Thinkpads Forum

Hi,

Due to changes in my daily commuting habits I am considering in exchanging my current notebook (Macbook pro 13inch) with a smaller&lighter device. As I am currently using both operating systems (more or less equally) that question is not part of my question and therefore irrelevant. I'm purely interested into the hardware with my question.

As I have to commute around 2hours per way I am currently seeking a lighter option to my current machine. As I'll leave home early and return quite late my device has to last at least for 6-8 hours with usage of the usual office/web/statistics&modeling tools while also not weighting more then lets say 1.5kg/3.3lb. Ideally I want to leave the power brick at home and do not carry it since they are taking additional space.

Therefore as candidates I am interested into a Macbook Air 13inch and the X220 i5-2520, 9cell solutions since both are the best of their classes, so to speak. As I know Thinkpads & Mac's I won't ask bout the keyboards since both are great to use.

therefore my questions:
1) As I know from seeing people using older X2xx models I can already tell that the screen is really neat to work with since it's not glossy like the Apple devices but i wonder if the reduced resolution could be described as bothersome? How is it to work longer hours on a smaller screen?
2) I read that the 9cell lasts around 12hours, if true this would definitely fulfill my daily requirement but I would also like to know from actual users if this figure is accurate since the tests are all based on not that realistic routines. I am aware of the roughly 6hours usage time of the Air but since it does fit into my list of requirement I could accept 6 hours, since finding a plug at the university for a mac is not that difficult, whilst finding one for a Thinkpad could proof a bit more difficult.
3) As the device will travel frequent (near future domestically,later also on personal trips) I am wondering if the X220 is also sturdy enough to travel in a big backpack. The mac is super slim but I'm a bit worried about it's sturdiness.
4) wwan: the model i'm looking at, has wwan, so i could be online wherever I want. how is the reception? and how can the power consumption be described? currently i am in possession of a second iPhone contract with a 1gb data volume, i guess i should be able to use that sim to use the 1gb of traffic (not used is same as waisted i guess).
5) Touchpad: is it good? i read some good stuff bout it and some so-so stuff bout it, I wonder how you guys feel about it. I can imagine it might not be as mighty as the touchpad of the mac device but thats not so much my concern. I just don't want my mouse curser jump around while writing my papers
6) Spill: is that really true that the keyboard will survive coffee? my friend just killed her macbook pro by spilling coffee over it.
7) Harddrive: I thought of getting myself a SSD and replace the original drive before I start loading all my stuff on my notebook, therefore I would like to ask how I can transfer everything on the new drive without a big hustle... and more importantly does it make sense? are there 240-256gb drives that are 7mm thick?
8) Webcam: as my girlfriend is currently studying in France for the next year I need a decent webcam for talking, I can assume that the cam of the X220 is decent?
last but not least:
9) the yellow usb: can i charge my iPhone over it if necessary while keeping the device in hibernation mode?

I thank you guys for your responses!!

The display size is different, see it here: www.displaywars.com

The six cell battery should give you six hours of battery life. This is comparable to macbook air. The nine cell battery sticks out at the bottom and makes the notebook noticeably heavier than the air.

The x220 is much more rugged. If water falls on the keyboard, immediately turn off power, the power coard and the battery without moving the notebook. At least never move it vertically so the water goes right through the water holes and does not go to the mainboard. This is not easy to do. About coffee - this is a harder job for the x220!

The x220 is much thicker, and it is not eye candy at all compared to the air.

Touchpad is not as good as the one of the air.

In your situation if you work on the notebook when you are not travelling, buy a docking station and a monitor / keyboard / mouse. The cheapest available here with the exception of the keyboard will give you a much better user experience than using the notebook alone.


Bottom line: I was thinking of also getting an air or a x220 for a while. The air is just not rugged enough for everyday use. You always have to take care for it, you can not just put it anywhere. It is something beautiful you have to take care of. As a tool for a road warrior I doubt it will survive a modest "road warrior life".

dorukg wrote:1) As I know from seeing people using older X2xx models I can already tell that the screen is really neat to work with since it's not glossy like the Apple devices but i wonder if the reduced resolution could be described as bothersome? How is it to work longer hours on a smaller screen?

