220 looks more like a minimal keyboard now! With attached screen

Just some figures:
X220 is 305mm*206mm, while X200/X200s are 295*210mm. That means that X220 is 1cm longer while X200 is 0.6cm deeper.
If we will look at the screen sizes, 12.1" 16:10 is 261mm*163mm, and 12.5" 16:9 is 276mm*155mm. New screens are 1.5cm longer, and old screens are 8mm higher
It means that the screen bezel is thinner by 5mm (2.5mm on each side) when measured horizontally, but thicker by 2mm (1mm on each side) when measured vertically.
Another interesting thing is that X220 thickness varies from 19 to 34.6mm, while X200 thickness varies from 20.7 to 35.3mm, and X200s thickness varies from 20.7 to 28.7mm. It means that X220 seems to feature the same cooling system as X200 had, and probably it will heat as much as X200 did (as opposed to X200s). It is sad that there is no X220s option with LV/ULV CPUs and with a thin cooling system.

penartur wrote:It is sad that there is no X220s option with LV/ULV CPUs and with a thin cooling system.

you're assuming all of the product announcements are done.   perhaps there's more to come?   you never know.

I'm glad they kept the blue enter key, and the red and blue trackpoint buttons

edit: it still sucks they can't put decent graphics in the thing. I don't WANT to spend $700 to build a desktop just to get good enough graphics to do work in blender or run programs that need a good graphics card.

I mean, I can live without it. here I am typing this out on a X200 with crappy graphics. I don't play games on my computers, the most I do is minecraft or some freeware indie games. so I can do without. its just sad they lenovo can't, after all this time, put a decent card in it.

TreyRust, the SB integrated graphics are said to be more than decent; and that's precisely why I'd be buying the X220 instead of the X201.

Kinda sucks that there's no latch mechanism.

TreyRust wrote: its just sad they lenovo can't, after all this time, put a decent card in it.

They have put a "decent" GPU in it in the form of the integrated graphics. What they haven't done -- and likely won't do -- is put dedicated graphics in it. Business travelers (the target demographic for the X2xx series) aren't exactly huge gamers, and nobody sane is doing CAD or animation work on a 12" subnotebook. That pretty much leaves college students as the only group that would benefit from discrete graphics in a subnotebook, and I'm pretty sure that the X2xx line isn't deisgned with their needs in mind.

Colonel O'Neill wrote:Kinda sucks that there's no latch mechanism.

why do you need a latch?   books don't have latches and haven't caused any "suck" for centuries.

TreyRust wrote:I mean, I can live without it. here I am typing this out on a X200 with crappy graphics. I don't play games on my computers, the most I do is minecraft or some freeware indie games. so I can do without. its just sad they lenovo can't, after all this time, put a decent card in it.

X2** line is designed to be portable. That means: thin, lightweight and with a great battery life.
If you want something with a decent dedicated GPU in it, then there is enough of thick, heavy laptops with sucking battery life.
Why don't you complain that there is no quad-core CPUs in X2** line?

erik wrote:why do you need a latch?   books don't have latches and haven't caused any "suck" for centuries.

Even more, all laptops i've had before (look at my signature) didn't feature a latch mechanism.
However, i've kinda get used to X200 latches, and no latches on X220 is just not "cool".

penartur wrote:...and no latches on X220 is just not "cool".

given that it removes parts to break, extra holes in the palmrest, and a small amount of weight, i would opine that not having latches is "cooler".

penartur wrote: X2** line is designed to be portable. That means: thin, lightweight and with a great battery life.
If you want something with a decent dedicated GPU in it, then there is enough of thick, heavy laptops with sucking battery life.
Why don't you complain that there is no quad-core CPUs in X2** line?

uh, hows about the macbook air? in the same price range... dedicated graphics, amazing bettery life, and could slice a loaf of bread? the problem is, apple is a freaking cult, and I HATE trackpads, so i stick with the X series.

I don't complain about the CPU because its a great all around CPU, it doesn't need to be a quad core. I'm not complaining about the CPU, I'm complaining about the GPU.

apple can do it for less with a real graphics card, albeit with a crappy CPU, but sense the X series costs more and is a bit chunkier, I expect more, especially because its my main computer at the moment.

