Thinkpads Forum

Hello everyone. I'm considering getting an x220 laptop and I'd like to know what is the practical performance difference between the i5 and i7.
Benchmarking sites show that the i7 is 5 to 10% faster, but is this worth it in the long run?
This laptop will be my primary mobile computer used for AutoCAD and programming, with occasional HD videos and light games.
Thanks for all replies!

If you're maxing nearly all the time, then perhaps so. Personally I would say no. For general usage stuff there will be no difference.

I suppose you already know the i7 version also comes with a USB3 port. I'm buying it, because I keep machines a long time and will probably want USB3 down the line. You probably also know the i5 and i7 are identical, except for a slight bump in clock speed and 1MB extra cache on the i7. It's applications that benefit from the extra cache that may show a noticeable performance increase, I would say. Unfortunately I don't use AutoCAD, so can't add anything more useful.

Thanks for all the replies so far!

When I originally asked this question, I assumed that these processors mirror their desktop versions in that the i7 supports hyperthreading and the i5 does not. After having reviewed intel's spec page on the mobile versions, I realize that this is not the case, and the clock speed and cache are the only differences between the processors themselves.
I also did not know that the i7 version of this laptop comes with a USB3 port and the i5 version does not.

I don't buy new computers every day, and if the x220 lives up to my expectations then it will be my primary laptop for at least the next 3 years.
For comparison, I'm currently using an ASUS F8SN laptop that I bought a little over 3 years ago. In terms of performance, it was outstanding when I got it, and is still more than good enough for most basic tasks that don't involve games. However, the computer is made out of plastic. The case is scratched and has tiny cracks around the hinges from when I dropped it. The CD drive vibrates excessively. And the keyboard - even though it has better than average response for a laptop keyboard - has a little too much crumbs and junk accumulated between the keys. It's also a bit heavy and really heats up whenever you push it. I will, however, miss the roomy touchpad and the 1440x900 screen resolution.

As I said before, I don't buy new computers frequently, and when I buy this one, I would like to maximize those things that I think I will need and would not be able to upgrade myself later. At the same time, I don't want to waste money on useless stuff.
For example, these are customizations that I have decided to make to my model:
Basic Display -> IPS display with 2x2 antenna
No Webcam -> Webcam
No Bluetooth -> Bluetooth
Thinkad Wireless card -> Intel Centrino Advanced N 6205
6-Cell battery -> 9-Cell battery

I will not customize the hard drive or RAM, as I can upgrade these on my own later. The one thing I am undecided about is the processor. My original choice was the i5 2520m, and I am considering if the i7 2620m is worth the nearly $200 extra they ask for it.
This is why I would really appreciate it if anyone can give reasons why the i7 processor is worth the extra money down the line - or why it's not worth it.

On an unrelated note, does anyone know precisely what kind of modifications Lenovo does to the basic Windows 7 OS? They claim that their version is optimized for faster startup and resume from sleep. My current Core 2 Duo laptop with Windows 7 can boot up in around 1 minute, and resume from sleep in under 5 seconds. Is lenovo's version significantly faster, and would I loose this if I chose to install my own Windows 7? Are there other features I would lose that I wouldn't be able to regain by downloading Lenovo's drivers and software?

Personally, I wouldn't pay for it. I went with i3 myself, but I don't really do anything I need a lot of oomph. You can get an ExpressCard USB 3.0 card for a lot less.

Zcool31 wrote:used for AutoCAD

Get the i7.

Cheers,

Bill B.

bill bolton wrote: Get the i7.

Cheers,

Bill B.

Herr admin has spoken! Zig Neil!

Differences between i5 2520m and i7 2620m include L3 cache (3MB vs 4MB), CPU Clock (2.5 vs 2.7 GHz) and Turbo (3.2/3.0 vs 3.4/3.2 GHz).

I have a similar configuration on order. My first recommendation is to stick with the premium (IPS) display you've already selected. A lot of the standard Thinkpad displays are really bad. This should be different.

To the person who bought the i3 and recommends saving money by getting a USB3 ExpressCard, I'll say two things. First, Intel's processor naming is hugely confusing. It's not just about the base clock speed and cache. i3 CPUs may miss features such as Turbo, AES new instructions and some or all virtualisation instructions (VT-x, VT-d). Turbo helps with single-threaded applications, the AES instructions roughly double the encryption speed for products such as TrueCrypt and VT-x / VT-d should speed up virtual machines like Windows XP mode. As you've already found, there is no real consistency in the naming between desktop, mobile and ultra low power CPUs. Looking it up at the Intel web-site is the thing to do.

Second I think it's highly unlikely a USB3 ExpressCard will be recognised by the BIOS in a pre-boot (e.g. DOS) environment. If you require that for a disk cloning or backup solution to a USB3 attached drive, you will be out of luck. On the other hand, the built-in USB3 port should allow it (pending confirmation, once I get my machine).