The reduced resolution can definitely be a deal-breaker in some cases, no doubt about that. Then again, 1440x900 on 12" might also be. Tough choices.

dorukg wrote:2) I read that the 9cell lasts around 12hours, if true this would definitely fulfill my daily requirement but I would also like to know from actual users if this figure is accurate since the tests are all based on not that realistic routines. I am aware of the roughly 6hours usage time of the Air but since it does fit into my list of requirement I could accept 6 hours, since finding a plug at the university for a mac is not that difficult, whilst finding one for a Thinkpad could proof a bit more difficult.

What? No Thinkpad plugs at the University of Zurich? Well then, hop across the street to ETH - there should be plenty of them there!

dorukg wrote:5) Touchpad: is it good? i read some good stuff bout it and some so-so stuff bout it, I wonder how you guys feel about it. I can imagine it might not be as mighty as the touchpad of the mac device but thats not so much my concern. I just don't want my mouse curser jump around while writing my papers

I never use a touchpad myself (being a trackpoint person), but the consensus seems to be that while Lenovo's touchpads are not as good as those on a Mac, they are still very good when compared to touchpads on other laptops. The built-in software on a Thinkpad allows for high customizations of the touchpad - sensitivity, special zones, multi-touch gestures, etc. The Macs still seem to be in a league of their own.

ssd_thinkpad wrote:Touchpad is not as good as the one of the air.

What! The right Thinkpad is just as much eye candy as a Mac is, and the X220 is sure is the right one (at least with the non-protruding battery).

I can imagine it might not be as mighty as the touchpad of the mac device but thats not so much my concern.

Ahhh... marketing! Lenovo and Apple both use Synaptics touchpads. The sensing hardware is virtually identical.

The surface is different, and as to which is better... well... that's a matter of personal preference. I like the textured surface more, but I rarely use the touchpad, so I'm probably not the best judge.

The X220's screen is better, hands-down (assuming you're comparing the IPS option).

Regarding build quality: I've only played with demo units, but I will say this: the X220 is one of the sturdiest, sleekest-designed ThinkPad ultra-portables I've seen. The units I tried seemed quite strong indeed despite their light weight. Conversely, every time I've handled one of the ultra-portable MBAs, I've felt afraid of warping the case. I know that's probably not likely, but that was certainly what it felt like.

Keep in mind: aluminium can bend and will stay bent. If you deform the casing of the MBA, too bad. The X220 is less prone to this, plus individual bits of the chassis are replaceable -- so if there is damage, you have a much cheaper option than "pay Apple for a new machine."

the yellow usb: can i charge my iPhone over it if necessary while keeping the device in hibernation mode?

Yes, but obviously that will draw power.

How is it to work longer hours on a smaller screen?

I used to work 8+ hours a day on an XGA screen (i.e. 1024x768). It depends entirely on what you're doing. Mostly text, and using software that doesn't vomit toolbars all over the place? No problem.

The mac is super slim but I'm a bit worried about it's sturdiness.

Slim computers are great for impressing an audience at a product demonstration. If you intend to use the machine for something else, I'd recommend you don't worry about how thin or thick a laptop is, and instead focus on features, durability, and after-sales support.

If you're traveling a lot, you might also want to consider whether a sealed-in battery is a good idea. There's something to be said for the ability to swap in a new battery in the middle of a long flight. There's also something to be said for having to send your computer back to the manufacturer and pay $100 when the battery dies... usually something quite profane.

One final thing: I've used Apple and IBM (and later Lenovo) computers for many, many, many years. Apple's support has been, in my experience, far more adversarial than Lenovo's. Heaven help you if you purchase a Mac laptop and open the case: you can kiss your warranty goodbye. If you have a Lenovo laptop, not only can you get individual parts and do in-warranty replacements yourself, but Lenovo actually publishes step-by-step guides and even videos on how to do the replacements. That counts for a lot in my book, although YMMV.

