Thinkpads Forum

zern wrote: I totally agree!!! Engadget is one of these sites. See link in my original post.
Read through some of the comments around this issue on that link. The X220 got 8/10 instead of the 9/10 many felt it deserved, simply because it did not have an Apple logo on it.

And of course, plenty of Apple fan boys ignorantly decrying the "ugliness" of the X220. Because of course "design" is ONLY about the shallow surface look - fashion, prettiness, and bling. Gag.

Actually, most real Apple laptop fans wish that Apple would license some of the ThinkPad design features for the MacBooks. I've read many Apple users wishing for a Trackpoint, or for ThinkPad-like docking (sort of remedied with the new ThunderBolt port).

I've been an Apple user since 1992 and a ThinkPad user from 1989 through 2008, and soon again when my X220i arrives. Funny thing is that on the various Apple forums there is something of a universal admiration of the ThinkPad design and its ergonomics. This makes perfect sense as Apple and IBM, now Lenovo are clearly selling a high-end product aimed at discerning users. Yes, there are very different design philosophies behind them, but still quality shows and you get what you pay for.

I am very excited about running an X220i (military) alongside my 11.6" MacBook Air (business) and 15.4" MacBook Pro (personal).

That's good to hear that there are still discerning consumers out there.

Many of the Mac users I have encountered inevitably make a point of saying how "ugly" the thinkpad is - it's like a religious thing - they just have to disparage someone else's choice/opinion to validate their own. And we can see it everywhere online, even where Macs were not specifically mentioned.

A lot of Apple's policies make me dubious about their commitment to a stable platform. The way they touted the Firewire port, then removed it from some of the MacBooks, then brought it back for some of them. The way they dumped their x-server platform with a few month's notice and at the same time recommended businesses switch to using consumer-grade Mac Minis as servers. And worst of all the continual arrogant practice of blaming the users first for everything that goes awry.

Macs are great if nothing goes wrong. As soon as they do, you're on your own. And if you dared complain about it, you get flamed by the fans. That is what prompted me to switch to thinkpads 13 years ago. Never looked back!

zern wrote:That's good to hear that there are still discerning consumers out there.

Many of the Mac users I have encountered inevitably make a point of saying how "ugly" the thinkpad is - it's like a religious thing - they just have to disparage someone else's choice/opinion to validate their own. And we can see it everywhere online, even where Macs were not specifically mentioned.

A lot of Apple's policies make me dubious about their commitment to a stable platform. The way they touted the Firewire port, then removed it from some of the MacBooks, then brought it back for some of them. The way they dumped their x-server platform with a few month's notice and at the same time recommended businesses switch to using consumer-grade Mac Minis as servers. And worst of all the continual arrogant practice of blaming the users first for everything that goes awry.

Macs are great if nothing goes wrong. As soon as they do, you're on your own. And if you dared complain about it, you get flamed by the fans. That is what prompted me to switch to thinkpads 13 years ago. Never looked back!

13 years is an eternity to "never look back", and hardly indicative of anything going on today.

XServe was never a sales success, which is why it was discontinued. The Mac Mini Server was one of TWO recommendations for XServe customers, the other being the Mac Pro, which is definitely NOT consumer-grade.

FireWire was taken off some of the consumer models and of course the ultraportable Air, but has never been removed from the MacBook Pro, and with ThunderBolt is now available on the Air as well.

As for blaming users, well only if you believe everything you read on the internet. Only the users with complaints go posting on forums, while those who were well served by Apple (or Lenovo, HP or anyone else) tend to just enjoy their gear without praising it on forums. Apple gear is far from perfect, but Apple, in my experience, always stood behind its stuff. I've had them replace MacBooks (original 2006 model overheated and replaced 3 times without much grief), iPad (wifi didn't work) and a MacBook Pro (last non-unibody, nVidia graphics issues). Nobody ever said it was a user issue in any of those instances.

As far as religious zeal of users, that too was pretty obnoxious 13-years-ago, and is actually quite the opposite today with the anti-Apple crowd far more zealous in its criticism than Apple fans ever were back in the day.

asiafish wrote:As far as religious zeal of users, that too was pretty obnoxious 13-years-ago, and is actually quite the opposite today with the anti-Apple crowd far more zealous in its criticism than Apple fans ever were back in the day.

That is a good and true point. Although one might say that the Apple fans are reaping the fruit of their own snobbishness of past.

dr_st wrote: That is a good and true point. Although one might say that the Apple fans are reaping the fruit of their own snobbishness of past.

I think its more that very few of those zealous nutjobs remain on the Apple platform, and that the anti-Apple crowd for whatever reason take it personally that someone might want to buy something on a different platform than theirs.

Actually, its the Linux crowd that seems the most militant of all these days, harping endlessly that open source is the best and only way to go, when in fact no one platform works for everyone and not everyone can substitute open applications for the commercial programs they currently use.

asiafish wrote: Actually, its the Linux crowd that seems the most militant of all these days, harping endlessly that open source is the best and only way to go, when in fact no one platform works for everyone and not everyone can substitute open applications for the commercial programs they currently use.