I still use an almost 8 year old Thinkpad T30 daily, because I prefer the 4:3 screen and it's got higher contrast than the T410s screen, which I'm sorry I bought (hence the X220 with IPS screen on order). I have to say the T30 has held up really well. There are no cracks in the casing, except for the hard-drive drawer (from swapping disks over the years and a bit of an awkward design). The hinges are still almost as firm as they used to be and have none of that wobble that so many other laptops have. The keyboard and trackpoint still work as good as ever. None of the keys have fallen off. The display is a little dim, but less so than my previous Thinkpad T20 was after 3 years. While one of the memory slots failed, the chronic disease of the T30 model, I use an ostensibly unsupported 1GB module in the second slot. I also replaced the fan with a part from eBay after about 5 years or so. The DVD-burner was replaced, but I used a generic OEM part, much cheaper than buying Lenovo. I replace hard disks as a matter of routine. Of all of those things, only the fan failure required me to disassemble the machine. If you're tech-savvy enough to do that - no soldering involved - my T30 has fundamentally been a great reliable machine. The only serious design flaw was the infamous memory slot issue.

By contrast I owned a Panasonic CF-62 many years ago. This was before they invented the Toughbook brand, but it was a fierce expensive high-end machine and already had a completely rigid and indestructible mag-alloy display lid. Despite Panasonic being on the way to their "tough" identity, that machine was garbage as far as longevity. After 3 years it was finished. While the outside-lid was mag-alloy, the plastic surround of the screen on the inside cracked all over the place. I had a sneaking suspicion it wanted to expand with heat, but couldn't against the completely rigid mag-alloy lid. Furthermore the keyboard fell apart (keys fell off), as did the power supply socket. The CD-ROM / PD (pre-cursor to DVD-RAM) drive also packed it in, which is bad when it's a proprietary, built-in drive you can't swap out. To top it all off the CPU would occasionally make mistakes by the end, similar to an overclocked CPU on the verge of becoming unstable. It made me wonder whether Panasonic's cooling solution was all it was cracked up to be (fans seemed fine). Admittedly this was when Panasonic only started getting into the notebook market. They possibly didn't have enough experience back then. (This is water long under the bridge and completely unscientific, but yeah, I'll blame them ).

Zcool31 wrote: ...
For example, these are customizations that I have decided to make to my model:
Basic Display -> IPS display with 2x2 antenna
No Webcam -> Webcam
...

Why not go with the 3x3 antenna if you're not getting the webcam? I don't remember it being an expensive option.

I think he is going for the webcam. The -> arrows indicate what he changed from the default.

FragrantHead wrote:I think he is going for the webcam. The -> arrows indicate what he changed from the default.

That's what I get for posting before the second cup of coffee!

FragrantHead, I love how when describing your old ThinkPad laptop, you mention all these serious problems it had and how you had to jump through hoops to fix them. I imagine any other less tech savvy user would give up and get a different computer. On the other hand, saying you love this computer despite all these problems means either that it has some incredible defining feature of which I am not aware, or that you are extremely biased in favor of Thinkpads.

I have a Dell desktop from 2002 where the only problem was a failing memory module and dust clogging the heat sink. Today, this machine is perfectly suited for running Windows XP for light tasks, or most light-weight versions of Linux. On the other hand, the desktop I built myself in 2006 and upgraded a little every few years since then seems to be of vastly superior quality. This is not because the parts are newer and more powerful. It is because of the care I put in maintaining the system. I will claim this despite the fact that this system has burned out 3 different power supplies and overheated regularly until I installed an aftermarket heatsink.

Now back on topic. I would like to thank everyone for their input, and let everyone know that I've pretty much decided to go with the i7 processor. For my new job, the x220 will be what I use for AutoCAD and everything else, and the time I save with the slightly faster processor will make up the price difference in weeks.

I would like to ask if anyone knows of a way to use multiple coupon codes on Lenovo's site. I've found three different 10% off coupons for thinkpad laptops, but their shopping cart only lets me enter one. Is there a way to bypass this? Would I have any luck trying to get their reps to do this for me?

Thanks for all the help!

I ordered a Core i7 x220 tablet (42962YU) from CostCentral for less than Lenovo's price. Not sure if you will find the same for the standard x220, but wanted to mention it in case you weren't aware of the option.

Zcool31, reading that back, yeah, I guess I am biased. The defining feature of the Thinkpads, for me, are of course the keyboards. Truth be told it's a combination of being used to the layout and what I consider genuinely useful attributes, such as high quality feel, the gaps between the function keys (switching to other laptop keyboards, I really noticed that I use those to find keys without looking) and of course the trackpoint with the all-important middle button. I also find many Dells horrible simply because the keyboard is recessed and there is no slope down from the palm-rest to the keyboard.

Another user may well have given up at the memory slot problem, which happened after 3.5 years. All it took however was buying a cheap module at twice the capacity for the remaining slot. The machine has been in use almost every day for long (working) hours. I am definitely attached to it. What made it was no serious problems with the CPU, screen, keyboard and casework. I guess with eBay these days neither of those would have been a problem for the serious DIYer either. Hmmm ... nah, I'm sticking with my story .