I know ETH Zurich is loaded with Thinkpad users but I'm not studying in Zurich and unfortunately at my Business School people tend to use more shiny objects with glossier screens with a fruit logo or some other so-so brands that have glossy screens like Sony or Samsung. Thinkpads are unfortunately quite rare these days. Thats also why the battery has to make it through at least for 8 hours of work load.

Screen Matter:
Are the non IPS screens bad? I read some articles and the result for me is not conclusive, does it make sense to get that screen for a normal user or not. Because I think the two X220 offers from my Student-IT broker do not have that screen and ordering a x220 customized in Switzerland costs like 2300 USD or more ...

Fan Noise:
totally forgot this aspect, can you hear the fan noise when the device is running? air is fan less so no issues there my macbook pro sometimes gets nasty loud so I would appreciate it to keep this issue small ...

You can order from lenovo.com with all the ecoupons, pay by amazon checkout, deliver it to your borderlinx.com us address.

All panels from lenovo with the exception of the 15 inch (only HD+, FHD) and 12 inch (only IPS Premium) can be described from worse to "average".

ThinkRob wrote:Keep in mind: aluminium can bend and will stay bent. If you deform the casing of the MBA, too bad. The X220 is less prone to this, plus individual bits of the chassis are replaceable -- so if there is damage, you have a much cheaper option than "pay Apple for a new machine."

Very good point! I had the opportunity to see a couple of the HP Elitebook aluminium models, with dents in the lid. It's funny to have a laptop look like a slightly beat-up automobile. With plastic it won't happen. Of course, the plastic can break, but like you said, most of the parts can be replaced individually without too much hassle.

ThinkRob wrote:Yes, but obviously that will draw power.

I know that previous generations would not allow charging on the always-on port if the machine is off and unplugged. Not sure about standby mode.

ssd_thinkpad wrote:All panels from lenovo with the exception of the 15 inch (only HD+, FHD) and 12 inch (only IPS Premium) can be described from worse to "average".

I believe you. On the other hand, do other laptop brands have good 13" and 14" panels? I played with a (13-inch) Sony Z Series briefly the other day but didn't look at the screen closely enough.

Macbook Pros have good display panels.

ssd_thinkpad wrote:Macbook Pros have good display panels.

Sorry, I meant 16:9 ones, the ones that PC laptops use. Any good 13.* or 14.*-inch 16:9 laptop panels? I have heard more than a few people say that there aren't any good (i.e. better than "decent") 14.*-inch 16:9 panels.

IPS and VA panels are good. But there are only 12.5 IPS panels from lenovo available. And there are 15.6 IPS displays available from HP.

The only good TN panels I know of are the FHD and HD+ from the T520/W520. All these panels are 16:9.

ssd_thinkpad wrote:The only good TN panels I know of are the FHD and HD+ from the T520/W520. All these panels are 16:9.

The WSXGA+ 15.4" many of the earlier Lenovo Thinkpads used were quite good a well, in comparison.

dr_st wrote:The WSXGA+ 15.4" many of the earlier Lenovo Thinkpads used were quite good a well, in comparison.

Yes, I have seen the wsxga+ in a T500 and was impressed with the panel quality.

ssd_thinkpad wrote:You can order from lenovo.com with all the ecoupons, pay by amazon checkout, deliver it to your borderlinx.com us address.

All panels from lenovo with the exception of the 15 inch (only HD+, FHD) and 12 inch (only IPS Premium) can be described from worse to "average".

How does that Borderlinx.com thing work? is it safe?

ssd_thinkpad wrote:Macbook Pros have good display panels.