I won't describe them as militant, but zealots? Definitely. They don't remind me of, say, an angry dude with an NRA bumper sticker as much as that dude at that party that just wouldn't shut up about how awesome Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon is.

There are fanboys for every platform though. It's best just to ignore them, regardless of their platform of choice. Make your choices based on technical merit, not the fringes of the community. By all means consider community support for a given solution -- but don't pay attention to the extreme outer edges.

zern wrote:* the yellow USB port with the sleep-and-charge function delivers a lower current. In our test, a few external USB 2.5 inch storage devices refused to run on that port.
----- Will this be annoying in real life?

The reason why this was listed as a shortcoming is probably that the testers have insufficient knowledge of USB. USB ports are defined as being able to supply a current of .5 A. Most 2.5" hard drives require 1 A or more just in order to start up. So it shouldn't be expected that one single USB port would be able to power an external hard disk. Some manufacturers of external hard drives try to circumvent the problem by supplying a Y-cable, which taps 2 USB receptacles for current. I suppose that all USB ports on the X220 meet requirements.

TTY wrote:The reason why this was listed as a shortcoming is probably that the testers have insufficient knowledge of USB. USB ports are defined as being able to supply a current of .5 A. Most 2.5" hard drives require 1 A or more just in order to start up. So it shouldn't be expected that one single USB port would be able to power an external hard disk. Some manufacturers of external hard drives try to circumvent the problem by supplying a Y-cable, which taps 2 USB receptacles for current. I suppose that all USB ports on the X220 meet requirements.

The other gotcha is that there is a second, lower current cap (much lower than 500 mA) for devices that have not negotiated with the host. When the laptop is asleep, said negotiation can't take place, so I'm betting that spec-compliant devices will be pulling much, much less than 500 mA.

After all the umming and ahhing I went with a T420s

The coupon made it only $200 more than my X220 config. And that got me the Nvidia discreet graphics and 1600x900. (and a bigger/heavier case - can't have everything.) I should be a MASSIVE step up from my T60p.

zern wrote:After all the umming and ahhing I went with a T420s

The coupon made it only $200 more than my X220 config. And that got me the Nvidia discreet graphics and 1600x900. (and a bigger/heavier case - can't have everything.) I should be a MASSIVE step up from my T60p.

Most definitely.

zern wrote:* bottom display border is flexible and prone to an ugly (pic on the site) bulge in the material if left to heat up under direct sun.

Yes. I left it open on my desk where the sun shines every morning for a while. It has exactly the same effect. My old X31 has been on the same place for several years without any problem. I'm wondering whether replacing the screen bezel helps. I don't think so since it is probably made from the same material.

zern wrote:* VGA output quality is poor. The picture quality is blurry. ----- serious concern as I will be relying on external monitors more given the low on-board screen resolution.

It has always been like that. I can't remember any videocard except Matrox having good quality VGA output. That's why digital interfaces have been made for. By using all these horrible "ClearType" technologies you can get even the same blurry output with digital interface

I like Cleartype.

dr_st wrote:I like Cleartype.

Sub-pixel antialiasing can look absolutely great when implemented and configured correctly, and incredibly, distractingly bad when not.

Personally I don't use it on my workstation because I'm too lazy to build the requisite packages (and I don't care that much), but when it's available out of the box I will.

zern wrote:* bottom display border is flexible and prone to an ugly (pic on the site) bulge in the material if left to heat up under direct sun.

I'm wondering whether someone the got screen bezel replacement because of this issue ? Is it less sensitive than the original bezel ? I guess that it does not make a sense to ask for replacement if the new one would be from the same material so the issue will occur over and over. My X220 was made in 03/2012 and still have the issue so I don't think there is an updated bezel anyway.

Annoying though the bezel issue is, maybe it is one of those "I guess we have to live with it till the next upgrade" issue?? Not dismissing your annoyance of course - I would be annoyed too.

X230 must be around the corner? Weren't there leaked pics recently? Perhaps for the sake of your "mental wellbeing" you really HAVE to upgrade?

Puppy wrote:My X220 was made in 03/2012 and still have the issue so I don't think there is an updated bezel anyway.

The FRU number for the screen bezel assembly on the Lenovo support site is different from the corresponding FRU number in the HMM ver. 5 (March 2012), so to me, it seems as if an updated bezel might be available. The FRU number on the Lenovo support site is 04W1404.

In the HW32, we noticed quite early that the processor speed constantly changed between 3,2 to 2.8 GHz and 2.5 GHz down to 800 MHz

Thats what its supposed to do, it's called speed stepping. Thats how laptops are supposed to perform. I wouldn't want a laptop that was always clocked at maximum. It would render battery life obsolete.

zern wrote:* the left one-third area of the keyboard can be bent inwards.

Maybe I'm just having bad luck but the first keyboard had problem with middle trackpoint button. Today I got a new keyboard from Lenovo. After few hours Backspace and Enter keys started to make annoying squeaking noise (much louder than space bar), especially when pressed slowly in right bottom corner. None of my old ThinkPads keyboard have similar problem. I doubt I'll get another keyboard again.