ThinkRob wrote:
They have put a "decent" GPU in it in the form of the integrated graphics. What they haven't done -- and likely won't do -- is put dedicated graphics in it. Business travelers (the target demographic for the X2xx series) aren't exactly huge gamers, and nobody sane is doing CAD or animation work on a 12" subnotebook. That pretty much leaves college students as the only group that would benefit from discrete graphics in a subnotebook, and I'm pretty sure that the X2xx line isn't deisgned with their needs in mind.

well call me insane, because I animate on my X200. I could care less about PC gaming, but thats not why I want dedicated graphics.

granted, the animation I do doesn't require I very powerful graphics card, I do 2D animation, but I still do it and it works out fine. this is my main machine, so I would like it to have all that I need.

and if its really that insane to do CAD or 3D modeling on this thing, then I can always hook up to my 23" monitor, who would be insane then? I just like having my main machine small enough to take anywhere, yet powerful enough to do what I need when I hook up to my desk. unlike these huge desktop replacements that you need a forklift to get on a plane

TreyRust wrote:uh, hows about the macbook air? in the same price range... dedicated graphics, amazing bettery life, and could slice a loaf of bread?

the MBA doesn't have amazing battery life. and from what i've read, apple has had to revise their 'estimates' benchmarks for better accuracy.

i'm glad their isn't a discrete graphics on the x series. we don't need it as it would just use more power and generate more heat. users that need GPU power typically desire a bit more screen space than the 12-12.5" form factor. and for those that do [need it], there are other companies that are filling that very specialized niche with their offerings.

there are thinkpad models with better GPUs, just not in the X-line and that suits me just fine.

filmbuff wrote:
the MBA doesn't have amazing battery life. and from what i've read, apple has had to revise their 'estimates' benchmarks for better accuracy.

i'm glad their isn't a discrete graphics on the x series. we don't need it as it would just use more power and generate more heat. there are thinkpad models with better GPUs, just not in the X-line and that suits me just fine.

alright, but you don't have to have the dedicated graphics turned on, heck, if lenovo would just give us the option to have dedicated graphics, then we would all be happy. thats all I'm asking. but its pointless, because lenovo isn't gonna listen.

and yes I know there are thinkpads with good graphics, but I also want it to be portable like the X series. and I didn't say I couldn't live with it, I am living with it right now, its just it would be nice.

TreyRust wrote:uh, hows about the macbook air? in the same price range... dedicated graphics, amazing bettery life, and could slice a loaf of bread?

Yes, how about macbook air? With its really powerful dedicated GPU, amazing battery life of at least 10 times more than X220 has with an easily replaceable battery, and its ultra-advanced CPU from the future (especially for the laptop that was released in late 2010) with a choice of SU9400/SL9400?

apple can do it for less with a real graphics card, albeit with a crappy CPU, but sense the X series costs more and is a bit chunkier, I expect more, especially because its my main computer at the moment.

MBA - consumer-class laptop, two-generations old and slow CPU, non-replaceable battery, power-hungry GPU with performance comparable to that of sandy bridge, relatively weak battery life (6.5 hours for browsing with 40% brightness from a 50W*h battery, considering it's an SSD and the screen is LED-backlit), non-replaceable SSD.
X220 - business-class laptop (support, easily disassembleable, ultrabase etc), new and fast CPU (although it is sad that there is no X220s) which absolutely blows that old SL9400, replaceable batteries + slice battery, integrated GPU with performance comparable to that of 320M, strong battery life (up to 15 hours advertised = about 14 hours for browsing from a 94W*h battery), hybrid replaceable storage.
I can see only two benefits of MBA. First is that it is 13" (and some people will enjoy 16:10), and the second (for some people, not for me) is "WOW, its an APPLE!!!"

TreyRust wrote:alright, but you don't have to have the dedicated graphics turned on, heck, if lenovo would just give us the option to have dedicated graphics, then we would all be happy. thats all I'm asking. but its pointless, because lenovo isn't gonna listen.