I know I'm using one right now. But honestly working with it is not always a pleasure because it sometimes is comparable to a mirror ... As I often sit around a window, in the train or also outside the MacbookPro/air screen is quite a deal breaker. As I already have a decent screen at home I'm wondering if the regular screen of the X220 is not sufficient enough already for using on the road while for picture&video stuff I'll be hooking it up to my stationary one anyways (what I also do with my Mac,more real estate is nice).

dorukg wrote:I know I'm using one right now. But honestly working with it is not always a pleasure because it sometimes is comparable to a mirror ... As I often sit around a window, in the train or also outside the MacbookPro/air screen is quite a deal breaker. As I already have a decent screen at home I'm wondering if the regular screen of the X220 is not sufficient enough already for using on the road while for picture&video stuff I'll be hooking it up to my stationary one anyways (what I also do with my Mac,more real estate is nice).

I'm using an ipad for train commuting at the moment, often watching videos, and it can be a real problem. Working on it, email, reading text it is even harder.

The x220 IPS screen is beautiful, and is easily viewed from all angles. I've come from a Vaio Z and although it had a really bright, rich screen, it had to be constantly adjusted to be viewed EXACTLY straight on, otherwise colour and brightness varied.

If you're hooking up to another screen at home, as I do, then the x220 will drive 2560x1600 display (don't know about the Mac in this respect).

Hope this helps.

S

And the Oscar goes to..... Thinkpad X220 For Sturdiness, reliability, performance, design and support! All of comments here are telling their own part of the truth.

Just want to share my views with you guys. I owned the X220 i7 model. I really like the matte screen and how cool the laptop stays. I sold it off because the 16:9 screen solution is not very productive at all. For example, when writing papers, I could only see very little vertically. The only new portable laptop I can find with 16:10 radio is the MBA, being also a higher resolution at 1440:900, it would be the best screen for me in terms of productivity. (wish it was matte too)
I agree with most people here that lenovo has good service.. although my x220 was poorly made, it has a lot of backlight screen bleed, the front lid is not made flat and has a bump near the thinkpad logo. I tried to contact lenovo for exchange due to poor QC, but they refused to do anything for me, and the customer service here in Sydney here is terrible. (They returned my call after 7+ days).... Having said that if you had screen bleed in the case of ipad 2, apple can replace you with a new one happilyl. I used to find lenovo service top-notch when I had my x201T, i just feel that they are not the same anymore......

One more point, yes you dun get replaceable battery in the MBAs, but their recharge time is quicker... send them in for replacement may cost you 100 dollars, but the thinkpad x220 6 cell battery cost more.....

Having to send in your entire device for battery replacement...

Seriously... you put up with that?

I read this interesting article recently:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Jul ... nSpam.html

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:Having to send in your entire device for battery replacement...

Seriously... you put up with that?

Nope, I'd replace it myself. I've have had every model of MAC laptop down to screws and parts since the G3's. It's not THAT difficult. Just because Apple says to do something their way doesn't mean that's the ONLY way. I will say this though...Apple laptops are much more fragile internally than Thinkpads. Thinkpads are built like Mac trucks compared to Apple laptops. Big hefty screws vs. jewelers sized screws. Durable solid plastic connectors vs. tiny ribbon ZIF connectors. Main components are generally much easier to replace (RAM and hard drives), ...on and on.

I own the 11" MacBook Air (newest Sandy Bridge version) and had the previous Core2Duo 13" (passed down to an employee). I haven't owned a ThinkPad since the T400 and X41, but just bought an X220i for my military duties (I am an Army reserve company commander).

Compared to my old ThinkPads, the MacBook Airs are of equal build quality. While I was initially concerned, the unibody MacBooks have proven extremely durable for me, and I've been carrying one everywhere I go for the last three years with no issues. The older non-unibody aluminum Macs were far more delicate, and once I dropped a 12" PowerBook a whopping 3" and was rewarded with a nice $400 dent in the bottom. Of course, my X32 case cracked without any drop required, so nothing is perfect.

I'm excited about getting the X220i and anticipate using it for most of my overnight travel in place of the MacBook Air, which has only 5 hours battery life. I also have long preferred the feel of ThinkPad TrackPoints over any touch pad, though Apple's touchpad is far less annoying than any other I've tried.