I'm inclined to agree about the quality of ThinkPad keyboards. One of my classmates has an X201 tablet and let me try typing on it. I have to say that the keyboard on that computer is second only to the Unicomp (IBM Model M copy) I use on my desktop. One thing that annoyed me was how frequently I hit the little nub when trying to type the GBH keys. I suppose I'll adjust to that quickly enough.

What I really look forward to on the x220 is the smaller size, lighter weight, and better performance than my current computer.

I'd still like to know what Lenovo does to their version of Windows 7, and how I can stack multiple coupons when buying from their site.

I just did a factory restore on my T410s. Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, 4GB RAM, i5-520M CPU, 128GB Samsung SSD. I have a hard-disk password that the BIOS asks for before booting.

Time from hard disk password to Windows logon prompt: 22 seconds

After removing the Windows password:

Time from hard disk password to Windows desktop: 24 seconds
Time from hard disk password to end of disk activity / all system tray icons: approx. 35 seconds

I think Lenovo may have worked with driver manufacturers to eliminate any unnecessary pauses during boot. They may have also chucked out any unnecessary standard drivers altogether, but I don't know. There's a YouTube video somewhere. Supposedly installing Windows 7 clean with all the drivers from the Lenovo web-site is not the same. Not that you'll get a Windows 7 CD with the machine. There will be a recovery partition that allows you to burn some DVDs to restore the complete preload.

Bear in mind these times are with an SSD, so fast booting is expected. I wasn't that impressed, but have no regular Windows 7 numbers to compare it to. A Macbook with an SSD (Intel X25-M, 34mm, 160GB) will boot Leopard in about 10 seconds.

There will be a slew of Lenovo apps on the machine. I'm in two minds about them. Many of them have been historically useful, such as power management utilities and IBM access connections, which manages network location profiles. However Lenovo have said themselves that much of this functionality is now standard in Windows 7. They're finding it hard to add further value. Personally I dislike programs where settings you make in the OS and some Lenovo program can end up fighting with each other. Take this with a pinch of salt, I'm just not a user of those programs.

You've never used a trackpoint? There are two main advantages. One, you never run out of space (e.g. with the trackpad you might run up against the edge). This is especially useful for dragging. Two, your fingers remain closer to the typing position. Oh and, three, you can safely rest your palm on the touchpad (for me the only truly working palm-check is on Macbooks).

The middle button is for scrolling. One problem: The scrolling function hasn't changed in years and the integration, done by IBM, isn't perfect. There can be strange jumps in MS-Word sometimes and for Java apps it may not work at all. It's also not as flexible, what with all the gestures you can now do on a touchpad. On the other hand the only touchpad that has worked consistently well for me (gestures always work, yet there are no nasty palm-check issues) has been on a Macbook under OS X.

Hey, I'm a Thinkpad fan, but I'll still let you know the cons as well.

FragrantHead wrote:You've never used a trackpoint?

I think some people are just trackpoint people and take to it right away, just like some people are trackball people. Others like myself have to learn it, but once I got my X200, I really had no choice. When my X220 gets here, I'll probably disable the touchpad. I'm probably now equally good with both, but I don't foresee the buttonless trackpad working well. I didn't like it on the MBP and other notebooks I've seen with a similar setup, but I'll give it a whirl when I get it.

I don't truly favor one over the other. Had a trackball many years ago, which was very good ... when it worked. It was mechanical and needed frequent cleaning.

I'm happy to work a touchpad without buttons, not even the full surface button.

Left click = tap
Drag = double tap and hold
Right click = two finger tap
Scroll = two finger swipe

Only my Macbook could tell those reliably apart and implement a working palm-check though. The touchpad of the T410s is an unresponsive piece of garbage by comparison, at least when it comes to multi-touch, and it's meant to be one of the better Windows-based ones. Hence sticking with the trackpoint on the Thinkpad.

even a macbook pro running windows has a [censored] touchpad. its all in the drivers.
ubuntu is flawless with a T420, as good as OSX i'd say. but i hate OSX and have not used it in over a year, so....who knows what they've done lately.

blackomegax wrote:*****Expletives removed by Moderator*****

OT: What's the point of this when there's "enable word censoring" (disabling it is a no-op) in display options?

I never got the trackpoint working well in Linux. And when I configured it to be half-decent, the touchpad (T60) was unusably fast.

The trackpoint is only really good as long as the cap is new. They deteriorate way too quickly.

They don't deliver the old "cat's tongue" caps as standard anymore, do they? I find the new rubber caps a bit more slippery, even when new.

how does that one look like? my X201T came with three different caps.

Originally this was a thread about processors, and now we are discussing trackpoints. All is good, so long as we limit this to the x220, which is the laptop I asked the question about.

I read on the lenovo forums that many people experience a fan noise issue with the x220. Every few seconds the fan revs up and then back down. They say this happens always; in bios, in windows, in linux. Are there any here who have an x220 and experience this problem?