...and an option to have quad-core CPUs, and an option of 5.1 audio system with integrated subwoofer, and an option of RAID 10 built on 3.5" HDDs...
X-series are supposed to be thin and lightweight. Current X220 chassis is not suitable for dedicated GPU; if you will look inside X200s, you will see that there is just not enough place neither for dedicated GPU nor for GPU cooling system. In order to gave you option of having dedicated GPU, lenovo would have to redesign the entire chassis, making it much thicker and heavier - for all users, not just for those who want dedicated GPU.
And if you will say that Apple managed to find the place required in their MBA: there is no PCMCIA slot in MBA, there is no 3 miniPCI-e slots in MBA, there is no 2.5" HDD in MBA (and with the latest revision, there is no even 1.8" HDD), there is no removable battery slot in MBA... you should have read apple press-releases more carefully, and then you would knew what they did in order to squeeze all the MBA internals in such a case, and then understand why this is a no-way for Thinkpads.

and yes I know there are thinkpads with good graphics, but I also want it to be portable like the X

And the only reason for absence of dedicated GPU option in X you can think of is that lenovo doesn't want you to have a dedicated GPU in your X?
Why don't you want to purchase e.g. T420s?

I'm not asking for that much, its a subnotebook. there are sacrifices, all I am saying is that after all these years, lenovo still haven't put real graphics in it. but it doesn't matter, I'm still gonna cling to there computer computer like a moth to a light bulb at midnight.

you guys are missing my point, yes, the X series is much better than the MBA. all I was saying was that, a year ago, apple fit a dedicated GPU into something smaller than the X series, I wasn't comparing the MBA to the X220

and so if the 320m is comparable to sandy bridge, great, I'm impressed. intel managed to put last gen tech into a current CPU.

seriously, all I was talking about was a measly dedicated graphics chip. nothing blow your mind crazy, just enough to comfortably do blender and similar applications, but sense I didn't know that sandy bridge had that, I was asking for dedicated graphics.

and I wasn't talking up the macbook air, its not THAT great of a computer, I wasn't talking about the 13" either, I was talking about the 11.2". and ALL I meant by even starting to mention the macbook air, was to say that apple put a dedicated GPU into last years computer, which is thinner than a thinkpad. and I know if lenovo had to make the thinkpad thinner it would loose the changeable battery, the upgradable ram, the computer that you can actually do anything with other than type on a crappy "chicklet" keyboard. so since its better than that, I'm sure they could pull it off. but either way I guess it doesn't matter, since sandy bridge is about as good as the 320m. even though the 320m is getting old.

Not trying to reignite the war, but here are the rumored specs for the 2011 MBA: http://churchit.com/new-13-macbook-air-specs/

Yes, the MBA is thinner (heck even the MBPros are thinner) than the X2xx series, but they do sacrifice some things:

1. Hardware Limitations: No Interchangeable Battery / Soldered Ram / SSD only , etc.
2. No Rollcage
3. Chiclet Keyboard w/o liquid drainage
4. Thin but fragile sceens (Thinkpad screens are pressure tested on the center/back of the screen to see if they distort). Try picking up a MBA/MBP by it's screen....
5. Aluminum instead of plastic allows for thinner construction (at the sacrifice of cost). Thinkpads will probably be not made from Al anytime soon.
6. Thinkpads are mil-speced.

All of those things contribute to the thickness of the Thinkpad system. But wait, what about the X300/301? Now that's a fair comparison. Less than 1" thin AND included an optical drive bay whilst conforming to Thinkpad standards. Ahh... If only they took the X300 formfactor, chopped it a little bit to fit around a 12.1" screen, and got rid of the optical bay... Battery life would be pretty abysmal though. I'm sure they could make it work maybe increase the thickness of the battery so it becomes the palmrest (like the Fujistu T2020) at the expense of the stupid trackpad (but they don't!!!!!!).

EDIT: Forgot to talk about price. Apple is awesome. It is SO awesome that it has a huge cult following which allows them the capability to solely rely on their own chain stores to sell their products, effectively cutting out the middleman. Apple has its own software (no paying MS) and is pretty inhouse when it comes to design. Plus, they sell a HUGE volume of computers compared to Thinkpads. No one computer manufacturer can compete on a level that Apple can in terms of price and even in hardware (iPad uses a 4:3 screen, which supposedly no one else can get). They have the resources, an extraordinary demand, and an extraordinary low overhead. This usually equals more bang for the buck.

That's interesting can it have two SSD's? One occupying the WWAN slot?