Honestly, I think the choice really comes down to operating system. If you want to use Windows as your only OS, then ThinkPads are likely still the best. If you want to use OS X, the Air is an awesome machine. The army has all sorts of things that are Windows only, while my business has a primary app that is OS X or iOS only. Since I can access that application on my iPhone or iPad, my choice of Windows or OS X really comes down to whether the trip is long enough that I will want to take military online courses or not.

Of course, you can run Windows on a Mac either through boot camp (native) or emulation, but since both my business (legal) and military work are confidential, I prefer to keep them on separate machine.

asiafish wrote: Honestly, I think the choice really comes down to operating system. If you want to use Windows as your only OS, then ThinkPads are likely still the best. If you want to use OS X, the Air is an awesome machine. The army has all sorts of things that are Windows only, while my business has a primary app that is OS X or iOS only. Since I can access that application on my iPhone or iPad, my choice of Windows or OS X really comes down to whether the trip is long enough that I will want to take military online courses or not.

Well there are two other (possibly) major points:

1) Linux support. Apple's hardware is typically not-as-friendly towards Linux. Obviously this is completely irrelevant if you don't use Linux.

2) Upgradeability. You can upgrade the X220. You can't really upgrade the Air.

Good luck with your X220. I hope you enjoy it!

ThinkRob wrote: Well there are two other (possibly) major points:

1) Linux support. Apple's hardware is typically not-as-friendly towards Linux. Obviously this is completely irrelevant if you don't use Linux.

2) Upgradeability. You can upgrade the X220. You can't really upgrade the Air.

Good luck with your X220. I hope you enjoy it!

I can't use Linux either for business or military. For business, there is not a single word processor on any platform that will import a legal pleading from any other program without breaking some or all of the formatting. Since the files I work with collaborate on and exchange with others are in MS Word .docx, that limits me to Windows or Mac. Emulation, VM or WINE is just far more complexity than I am willing to put up with, especially when Word for Windows and Word for Mac open all of my legal pleadings without any such issues.

For the military Linux is also a non-started because of the Windows-only forms program and CAC card authentication software the army insists on.

Upgradability is really a non-issue. By the time my Air is obsolete (I have the 1.6 GHz i5 with 4GB RAM) I will want a new machine anyway. RAM cannot upgrade, but SSD most definitely can. The only thing I can upgrade on the X220 higher than I can on the Air is RAM, and OS X honestly does as well with 2GB for what I do as it would 8GB. The 4 GB I have is overkill.

asiafish wrote:RAM cannot upgrade, but SSD most definitely can. The only thing I can upgrade on the X220 higher than I can on the Air is RAM, and OS X honestly does as well with 2GB for what I do as it would 8GB. The 4 GB I have is overkill.

I still don't understand why so many people claim they need more than 4GB of RAM. On my main computer (a Dell Precision 390 desktop with 4GB RAM and Core2 Quad and running 64bit Vista), I sometimes have over 20 windows covering all of my four monitors totaling 11 megapixels and the computer still doesn't seem to slow down significantly. My Toughbook Y5, which runs XP Pro, has only 1.5GB and Core Duo and I don't feel any need to upgrade, even though it could go up to 2.5GB RAM (which I didn't realize until several days ago, because Panasonic's official documents state 1.5GB as the limit).

But storage upgradeability is important indeed. One of the many reasons I prefer desktops over laptops is that I need terabytes of internal storage and laptop hard drives are just too small. I wish the prices of 3TB HDDs would drop faster!

pianowizard wrote: I still don't understand why so many people claim they need more than 4GB of RAM. On my main computer (a Dell Precision 390 desktop with 4GB RAM and Core2 Quad and running 64bit Vista), I sometimes have over 20 windows covering all of my four monitors totaling 11 megapixels and the computer still doesn't seem to slow down significantly. My Toughbook Y5, which runs XP Pro, has only 1.5GB and Core Duo and I don't feel any need to upgrade, even though it could go up to 2.5GB RAM (which I didn't realize until several days ago, because Panasonic's official documents state 1.5GB as the limit).

But storage upgradeability is important indeed. One of the many reasons I prefer desktops over laptops is that I need terabytes of internal storage and laptop hard drives are just too small. I wish the prices of 3TB HDDs would drop faster!

The new ThunderBolt port is very promising for storage. In theory, an 11" MacBook Air can connect to massive desktop RAID arrays at speeds faster than SATA. It is also fully compatible with FireWire 800, eSATA and USB3 storage, and like FireWire it can daisy-chain. So, you can have a little 2.3 lb laptop that can instantly connect to large screen monitors and storage at desktop-class speeds with server-grade error correction when at the office, and still have a 2.3 lb package for the road. ThunderBolt, or even FireWire are so fast (FireWire 400 is faster in real world than USB 2, 800 is twice that) that don't even wish for a desktop for anything I do, and haven't owned one myself for over a decade.

Desktops still have their uses, of course, but the lack of portability means I only buy them for employees I don't want bringing their machines home.

asiafish wrote: Upgradability is really a non-issue. By the time my Air is obsolete (I have the 1.6 GHz i5 with 4GB RAM) I will want a new machine anyway. RAM cannot upgrade, but SSD most definitely can. The only thing I can upgrade on the X220 higher than I can on the Air is RAM, and OS X honestly does as well with 2GB for what I do as it would 8GB. The 4 GB I have is overkill.

Hey, I didn't mean that it was important for you in particular, just that it was a point worth considering for a lot of people.

Also, the removable battery, availability of a docking station, presence of additional ports, etc. are also subsumed under expandability/upgradeability.

Expandability can also be put in Apple's favor through the sheer number of older protocols carried on that single ThunderBolt port. Apple's 27" ThunderBolt display is a stunning IPS screen with a built-in high-quality speaker system, webcam, FireWire 800,eSATA, USB, gigabit Ethernet, ANOTHER THUNDERBOLT port and of course the video (displayport) all carried on a single cable. You could connect a fast RAID storage array, your keyboard and mouse, a second display, wired Ethernet, a bunch of USB devices and a FireWire 800 drive to a 2.3 lb MacBook Air with a single wire.

Yes, the X220 has far more and better battery options, but of course it had better given its thicker body and higher weight.

Personally, I'll call expandability a draw on these two, give the Air the edge in portability and build quality, and give the ThinkPad the edge in battery versatility and durability.

asiafish wrote:Expandability can also be put in Apple's favor through the sheer number of older protocols carried on that single ThunderBolt port. Apple's 27" ThunderBolt display is a stunning IPS screen with a built-in high-quality speaker system, webcam, FireWire 800,eSATA, USB, gigabit Ethernet, ANOTHER THUNDERBOLT port and of course the video (displayport) all carried on a single cable.

That will soon be the case, but not yet. There's not enough support for Thunderbolt for it to be anywhere close to as useful. Yes, there are adapters -- but that's an additional expense.

Don't get me wrong, I think Lightpeak is really great tech, but at the moment it's not very widely-supported. We're just barely starting to get USB 3.0 support, and that's been out for a while.

ThinkRob wrote: That will soon be the case, but not yet. There's not enough support for Thunderbolt for it to be anywhere close to as useful. Yes, there are adapters -- but that's an additional expense.

Don't get me wrong, I think Lightpeak is really great tech, but at the moment it's not very widely-supported. We're just barely starting to get USB 3.0 support, and that's been out for a while.

The one important piece that is already out is that ThunderBolt display, the rest will come.

As for USB3, I think it is like laserdisc in that it may get some traction, but will never become mainstream. USB, which uses the CPU for control is just too inefficient compared to technologies like FireWire and ThunderBolt that have their own controllers and as a result much faster and more consistent throughput.

As far as additional expense, thats the same complaint people have about displayport vs separate VGA, DVI and HDMI ports. Personally, I'll pay the $30 for the adapter rather than carry a bulkier laptop with multiple ports.